This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Author Topic: "DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?  (Read 6067 times)

Koltar

  • Openly GURPS Loving
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8328
Alright the other thread was sort of a "Let's bitch about the problems with the DEADLANDS setting and fictional timeline" thread.

Let's go at it from a different angle here -

How would you make the "Deadlands" idea work better?
Be more believable?

Made Less offensive to various groups?

GEneral Question:

 Whats a better way to make an "The Old West With Magic/Spells!" setting?


I remermber there being a thin book compatible with D20 called 'Spellslinger' - Was it any good?

- Ed C.
The return of 'You can't take the Sky From me!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

Silverlion

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5483
    • http://www.silverlionstudios.com
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2010, 11:38:50 AM »
I personally would do it more "Magic Horror+Wild West," think of it as a subtle take on it. Old World Monsters are real, but few; same with new world monster. A large amount of the major opponents would be humans with black magic, and with rare exceptions magic would be corrupt and dangerous.


I'd keep slavery/Civil war just as it was, but perhaps with some of that magic towards the end, then I'd likely just leave racism/sexism alone. I don't need it to have fun in my games, and I don't think it would add much to play. (That isn't to say some wouldn't occur, just that it wouldn't be a big and notable element.)

It's pretty much the basis of my Whispered West game, where you might fight a gunslinger who steals a lock of hair to loop it through his magical watch--so that when he duels you, it pauses you for a heartbeat. Enough to let him win. A man might pour lead through the eye of a man hanged but was innocent to make sure his bullet struck true, and so on.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 11:41:47 AM by Silverlion »
High Valor REVISED: A fantasy Dark Age RPG. Available NOW!
Hearts & Souls 2E Coming in 2019

Blackhand

  • War Seer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1548
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2010, 12:06:17 PM »
I'm actually working on some stuff right now.

I've chosen to go all the way back to 1840.  I'm going down two separate paths right now - one for my actual story (doing a book about Oklahoma before the war) and one for my nWoD game that will feature all that game type stuff.

You have to ask yourself, are you married to certain aspects of the genre?  The Blue and Grey?  Cuz that's another era entirely.

Gunslingers are post civil war also.

Also, how historically accurate do you want to be?  I've been researching this pretty much my whole life, so I intend to represent things as historically accurate as it can be, with only a little deviation to allow for a place like Smokefall Ridge (a fictional area in southern Oklahoma where the nWoD will take place) to exist.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 12:08:23 PM by Blackhand »
Blackhand 2.0 - New and improved version!

Simlasa

  • Lemon Tart
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5832
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2010, 01:30:58 PM »
Chaosium's 'Aces High' setting LINK is more to my taste... no big changes to history...  add a bit of occult magic/monsters... no wacky steampunk.
It's more like 'Deadwood' or various spaghetti Westerns with some horror elements.
Unfortunately everyone in our 'Deadlands' group (except me) hated 'Deadwood'.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 04:11:22 PM by Simlasa »

crkrueger

  • Hulk in the Vineyard
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12559
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2010, 02:07:58 PM »
Quote from: Simlasa;426403
Unfortunately everyone in our 'Deadlands' group (except me) hated 'Deadwood'.


Never play with those people again.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery's thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Simlasa

  • Lemon Tart
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5832
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2010, 02:20:59 PM »
Quote from: CRKrueger;426416
Never play with those people again.
Ha! I think maybe they were 'offended' by all the swearing.

Kinetic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • K
  • Posts: 134
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2010, 02:50:05 PM »
Quote from: Simlasa;426420
Ha! I think maybe they were 'offended' by all the swearing.


I don't like it, personally.  It's not that I'm offended by the swearing it's just that it's distracting and takes away from everything else going on when it's a constant.  The people behind the series said that the slurs and insults people would have thrown around in that time "wouldn't make sense" today.  It was also said that "...if you put words like "goldarn" into the mouths of the characters on "Deadwood," they'd all wind up sounding like Yosemite Sam."   So they replaced any slur or insult with "Fuck" to keep with the "shockingly crude" feel they wanted for the show.  

The word "fuck" was said 43 times in the first hour of the show.  It has also been reported that the series had a total count of 2,980 "fucks" and an average of 1.56 utterances of "fuck" per minute of footage.[1]  For me it was just annoying enough that I didn't care about what was happening.

1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadwood_%28TV_series%29#Use_of_profanity

Kinetic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • K
  • Posts: 134
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2010, 02:51:47 PM »
Quote from: Simlasa;426420
Ha! I think maybe they were 'offended' by all the swearing.

I don't like it, personally.  It's not that I'm offended by the swearing it's just that it's distracting and takes away from everything else going on when it's a constant.  The people behind the series said that the slurs and insults people would have thrown around in that time "wouldn't make sense" today.  It was also said that "...if you put words like "goldarn" into the mouths of the characters on "Deadwood," they'd all wind up sounding like Yosemite Sam."   So they replaced any slur or insult with "Fuck" to keep with the "shockingly crude" feel they wanted for the show.  

The word "fuck" was said 43 times in the first hour of the show.[1]  It has also been reported that the series had a total count of 2,980 "fucks" and an average of 1.56 utterances of "fuck" per minute of footage.[2]  For me it was just annoying enough that I didn't care about what was happening.

