Quote from: SHARK on May 20, 2022, 12:00:01 PM

Quote from: Abraxus on May 20, 2022, 10:58:24 AM
How does one block a poster on this site anyway?

Greetings!

Yes, Abraxus, IGNORE is a useful function, found under the instructions GeekyBugle provided. I haven't in the past used the Ignore function myself, though it increasingly becomes more attractive to use for certain people.

I hope you are doing well! I haven't seen you around here much recently. It's always good to see your discussion and contributions.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I rather not except with certain posters it feels like being at work when dealing with them on the boards and they refuse to change yet expect others to change their ways. So fuck that I rather not even waste the minutes reading their posts. Not sure if so will with some damn close.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 20, 2022, 12:01:57 PM
Nostalgia is probably the reason. Tabletop gamers are very nostalgia-driven and will stay with properties solely out of that feeling even if it becomes unrecognizable. They're very selective in their nostalgia too and will have nostalgia for versions of their favorite game that only existed in their heads. They'll ignore genuine absurdities in their fav games that they wouldn't tolerate elsewhere.

I speak from experience. It's a toxic mindset that poisons you. I broke out of it and now I'm critical of nostalgia and these old properties. IMO, we should make new games with the benefit of hindsight and all the technical innovation that has happened since. We should embrace a diversity of settings rather than let monopolies hold sway.

Very interesting observations. Nostalgia does hit hard. It's the reason I bought into DCC. You're right about technical innovation. There are a few newer systems that really nail dice mechanics and probably get overlooked by many because they don't use a d20.

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 20, 2022, 01:09:40 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 20, 2022, 12:01:57 PM
Nostalgia is probably the reason. Tabletop gamers are very nostalgia-driven and will stay with properties solely out of that feeling even if it becomes unrecognizable. They're very selective in their nostalgia too and will have nostalgia for versions of their favorite game that only existed in their heads. They'll ignore genuine absurdities in their fav games that they wouldn't tolerate elsewhere.

I speak from experience. It's a toxic mindset that poisons you. I broke out of it and now I'm critical of nostalgia and these old properties. IMO, we should make new games with the benefit of hindsight and all the technical innovation that has happened since. We should embrace a diversity of settings rather than let monopolies hold sway.

Very interesting observations. Nostalgia does hit hard. It's the reason I bought into DCC. You're right about technical innovation. There are a few newer systems that really nail dice mechanics and probably get overlooked by many because they don't use a d20.

Oh, for fuck's sake! Not this bullshit again....

What is new is not necessarily better and if it is old and works, why fix it? Not to mention that the games that are played out of 'nostalgia' use d6 or d10 with not even a glance at the d20.

Why do I get the feeling that I've been gaming for longer than either of you have been alive?

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 20, 2022, 11:28:03 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on May 20, 2022, 11:04:00 AM

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 20, 2022, 10:48:01 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on May 20, 2022, 10:30:14 AM
Also, my offer to have this account's IP checked by the staff is a standing one. This is the only account I have, or have had here. Again, feel free to post any proof otherwise.

You wear a clown costume but insist that people take you seriously. Your clown license has a registration number? Nobody cares about magic internet numbers.

The internet has been around for 30 years and trolling is well understood at this point. Loneliness and social isolation suck and some people only have the internet as an outlet, so it's understandable.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you know somebody's got nothin' when they resort to the ol' armchair psychologist routine.

You don't have to take my word for it. There have been loads of studies and it's obvious to any layperson who looks into it. Loneliness is a big driver. There's no shame in being lonely. You want attention and you get it here. It doesn't take a psychologist to notice that. If more people showed you compassion instead of getting riled up, you'd stop. I've seen it many times.

Repeating it doesn't make it true. Nice try, though. And before you tearfully stammer "B-but MUH PEER REVIEW", your cherry-picked take is incomplete and overly reductive.

Quote from: jeff37923 on May 20, 2022, 02:21:54 PM
What is new is not necessarily better and if it is old and works, why fix it? Not to mention that the games that are played out of 'nostalgia' use d6 or d10 with not even a glance at the d20.

