Quote from: Warboss Squee;1105438Who the fuck ever portrayed the CSA as noble or gallant?  Individual characters, sure, but even the game points out that it's a terrible place.

I'm sure it happened at a few home games. Certainly nothing for shane to have bent over backwards for the pearl clutching easily offended members of the hobby imo. I respect the guy for sticking to his guns even if I lost most of my respect for him doing so. What's next Savage Rifts no longer has Fascists and Nazis because it makes many uncomfortable like the CSA did in Deadlands.

Quote from: sureshot;1105440I'm sure it happened at a few home games. Certainly nothing for shane to have bent over backwards for the pearl clutching easily offended members of the hobby imo. I respect the guy for sticking to his guns even if I lost most of my respect for him doing so. What's next Savage Rifts no longer has Fascists and Nazis because it makes many uncomfortable like the CSA did in Deadlands.

They have already removed the CS characters and added a Do Gooder fort that all PCs are assumed to have joined. It seems jarringly out of place in the Rifts setting, at least as I've played it. Outside of that, they did a pretty good job with it.

I'm not at the point of losing respect for these creators. All of the larger companies are doing stuff like this. They have to mollify these loud activists and the new highly sensitive audience that listens to them. If you've got people counting on your paycheck, that's an easy choice to make.  I'd hope that most of the Cancel people aren't claiming anyone on their taxes and don't know any better, but that's probably not true.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1105351No, it's like a setting where the Nazis weren't crushed because magic appears and then we all learn they were actually really wonderful and noble and gallant people and they quickly freed the Jews and even let them be SS officers.

Well that's not the Deadlands *I* have been reading. I don't agree with the assumptions either. But I shrug and treat it like 19th Century Rifts. Magic happens. CSA becomes like the Coalition and says "humans" are more important than the monsters.

Again - that's the basic angle they took it for ulterior reasons. I'm like "whatever" and I play my NPC's as individuals with their motivations informed by whatever I feel is necessary. I don't (and I assume you don't either) look at everyone and everything as a monolith. Not all Nazis were Jew-hating monsters. Not all Confederates were slave-owning black-owners. Sure a lot were... but the game is the interaction between PC's and NPC's. That is where the GM's job is to make interesting despite the collective assumptions.

The larger point is pretending ANY of this content has some impact on real life is where the insanity begins.

I actually don't mind the change and really don't care what reason drives it. It's the supposed consumers he's placating that really drive me nuts here. I find it ironic that these same people (many of whom frequent TBP) never batted the slightest eyelash when Modiphius announced they were going to make John Carter of Mars. John Carter is noble, gallant and a former captain of the Confederacy. This game is frequently celebrated at TBP. But yet many of these people were so woke that way back when original Deadlands was first released, the very existence of the CSA was a deal breaker.

 I'm just going to go ahead and call bullshit on the entire narrative.

Quote from: tenbones;1105462Not all Nazis were Jew-hating monsters. Not all Confederates were slave-owning black-owners.

You couldn't be a good Nazi without being Jew-hating, and in some regards monstrous. You could be a Nazi party member like Schindler, but not a good Nazi. The CSA by contrast was not a totalitarian state and did not have any particular enforced ideology, although the desire to continue slavery was the main reason for its existence.

Quote from: S'mon;1105472You couldn't be a good Nazi without being Jew-hating, and in some regards monstrous. You could be a Nazi party member like Schindler, but not a good Nazi. The CSA by contrast was not a totalitarian state and did not have any particular enforced ideology, although the desire to continue slavery was the main reason for its existence.

If you've abandoned the CSA for the Weird West, I doubt you're a "good" southerner.

Quote from: Omega;1105419Fixed that for you.

"organised play"? You mean, the game company organises a game session for you? Why would you do that? If you don't have a regular crew of gamers, then have an open game table at the local game store. People will come along, and if you're at any good at running it, some will stick around.

It's all very odd to me. You'll see me mocking editions of D&D or Traveller past 1st, but I'm not going around complaining about them and flailing around hysterically about them. I just don't play them, and offer my own games. And people come play, and I'm not even that great a GM, I'm sure other better GMs would attract players even more.

