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Author Topic: " Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"  (Read 8515 times)

Omega

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2019, 04:20:22 PM »
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1100068
I think games are more interesting when every monster has at least the slightest possible chance of being redeemed.  

That doesn't mean I don't slaughter my share of well-meaning people that happen to be on the wrong side of my adventure (there was a time where we ended up slaughtering most of the city guard in the name of the 'greater good'), but it doesn't mean that I don't sometimes like to play at solving more complex social problems and building empires.


BX D&D is still my go to and exemplar of this. Anything, Law, Neutral, or Chaos could be friendly or hostile. You never knew and had to approach each encounter on its own. The Spectre might be a travelling merchant. The gold dragon might be exterminating villages for fun and profit. Those lizardmen might help you if you approach them right. And so on.

That article is made of distilled stupid.

Spinachcat

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2019, 04:24:33 PM »
White liberals are the greatest danger to non-white Americans.

And probably not just Americans either.

If any of you haven't played RPGs with "non-white people", this is how it goes....just like your other games. I've gamed with lots and lots of people who don't look like me, but hot damn, they almost all gamed just like me. They wanted to play heroes (or anti-heroes) who kicked evil monster ass and took their kewl stuff. They wanted to escape the bullshit of real life for a few hours, eat pizza and roll dice to enjoy their foray into imaginary lands.

Fuck these SJW assholes and their bullshit.

Mankcam

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2019, 04:30:03 PM »
How did all this politically correct crap get into something as non-political as fantasy rpgs?

I mean, this is the same kind of hair-splitting straight-jacketing that we put up with in our professional lives. It's a pity that it's found its way to us in the rpg scene in the last few years

It is almost as ridiculous as the 'satanic panic' hysteria in the '80s, yet far more restricting.

Pat

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2019, 04:34:51 PM »
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1100099
The quoted post from the reddit is asking to examine an aspect of the game - who is 'kill on sight' and what that means for the game.  Maybe there's a better way; maybe thinking about it is worthwhile.  

That's not the main thrust of the post, though. It's almost entirely a list of claims that fantasy races are a stand-in for real life racism. If it was really about rejecting the use of Us/Them tagging to indicate what's okay to kill and what's not, then why say it's okay to murderspreekill troglodytes and mind flayers? There's no reason trogs have to be Evil with a capital E, after all they're not infused with with the essence of evil or have an essential part of their nature that's abhorrent. And while illithids do have an inherently abhorrent method of eating, even if we assume they must slurp down brains to survive we don't have to treat them as a monolithic evil. After all vampires in many myths are just as bad, and are often portrayed sympathetically. Mind flayers might be tormented, full of justifications and rationalizations, or it might just be what they do without any reflection or self-analysis. If the article was really about kill on sight, it wouldn't draw that line. In fact, given that it's a long list of accusations of racism without a serious attempt to talk about solutions, that suggests the author might want to look in the mirror next time they classify stinking lizard people or vampire-adjacents who are unpretty and have an even more squeam-inducing method of feeding as examples of unremitting evil.

Ratman_tf

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2019, 04:36:55 PM »
Quote from: Mankcam;1100104
How did all this politically correct crap get into something as non-political as fantasy rpgs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_march_through_the_institutions
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Toadmaster

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2019, 04:40:33 PM »
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1100099
You can choose who you invite to game with, but it's not your responsibility to choose who does or does not participate in the hobby.  If you don't want to have discussions with them, nobody is forcing you to.  

The quoted post from the reddit is asking to examine an aspect of the game - who is 'kill on sight' and what that means for the game.  Maybe there's a better way; maybe thinking about it is worthwhile.  

One valid criticism of a lot of 'evil' is that they don't do anything that the good guys don't do; there is team ugly and team pretty, and basically they treat each other the same if they're in charge.  When I want my players to know who the bad guy is, I want him to do something deplorable.  In a TV show, you let the bad guy kick a puppy (or kill John Wick's dog) so it's clear that he is a bad guy and nobody has to feel guilty about taking him out.  From my perspective, that's the LEAST you can do in your games.  If the bad guys do bad things, you don't have to ever worry about whether you're the bad guy because you're kicking down his door and taking all his booty.


