Quote from: Benoist;751112I am all ears!

They have my attention alright. Pray tell. What is this awesome revolutionary thing that makes a starter set complete, without apps, without digital anything, without third party products or whatnot, while not including character gen? Inquiring minds want to know!

Whatever the answer, I'm going to be floored by it, I can tell.

Look I don't get it either given how hard is it to Mentzer/Moldvay? 4 races explained 4 classes explained pick 1 of each either use this array of numbers or roll 4d6 drop 1 and arrange to taste and pick 2 cantrips and one 1st level spell if wizard or cleric?

No feats or whatever unless hardcoded into the race/class descriptions. Thing is to a 3/4e guy that isn't character generation. To you and I? Sure it is.

If anything, it might be an indication of how complex the character generation process is.

If it were Moldvay/Mentzer-level simple, they would have included it, right?

It'd be hard for it to be simpler than those, and I think from the playtest it's clear that there's more to it than that.

It's still pretty simple, at least with the core classes.  Like the post I made earlier (yesterday).  You could fit a level 1-5 class on half a page easily, and still include most if not all of the class abilities that's in Next right now.

Quote from: Haffrung;751085And how do you know they'll find a game without character generation in the box totally fucking useless? Maybe most would prefer to run with pre-gens for their first few sessions. Or they'll find a digital character generation tool preferable to dice and a pad of paper. Don't let your own experience as a 12-year-old color what those kids today want or expect.

Well you're welcome to buy crippleware advertisements and see how that works out. But not with my money. I respect my money and the people I give things as gifts more, and I am a discriminating customer.

Quote from: Benoist;751093I just won't do it when I have a choice between that, or the Pathfinder intro box, or hunting down older sets on eBay for cheaper with the assurance that they'll actually provide an all-in-one starter to the kids I know are interested in giving RPGs a try on their own.

Yes, get the introductory game you think is best.  I think it is pretty cool you give them out to kids getting them into the hobby.

Well my thought process is if they include Pregens then they need to explain how to use them. the ability "turn undead" on a cleric pregen for example is useless if they don't tell you what that does. Therefore 4 classes will be explained abit simplified. chances are so will 4 of the races, which in turn will have abilities otherwise its useless and thus will be explained ie my dwarf fighter can see in the dark because hes a dwarf. Therefore you will have 4 classes and 4 races. the character generation is thus by understanding the pregens instead of two pages in the book. everything else is not mechanical except spells but most people chose the same 2 anyways.
Of course Im probably wrong but I think I'll wait before I declare that DnD is dead and the sky is falling, and yada yada.

Quote from: CitrusMagic;751407Of course Im probably wrong but I think I'll wait before I declare that DnD is dead and the sky is falling, and yada yada.

What's wrong with you??

This is the perfect time to get out the torch and pitchfork!!

Quote from: Endless Flight;751414This is the perfect time to get out the torch and pitchfork!!

Well after all that went down with 4e my pitchfork is all dull and gunky

Quote from: Bobloblah;751059In spite of no longer having any desire, whatsoever, to play or DM Pathfinder ever again, I still recommend and gift the Pathfinder Beginner Box because it is such a good introduction to D&D-type RPGs.

Yeah, me too. And it looks like that won't change when 5e comes out.

Edit: I've said this before, but all WoTC had to do was copy Paizo. Paizo took a risk with a deluxe $35 starter set crammed full of stuff. WoTC could now do the same knowing that that works. WoTC know their $20 4e Essentials set was widely reviled; and while people bought it, they didn't then upgrade to proper 4e. That's what you get with a cheap crappy starter set.

I expect that this 5e set surely won't be as crap as the 4e one. I'm also pretty sure they're making a big mistake in not copying Paizo's lead.