As Yoda said, do or no do, there is no whinge.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1105528"organised play"? You mean, the game company organises a game session for you? Why would you do that? If you don't have a regular crew of gamers, then have an open game table at the local game store. People will come along, and if you're at any good at running it, some will stick around.

It's all very odd to me. You'll see me mocking editions of D&D or Traveller past 1st, but I'm not going around complaining about them and flailing around hysterically about them. I just don't play them, and offer my own games. And people come play, and I'm not even that great a GM, I'm sure other better GMs would attract players even more.

As Yoda said, do or no do, there is no whinge.

Convention shit, I'd guess.

I'm not one for crowds though, so I can't be sure.

Quote from: S'mon;1105472You couldn't be a good Nazi without being Jew-hating, and in some regards monstrous. You could be a Nazi party member like Schindler, but not a good Nazi. The CSA by contrast was not a totalitarian state and did not have any particular enforced ideology, although the desire to continue slavery was the main reason for its existence.

Yeah. But why is the narrative ALWAYS coming back to the implied framing of THIS narrative?

We both know why. And the longer we as players, consumers, creators allow it to continue... it'll just keep making it harder for us to have good stuff.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1105506If you've abandoned the CSA for the Weird West, I doubt you're a "good" southerner.

Well that's one reason it makes better play to have the Civil War be over. Equally true of Union ex-soldiers. In a historical Wild West setting you can have ex-CSA and ex-USA soldiers who aren't deserters!

Quote from: Rhedyn;1105432Organized Savage Worlds play? Yeah OK. Let's pretend that is a national thing.

Hey! It could happen!

I wonder how long before the SJWs target Dust Adventures, which features (among other things) playable Germans in an extended WW2. Apparently the Germans gave the Nazis the boot at some point, but isn't that akin to the Confederacy giving slavery the boot of its own accord?

Quote from: Dan Davenport;1105569Apparently the Germans gave the Nazis the boot at some point, but isn't that akin to the Confederacy giving slavery the boot of its own accord?

Not necessarily.  The Nazis were never elected to power - even when they fully controlled society at their peak the Nazi Party membership was ~8 million (compared to a German population of 80 Million).  If the Germans overthrew the Nazi party (as was attempted a few times) and killed Hitler and other high-ranking Nazi officials, a Germany minus the Nazis might work.  If instead Hitler and all his lieutenants just said 'we were wrong about the final solution and we're good guys now', it wouldn't.  

I'm not familiar with the setting of Dust Adventures, but it is possible they screwed up in extending the war.  It's hard for the bad guys to be redeemed without a major change.  If Germany had been defeated, purged, but a shooting war erupted with the Soviet Union and they were back to war with the Allied Powers (as some people seemed to think was reasonable) you have an interesting alternate history, but you're probably going to still have a squick factor for the German units that people don't like.

Quote from: sureshot;1105440What's next Savage Rifts no longer has Fascists and Nazis because it makes many uncomfortable like the CSA did in Deadlands.

The setting "fix" in Savage Rifts is laughably weak. What made Rifts badass was there were no "good nations". Tolkeen goes wonky with evil magic and the Coalition is both the heroic saviors of the human race and its oppressors. Half the people fighting the Vampire Kingdoms are almost equally bad! In original Rifts, you can travel every corner of the world, mixing it up with the good, the bad and the ugly. The PCs can easily be aiding ARCHIE in one adventure and opposing him in another.

Kevin Siembieda's system may be messy, but his settings kick ass with hard questions which make for excellent roleplaying.

If I ran Savage Rifts, I'd only use the original setting materials.

Quote from: Dan Davenport;1105569I wonder how long before the SJWs target Dust Adventures, which features (among other things) playable Germans in an extended WW2. Apparently the Germans gave the Nazis the boot at some point, but isn't that akin to the Confederacy giving slavery the boot of its own accord?

If Dust becomes popular, the REEEEE clowns will freak the fuck out. Yes, you're right. The "Not Nazis" with all the kewl "Not Nazi" gear and costumes are playable. Of course, in real life, Germans rebelling against the Reich didn't want more war and were working with the Allies to undermine the Nazis. But none of that matters to the REEEEE clowns because like most Americans, they don't know jack shit about history and assume "German = Nazi".

Quote from: Spinachcat;1105659If I ran Savage Rifts, I'd only use the original setting materials.

That is the *best* way to run it.