Why do I get the feeling that I've been gaming for longer than either of you have been alive?

Possibly.  However, ever notice how the "nostalgia" case is always being made for why someone else does something, not an explanation for why the one making the case is doing something?  That's because it is more wish-casting than thinking.

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 20, 2022, 01:09:40 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 20, 2022, 12:01:57 PM
Nostalgia is probably the reason. Tabletop gamers are very nostalgia-driven and will stay with properties solely out of that feeling even if it becomes unrecognizable. They're very selective in their nostalgia too and will have nostalgia for versions of their favorite game that only existed in their heads. They'll ignore genuine absurdities in their fav games that they wouldn't tolerate elsewhere.

I speak from experience. It's a toxic mindset that poisons you. I broke out of it and now I'm critical of nostalgia and these old properties. IMO, we should make new games with the benefit of hindsight and all the technical innovation that has happened since. We should embrace a diversity of settings rather than let monopolies hold sway.

Very interesting observations. Nostalgia does hit hard. It's the reason I bought into DCC. You're right about technical innovation. There are a few newer systems that really nail dice mechanics and probably get overlooked by many because they don't use a d20.

Nostalgia does play a huge role, but if someone likes something and it works for them why should they change for something new?

LOL at using DCC as an example of nostalgia since it uses a number of new mechanics that AREN'T Old School.

As for the settings: Agreed, some are 100% public domain (Pendragon, Atlantis, Medieval anything, etc), some aren't and you need to file the serial numbers off (Flash Gordon, Conan, Barsoom, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc).

But it can and has been done, in this same forum we have the author behind several examples (Night Owl Games), you might not like the mechanics, but having the bulk of the work done you just need to decouple the setting from the mechanics to replace them with your favourite ones.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" is not only a maxim it's good advice, so Go forth and find the engine you like best and transplant it to whatever setting you like.

As for innovative mechanics I'm on board, Advantage-Disadvantage is something I'm welding to my games because I like it, so they will end as a Frankenstein monster with bits from the OSR and from other places and "new" stuff I'm cooking. "New" because the fact that I haven't seen it elsewhere doesn't mean it doesn't exist anywhere.

Quote from: jeff37923 on May 20, 2022, 02:21:54 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 20, 2022, 01:09:40 PM
Very interesting observations. Nostalgia does hit hard. It's the reason I bought into DCC. You're right about technical innovation. There are a few newer systems that really nail dice mechanics and probably get overlooked by many because they don't use a d20.

Oh, for fuck's sake! Not this bullshit again....

What is new is not necessarily better and if it is old and works, why fix it? Not to mention that the games that are played out of 'nostalgia' use d6 or d10 with not even a glance at the d20.

Why do I get the feeling that I've been gaming for longer than either of you have been alive?

Sorry, dude, that wasn't directed to you or your game of choice. I and people I know overlooked great systems because no d20. Personal experience, YMMV.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 20, 2022, 03:23:57 PM
Nostalgia does play a huge role, but if someone likes something and it works for them why should they change for something new?

LOL at using DCC as an example of nostalgia since it uses a number of new mechanics that AREN'T Old School.

As for the settings: Agreed, some are 100% public domain (Pendragon, Atlantis, Medieval anything, etc), some aren't and you need to file the serial numbers off (Flash Gordon, Conan, Barsoom, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc).

But it can and has been done, in this same forum we have the author behind several examples (Night Owl Games), you might not like the mechanics, but having the bulk of the work done you just need to decouple the setting from the mechanics to replace them with your favourite ones.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" is not only a maxim it's good advice, so Go forth and find the engine you like best and transplant it to whatever setting you like.

As for innovative mechanics I'm on board, Advantage-Disadvantage is something I'm welding to my games because I like it, so they will end as a Frankenstein monster with bits from the OSR and from other places and "new" stuff I'm cooking. "New" because the fact that I haven't seen it elsewhere doesn't mean it doesn't exist anywhere.