1 - http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/columns/intelligencer/n_10191/
2 - http://www.thewvsr.com/deadwood.htm


When I play Deadlands I like it to have more of a forklore bent than wacky steampunk, ghost rock-powered Weird West flavor.  Magic is usually something more rare, superstition is stronger and the bads are more themed around the folklore of the period than what I find in the books.  As to the politics of the time I don't think I've been in a game where it has ever been a huge deal so I never put too much thought into it.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 02:58:25 PM by Kinetic »

Simlasa

  • Lemon Tart
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5832
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2010, 04:05:57 PM »
The swearing didn't bother me at all... maybe because I've got friends that talk like that so I'm used to it.
I read somewhere that the guy who created the show came to a meeting with a stack of research to support using the world 'fuck' in the show.
In a Deadwood game I could pull off the colorful swearing but the faux-Shakespearean double-talk that the 'Mayor' puts out would be beyond me... much as I enjoy it.

Quote
When I play Deadlands I like it to have more of a forklore bent than wacky steampunk, ghost rock-powered Weird West flavor. Magic is usually something more rare, superstition is stronger and the bads are more themed around the folklore of the period than what I find in the books.
Most all of the creatures in 'Aces High' are from Native American folklore... it gives a different flavor compared to the usual zombies, werewolves and vampires.
I do like the 'rattlers' in Deadlands though... they remind me of the Cthonians in CoC.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 04:08:24 PM by Simlasa »

Pseudoephedrine
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5927
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2010, 04:57:05 PM »
I'd stick with history as much as possible, and simply include a section mentioning what was going on with minorities and women that includes some PC options for people who want to play those sorts of characters, preferably with a few historical examples mentioned so that people who wanted to could look them up for inspiration. When I did depart from history, I'd make sure that I didn't require any nonsensical turnabouts or deviations, and that the consequences of those changes interacted with relevant features of the world.

IME, the few minority, gay and women players I know don't really want to pretend that the bad stuff didn't happen when they read a historical setting, they want to have their very existence acknowledged and some information on how they can play someone who is ____ and still fit into the setting.
Running
The Pernicious Light, or The Wreckers of Sword Island;
A Goblin's Progress, or Of Cannons and Canons;
An Oration on the Dignity of Tash, or On the Elves and Their Lies
All for S&W Complete
Playing: Dark Heresy, WFRP 2e

"Elves don't want you cutting down trees but they sell wood items, they don't care about the forests, they''re the fuckin' wood mafia." -Anonymous

David Johansen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • D
  • Posts: 6222
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 05:02:03 PM »
Yeah, real history, but with secret magic is the way to go.  Blatant mashups seldom come out well.
Fantasy Adventure Comic, games, and more http://www.uncouthsavage.com

Tetsubo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1221
    • http://www.youtube.com/user/tetsubo57
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 07:30:53 PM »
I could still run a Deadlands setting. I would make the following changes however:

The Civil War ends as it does in our time-line.

Mrs. Lincoln is assassinated rather than the President. He goes on to lead an actual, functioning Reconstruction. He is elected to a total of four terms. He remarries during his third term to a woman 25 years his junior. He goes on to have three children with her. Racial relations never achieve the horrific levels they do in our time-line. The Klan fails to ever gain purchase post-war.

The Event still takes place in 1868. Without the CSA the campaign conflicts would be more supernatural based. Though the US-Native American conflicts remain. The US never makes as many gains against the natives. True Native American nations arise. As does Deseret.

The North American continent ends up as a patchwork of nations. But with overall better racial relations. Plus steampunk.

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2010, 01:17:04 AM »
Basically, something closer in tone to Aces & Eights.  A more realistic alt-history that doesn't bend over backwards to try to include 20th/21st century social concepts.  Keep the prejudice and sexism, because that is prime fodder for roleplaying potential.

I wouldn't really have a problem with the magic level still being just as visible as it is in the default setting.  Just make it more credible 19th century culturally.

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Lizaur

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • L
  • Posts: 70
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2010, 10:11:59 AM »
I'd use the wonderful map from Kenzer's Aces&Eights: Mexican West, CSA, Deseret, Republic of Texas, etc. I'd make the horror and fantasy increased as you travel west: occult yet known in the big, civilized cities of the coast, and unchained weird and blatant in the interior of the continent. Plus, the magic-users classes from Spellslinger are very, very nice.
Socially, I'd keep the prejudices of the era as they were: it was the real thing those days and, more important, brings drama and grittiness to the game.
CAUTION: Non-native english speaker ahead. Please be nice.

Pseudoephedrine
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5927
"DEADLANDS" or similiar setting - How to do it Right or at least Better?
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2010, 03:12:51 PM »
Discovered this over on the big purple. Might be useful for people trying to do Western games, whether Deadlands or not. It's a rail map of the US in 1870... done as a D&D hex map.

http://inkwellideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/usrails-rev.gif
Running
The Pernicious Light, or The Wreckers of Sword Island;
A Goblin's Progress, or Of Cannons and Canons;
An Oration on the Dignity of Tash, or On the Elves and Their Lies
All for S&W Complete
Playing: Dark Heresy, WFRP 2e

"Elves don't want you cutting down trees but they sell wood items, they don't care about the forests, they''re the fuckin' wood mafia." -Anonymous