The problem is when it goes from examining the mind set and personal drivers of the "kill on sight" monsters, and assuming that they are stand ins for (choose you favorite "oppressed" group).

In WW2 the Japanese made themselves kill on sight "monsters" because that is how they generally responded to their enemies. There was little quarter asked or given on either side. If you were an American, British or Chinese soldier, a Japanese soldier and their culture may very well appear to have zero redeeming value. You saw much of the same between the Germans and Soviets on the Eastern front. By contrast the Commonwealth, USA, Italians and Germans had a rather more civilized conflict, they had centuries of warfare which made WW2 just another little misunderstanding among friends.

Shasarak

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2019, 04:47:22 PM »
So if I understand this correctly then Orcs are representative of Blacks, Goblins are representative of Blacks, Drow are of course representative of Blacks and I can only assume that if I include white Nazis in my game then they must also be representative of Blacks.

It looks like no matter how far we dig down into the narrative it is Black oppression all the way down.
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GeekyBugle

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2019, 04:57:10 PM »
Quote from: Mankcam;1100104
How did all this politically correct crap get into something as non-political as fantasy rpgs?

I mean, this is the same kind of hair-splitting straight-jacketing that we put up with in our professional lives. It's a pity that it's found its way to us in the rpg scene in the last few years

It is almost as ridiculous as the 'satanic panic' hysteria in the '80s, yet far more restricting.


The geek, gamer, etc identities transcend race, sex, sexual orientation, etc. Just like nationalism does, therefore they must be eradicated. Also they can't create, only corrupt, and they know politics is downstream of culture, they need to control or, failing that, destroy anything that can't be used as a pamphlet for their cult's dogma.
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jeff37923

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2019, 05:28:49 PM »
Just as an aside, about 3/4ths of the John Wayne westerns that do have Indians in them, show John Wayne's character as respectful of their culture and warning others that not being respectful of their culture and agreements will cause some danger. I doubt that the reddit author has ever seen a John Wayne western because they would find them too problematic to watch.

S'mon

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2019, 05:39:00 PM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1100059
My thoughts are that the concept of decolonization is a way for white progressive activists to control and monopolize conversation. This reddit post is a great example of that.


It's all about Colonising people's thought-space until there's no room for free thought.
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GeekyBugle

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2019, 05:50:09 PM »
Quote from: S'mon;1100120
It's all about Colonising people's thought-space until there's no room for free thought.

How can you explain that African witch doctors could throw lightning from their fingers before they were colonized huh!?

Checkmate shitlords!

Edited to add video.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 05:57:39 PM by GeekyBugle »
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jeff37923

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2019, 06:43:16 PM »
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1100099
You can choose who you invite to game with, but it's not your responsibility to choose who does or does not participate in the hobby.  If you don't want to have discussions with them, nobody is forcing you to.  


You need to tell that to Mike Mearls and WotC.

Spinachcat

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2019, 07:22:26 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1100123
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i80qaETtw8


I (almost) feel bad for the idiot girl in that video. She proclaims she wants to get rid of science, but then jumps on her smart phone the next moment. She's been pumped so full of SJW propaganda - PROBABLY BY HER TEACHERS - that she can't see reality in her own hands. Sad to see Capetown suffering the SJW intrusion because its the last thing South Africa needs.

But it was good to hear the other students in the room laughing at her.

GeekyBugle

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2019, 07:24:24 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;1100148
I (almost) feel bad for the idiot girl in that video. She proclaims she wants to get rid of science, but then jumps on her smart phone the next moment. She's been pumped so full of SJW propaganda - PROBABLY BY HER TEACHERS - that she can't see reality in her own hands. Sad to see Capetown suffering the SJW intrusion because its the last thing South Africa needs.

But it was good to hear the other students in the room laughing at her.

But that's white science! it's racist from the word go! also I want witch doctors who can command the Lightning!
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

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SavageSchemer

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" Decolonizing D&D: Is your game problematic?"
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2019, 07:52:58 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1100150
But that's white science! it's racist from the word go! also I want witch doctors who can command the Lightning!

We're talking about the same people who proudly proclaim that Mathematics is racist. With a straight face! So, nothing surprises me anymore. "Educate" (indoctrinate) a fool and all you make is a dangerous fool.
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