The setting was always much more awesome than the system.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;894664I think another part of the issue was that there are no really iconic SR characters, at least none that are Adventurer class.  Now, if they made several variants of generic Ork, Troll, Elf and so on and so forth, it might have worked better.

Whaaa ? What do you consider Fastjack, Hatchetman, Neon Samurai, Matador, Dodger, Sally Tsung and Ghost-Who-Walks to be ? :eek:

The Iconics used somewhat in D&D and much more successfully in Pathfinder are more than just Named NPCs.  They are a character template, a living archetype.  Yeah you can build fighters a lot of different ways, but Regdar and Valeros as character builds are meant to be the go-to build, the meat-and-potatoes PC of that type.  Pathfinder embraced this to a greater degree by having pre-built Iconic builds where you customize maybe a couple things on the rise to 20.

While the Named NPCs in Shadowrun that you name above are all important NPCs within the setting, we never really see their stats.  As such, they don't really qualify as "Iconic PCs" which are meant to be there not as much for their setting impact, but for their system examples.

[pedant]BTW it's Ghost Who Walks Inside :cool:[/pedant]

Quote from: Itachi;895766Whaaa ? What do you consider Fastjack, Hatchetman, Neon Samurai, Matador, Dodger, Sally Tsung and Ghost-Who-Walks to be ? :eek:

Inconsequential one offs that rarely show up in more than one medium (often they're handled as posters on a 'forum' topic in a book.  Or in rulebook fiction that a lot of people skip.)  They never actually overshadow the PC's in this regard (which in my maybe not-so-humble opinion is a good thing.)  But for making an iconic line of character figures or dolls?  Not memorable enough.

There has been a recent (SR5, so "the last couple years") move towards introducing some iconics.  The crew from the cover art of the SR5 core book (and the intro fiction) show up lots of other places;  they're the sample characters detailed and dossiered in the Beginner Box and Alphaware Toolkit (and featured in fiction in there), they're the intro fic for the Crossfire card game (and feature in artwork there), the intro fic for the new Seattle Sprawl box set features them, and they're going recurring characters in at least two novels (and counting, they'll likely appear in Anarchy as sample characters, for instance).  

So it's a lacking that we're aware of, and one we're trying to patch over a bit.  They're not overshadowing anybody (they're actually pretty close to starting characters as presented in the Beginner Box, for instance), but we are trying to go for that 'iconic' feel, with recurring characters from each archetype and metarace.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;894664I think another part of the issue was that there are no really iconic SR characters, at least none that are Adventurer class.  Now, if they made several variants of generic Ork, Troll, Elf and so on and so forth, it might have worked better.

How so? They had the Elven Decker, the Orc Mercenary in 1e? 1e could have done with more diversity I thought but they had at least some iconics there. What did 2 and 3e present or not?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;895880Inconsequential one offs that rarely show up in more than one medium (often they're handled as posters on a 'forum' topic in a book.  Or in rulebook fiction that a lot of people skip.)  They never actually overshadow the PC's in this regard (which in my maybe not-so-humble opinion is a good thing.)  But for making an iconic line of character figures or dolls?  Not memorable enough.

Dodger, Ghost, Kham and Sally appear in the first three novels. If you missed them consider yourself fortunate. Some of THE dumbest characters put to pen. Especially the protagonist. Kham appears in a later novel.

Quote from: Omega;896105How so? They had the Elven Decker, the Orc Mercenary in 1e? 1e could have done with more diversity I thought but they had at least some iconics there. What did 2 and 3e present or not?

I jumped in at 2e, got some 3e stuff, but I can't actually remember any interesting characters.  Even the newer computer RPGs I don't remember more than a couple of the NPCs and I admit I need to go back and play those, lot's of fun.  If lacking in certain things.  Again, I think it's a strength of SR, to not have a Morgan Blackhand or Elminster or the Drizzle...  Uh, Drizz't Do'Urden that can take up the players mind, it allows players to BE their own iconics.  No nagging thoughts of who lives where, and should they visit them or not.

Quote from: Omega;896108Dodger, Ghost, Kham and Sally appear in the first three novels. If you missed them consider yourself fortunate. Some of THE dumbest characters put to pen. Especially the protagonist. Kham appears in a later novel.

I read a few, back in the 90s.  Don't recall much, other than one dealt with an ex-Lone Star operative.

Yeah. Each novel author had their own character/s. But none ever took off that I was aware of. Ghost, Dodger and Striper are all I can recall. Sally early on was being hyped for some odd reason. Wizkids apparently put out some books to promote the action figure game. But fairly obscure.

Quote from: Omega;896108Dodger, Ghost, Kham and Sally appear in the first three novels. If you missed them consider yourself fortunate. Some of THE dumbest characters put to pen. Especially the protagonist. Kham appears in a later novel.

Yeah Dodger joining the team in Brainscan was the biggest let down of that whole campaign path.  The people who slavishly loved the fiction were all drooling and kowtowing and the people who had no idea who he was were like "who the hell is this asshole? we aren't a Ren Faire."  For those who don't know Dodger is positioned as an Elven decker who is just better than you'll ever be and always speaks with thees and thous.  Also by this point in Brainscan the team has done some pretty incredible things and are pretty much in Prime Runner territory themselves.

I thought Dodger was ok overall in the books at least. Ghost was ok. Just underused. Sally for some reason just got on my nerves and Kham seemed to get screwed over alot. Dysfunctional families/relationships seemed to be Charrette's shtick in the SR books.