Why change? Sometimes new can solve problems you didn't know you had. For the longest time I resisted anything but d20 vs target number systems. Roll, do some arithmetic, pause, and then say "ah, I hit." It took me far too long to discover other systems that make the result immediate and obvious. It turns out, when it comes to rolling dice, I like those systems better. Was there an objective problem with d20 systems? No. But sticking with what I knew prevented me from discovering something I like better.

With DCC it was the art more than the mechanics.

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 20, 2022, 05:38:51 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on May 20, 2022, 02:21:54 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 20, 2022, 01:09:40 PM
Very interesting observations. Nostalgia does hit hard. It's the reason I bought into DCC. You're right about technical innovation. There are a few newer systems that really nail dice mechanics and probably get overlooked by many because they don't use a d20.

Oh, for fuck's sake! Not this bullshit again....

What is new is not necessarily better and if it is old and works, why fix it? Not to mention that the games that are played out of 'nostalgia' use d6 or d10 with not even a glance at the d20.

Why do I get the feeling that I've been gaming for longer than either of you have been alive?

Sorry, dude, that wasn't directed to you or your game of choice. I and people I know overlooked great systems because no d20. Personal experience, YMMV.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 20, 2022, 03:23:57 PM
Nostalgia does play a huge role, but if someone likes something and it works for them why should they change for something new?

LOL at using DCC as an example of nostalgia since it uses a number of new mechanics that AREN'T Old School.

As for the settings: Agreed, some are 100% public domain (Pendragon, Atlantis, Medieval anything, etc), some aren't and you need to file the serial numbers off (Flash Gordon, Conan, Barsoom, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc).

But it can and has been done, in this same forum we have the author behind several examples (Night Owl Games), you might not like the mechanics, but having the bulk of the work done you just need to decouple the setting from the mechanics to replace them with your favourite ones.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" is not only a maxim it's good advice, so Go forth and find the engine you like best and transplant it to whatever setting you like.

As for innovative mechanics I'm on board, Advantage-Disadvantage is something I'm welding to my games because I like it, so they will end as a Frankenstein monster with bits from the OSR and from other places and "new" stuff I'm cooking. "New" because the fact that I haven't seen it elsewhere doesn't mean it doesn't exist anywhere.

Why change? Sometimes new can solve problems you didn't know you had. For the longest time I resisted anything but d20 vs target number systems. Roll, do some arithmetic, pause, and then say "ah, I hit." It took me far too long to discover other systems that make the result immediate and obvious. It turns out, when it comes to rolling dice, I like those systems better. Was there an objective problem with d20 systems? No. But sticking with what I knew prevented me from discovering something I like better.

With DCC it was the art more than the mechanics.

If I don't know I have a problem... Do I really have one?

My point isn't to never try a different system, my point is if someone likes d20 systems better there's nothing wrong with that.

Same if you like 3d6, 2d6, 2d10, dice pool, tarot, whatever. If you never try something different you might be missing on something, but if you're happy with your game of choice you don't have a problem.

Now, if you have an issue with say the swinginess of the d20... Then 3d6 might be for you, you might not like all the other stuff and end up just replacing the d20 for 3d6 and boom, YOUR ideal game.

Quote from: jeff37923 on May 20, 2022, 02:21:54 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 20, 2022, 01:09:40 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 20, 2022, 12:01:57 PM
Nostalgia is probably the reason. Tabletop gamers are very nostalgia-driven and will stay with properties solely out of that feeling even if it becomes unrecognizable. They're very selective in their nostalgia too and will have nostalgia for versions of their favorite game that only existed in their heads. They'll ignore genuine absurdities in their fav games that they wouldn't tolerate elsewhere.

I speak from experience. It's a toxic mindset that poisons you. I broke out of it and now I'm critical of nostalgia and these old properties. IMO, we should make new games with the benefit of hindsight and all the technical innovation that has happened since. We should embrace a diversity of settings rather than let monopolies hold sway.

Very interesting observations. Nostalgia does hit hard. It's the reason I bought into DCC. You're right about technical innovation. There are a few newer systems that really nail dice mechanics and probably get overlooked by many because they don't use a d20.

Oh, for fuck's sake! Not this bullshit again....

What is new is not necessarily better and if it is old and works, why fix it? Not to mention that the games that are played out of 'nostalgia' use d6 or d10 with not even a glance at the d20.

