This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.

Author Topic: " Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"  (Read 8513 times)

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 13852
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2019, 09:32:52 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1100150
also I want witch doctors who can command the Lightning!

Check out Spears of the Dawn RPG by Kevin Crawford!
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/110293/Spears-of-the-Dawn

Aglondir

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2019, 10:23:41 PM »
Decolonialization of the Ranger?

Quote from: 3E
Favored Enemy (Ex)

At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2.

If the ranger chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.



Quote from: 5E
Favored Enemy

Beginning at 1st level, you have significant experience studying, tracking, hunting, and even talking to a certain type of enemy. Choose a type of favored enemy: aberrations, beasts, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, giants, monstrosities, oozes, plants, or undead. Alternatively, you can select two races of humanoid (such as gnolls and orcs) as favored enemies.

You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track your favored enemies, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them. When you gain this feature, you also learn one language of your choice that is spoken by your favored enemies, if they speak one at all. You choose on additional favored enemy as well as an associated language, at 6th and 14th level. As you gain levels, your choices should reflect the types of monsters you have encountered on your adventures.


(emphasis mine).

If we buy into the colonialism theory, the 3E Ranger looks like a genocidal maniac, but the 5E Ranger is just a racist. It depends on which enemy you chose, and which enemies are considered protected classes. Probably the bolded ones-- I doubt elementals or dragons have any colonial baggage. Interesting that the combat bonus didn't make it from 3E to 5E. Can someone chime in on what the 4E Ranger does? I don't have those books.

I'm calling it now: Favored Enemy will not make it into 6E.
I know it's hard to keep an open heart,
When even friends seem out to harm you.
But if you could heal a broken heart,
Wouldn't time be out to charm you?

- Axl Rose, "November Rain"

Charon's Little Helper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 502
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2019, 10:28:53 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1100089
Not gonna read their BS but do they also compare Goblins with Jews? because that's another favorite of the white progressive.


Wait... what? I don't even see how goblins fit with any negative stereotypes of Jews. Goblins aren't generally thought of as accountants, retail clothing entrepreneurs, and doctors. :P

Aglondir

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2019, 10:49:06 PM »
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1100184
Wait... what? I don't even see how goblins fit with any negative stereotypes of Jews. Goblins aren't generally thought of as accountants, retail clothing entrepreneurs, and doctors. :P


Harry Potter's Goblins, but it's been debunked.

Quote
The goblins, especially as depicted in the movies, are universally hooked nosed, short, unattractive, and green. …Professor Binns' soporific History of Magic lectures tell tales of centuries of goblin oppression, segregation, mistrust, bad relations, exclusion, and revolts. Sound like any European ethnic minority you know? That's right, Rowlings' depiction of goblins reflects the type of stereotypes that are more fitting for Russia in the late 19th century or a second rate Gazan newspaper.


https://www.quora.com/Are-the-goblins-in-Harry-Potter-an-antisemitic-reference-to-Jews
I know it's hard to keep an open heart,
When even friends seem out to harm you.
But if you could heal a broken heart,
Wouldn't time be out to charm you?

- Axl Rose, "November Rain"

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2415
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2019, 10:49:57 PM »
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1100184
Wait... what? I don't even see how goblins fit with any negative stereotypes of Jews. Goblins aren't generally thought of as accountants, retail clothing entrepreneurs, and doctors. :P

Beats me, but then again I'm not a white progressive anti-racist. I guess it's kinda with scientology, you have to be in the cult and your tethan levels have to be just right before you start to see the conections.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2415
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2019, 10:51:51 PM »
Quote from: SavageSchemer;1100161
We're talking about the same people who proudly proclaim that Mathematics is racist. With a straight face! So, nothing surprises me anymore. "Educate" (indoctrinate) a fool and all you make is a dangerous fool.


Yeah, had a math teacher in college spouting that BS. But luckily for me she didn't went all crazy when I pushed back.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

Mankcam

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2019, 11:04:45 PM »
It's kinda unnerving how taking the middle ground in social viewpoints is getting harder to do with this brewing global shitstorm between the Far Right and the Ultra Left.

You would think a hobby like this would be almost immune like it used to be, but it is starting to become a major platform for both sides.

I am fortunate to have my own gaming group which is isolated from all this.
I used to want to be more part of the wider rpg hobby, but I'm starting to think I dodged a bullet by not jumping into the organised play/convention scene

They must be like walking on coals now, with 'X' cards and such. Soon all the loose GMs won't be running convention play, and it will just be a straight jacket affair in terms of creativity

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 14409
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2019, 11:10:31 PM »
Quote from: Aglondir;1100181
I doubt elementals or dragons have any colonial baggage.