Why do I get the feeling that I've been gaming for longer than either of you have been alive?

I didn't say that. I appreciate what the OSR is doing, especially when it comes to providing alternatives to the bloated woke monopolies that have taken over the market. I was even discussing how to imitate the setting of Star Frontiers. Yeah, what's new isn't necessarily better but sometimes it is. Sometimes something that is old and works doesn't need fixing, and sometimes there are better ways of doing the same thing. It's not a black and white issue but a nuanced issue, and treating it as B&W old=good new=bad is the kind of toxic nostalgia I'm criticizing. It's not as much of an issue with fantasy gaming because diversity, creativity, and innovation has always been a thing in this genre. "Look how different my elves/dwarves/orcs/dryads/necromancers/whatever are from the stereotype! Look how unique my campaign setting is!"  That's great. I love the OSR. In other games we're saddled with shitty mechanics that don't support the intended themes and bloated messes of settings worshiped by religious nutjobs simply because of nostalgia.

With Star Frontiers (and other old TSR scifi IPs) in particular I'm thinking "these are some interesting ideas for alien races and settings, it would be a pity for them to be forgotten." I bought all the Star*Drive novels because I find the setting interesting and unique in the way it mixes together almost all imaginable scifi tropes. I can appreciate old no longer supported settings that way.

  Regarding the Topic, sheep always bleat about a wolf, because to a sheep damn near everything is a wolf.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 20, 2022, 11:03:32 AM
Go to your profile > modify profile > ignore list and add the fucker to it.

Thank you!

Quote from: oggsmash on May 21, 2022, 04:16:11 PM
  Regarding the Topic, sheep always bleat about a wolf, because to a sheep damn near everything is a wolf.

Agreed. The blatant attempt to "mobilize" on the word of a loser whose tagline is, "I'm just here to make fun of you" speaks volumes for the worthlessness of the WOKE.

So...have they published a game yet?

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on May 22, 2022, 04:02:13 AM
So...have they published a game yet?

Nah! They don't have time, what with spending all this time on their social media feeds, challenging large corporate entities in the law courts, running a museum.......

Quote from: jeff37923 on May 20, 2022, 02:21:54 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on May 20, 2022, 01:09:40 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 20, 2022, 12:01:57 PM
Nostalgia is probably the reason. Tabletop gamers are very nostalgia-driven and will stay with properties solely out of that feeling even if it becomes unrecognizable. They're very selective in their nostalgia too and will have nostalgia for versions of their favorite game that only existed in their heads. They'll ignore genuine absurdities in their fav games that they wouldn't tolerate elsewhere.

I speak from experience. It's a toxic mindset that poisons you. I broke out of it and now I'm critical of nostalgia and these old properties. IMO, we should make new games with the benefit of hindsight and all the technical innovation that has happened since. We should embrace a diversity of settings rather than let monopolies hold sway.

Very interesting observations. Nostalgia does hit hard. It's the reason I bought into DCC. You're right about technical innovation. There are a few newer systems that really nail dice mechanics and probably get overlooked by many because they don't use a d20.

Oh, for fuck's sake! Not this bullshit again....

What is new is not necessarily better and if it is old and works, why fix it? Not to mention that the games that are played out of 'nostalgia' use d6 or d10 with not even a glance at the d20.

Why do I get the feeling that I've been gaming for longer than either of you have been alive?

You grogs are way too sensitive about the "nostalgia" issue. There's nothing wrong with a little nostalgia. I started playing Holmes Basic over 40 years ago. The other day, I looked at a PDF file of this game, to jog my memory.....and it brought back some good memories, some good feelings. My point is, nobody here is saying that you only like your old elf game from the 1970's.....because you started playing it when you were 12. But nostalgia has been used in deeply cynical ways, in order to sell things that people don't really want. If 4e didn't have the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS TRADEMARK, then practically nobody would have noticed it or played it.

People's attachments to TRADEMARKS are often tied into....NOSTALGIA. That's not wrong. It just is what it is. No bigee. It doesn't mean your old favorite rpg sucks.