Interesting that the combat bonus didn't make it from 3E to 5E. Can someone chime in on what the 4E Ranger does? I don't have those books.

I'm calling it now: Favored Enemy will not make it into 6E.

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1100184
Wait... what? I don't even see how goblins fit with any negative stereotypes of Jews. Goblins aren't generally thought of as accountants, retail clothing entrepreneurs, and doctors. :P

1a: Give them time. I am sure eventually they will declare that fire elementals represent native americans, eatth is african, and so on ad insanium.
1b: Not really. Ranger can designate a target as 'quarry' and gain a bonus to hit them. But it is situational rather than racial. And one of the class paths can designate one of two types of beasts as special quarry.
1c: Its shifted so much over the editions even if it were downplayed in a new edition, that would not necessarily signify anything at this point.

2: You have to understand that these maniacs can and will see racism in literally anything. And can change on a dime what they believe is and isnt to suit their agenda.

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 13852
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2019, 11:11:37 PM »
Quote from: Aglondir;1100181
If we buy into the colonialism theory


...we would obviously need to put down the bong!!!

BTW, I agree that "Favored Enemy" is going to become "problematic"

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2415
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2019, 11:14:47 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1100196
...we would obviously need to put down the bong!!!

BTW, I agree that "Favored Enemy" is going to become "problematic"

You must remember that one of the 9 principles is non-violent play. So if they get their way D&D will be played with all PCs and NPCs (which will be renamed) sitting at a table and discussing how to decolonize the planes.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

Toadmaster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • T
  • Posts: 731
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2019, 11:58:50 PM »
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1100184
Wait... what? I don't even see how goblins fit with any negative stereotypes of Jews. Goblins aren't generally thought of as accountants, retail clothing entrepreneurs, and doctors. :P


D&D and Tolkien goblins don't but goblins in some myth and fiction are fey folk (fairies, brownies,sprites, gnomes) and these more closely resemble ugly, meaner D&D gnomes with a love for treasure and sometimes mechanical devices. they also may or may not have great crafting skill.

Alexander Kalinowski

  • Dark God
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 624
    • View Profile
    • http://www.knightsoftheblacklily.com/
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2019, 01:44:27 AM »
Quote from: Mankcam;1100104
How did all this politically correct crap get into something as non-political as fantasy rpgs?


There's a word for it: totalitarianism. It always creeps up when parts of society have a vision for a brighter future and are willing to throw everything and everyone else under the bus for it
Author of the Knights of the Black Lily RPG, a game of sexy black fantasy.
Setting: Ilethra, a fantasy continent ruled over by exclusively spiteful and bored gods who play with mortals for their sport.
System: Faithful fantasy genre simulation. Bell-curved d100 as a core mechanic. Action economy based on interruptability. Cinematic attack sequences in melee. Fortune Points tied to scenario endgame stakes. Challenge-driven Game Design.
The dark gods await.

Kyle Aaron

  • high-minded hack
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8820
    • View Profile
    • http://www.athleticclubeast.com.au
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2019, 01:57:10 AM »
How about you guys stop sharing this bollocks? Flames need air.

Smother the flames with ignoring the nonsense. Your time is better spent buying snacks and rolling up random dungeons and star systems.
GAMERS rpg

One of the great virtues of the dice is that they do not come with boxed text.

"Don't let yourself get too worried about all this talk about roleplaying [...] the ultimate object of all this is for everyone to have fun, not to recreate some form of high dramatic art." - Dungeoneer

BarefootGaijin

  • Champion of Thac0
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2019, 02:05:30 AM »
Quote from: Mankcam;1100104
How did all this politically correct crap get into something as non-political as fantasy rpgs?

I mean, this is the same kind of hair-splitting straight-jacketing that we put up with in our professional lives. It's a pity that it's found its way to us in the rpg scene in the last few years

It is almost as ridiculous as the 'satanic panic' hysteria in the '80s, yet far more restricting.


Haven't read the rest of the thread yet but :
A) RPGs = low hanging fruit/easy target possibly,
B) Are these people STILL going on about this shit? Fuck. Like OP said, if you're worried about "muh fantasy races" you really have no problems, and need to take that silver spoon out of your mouth before you choke on it. Fucking white savior complex.

On second thoughts, we're gonna need a bigger spoon....
I play these games to be entertained... I don’t want to see games about rape, sodomy and drug addiction... I can get all that at home.

Razor 007

  • Razor 007
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1266
    • View Profile
" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2019, 02:11:56 AM »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1100215
How about you guys stop sharing this bollocks? Flames need air.

Smother the flames with ignoring the nonsense. Your time is better spent buying snacks and rolling up random dungeons and star systems.


Better spent indeed
I need you to roll a perception check.....