Maybe Hasbro stepped in when they saw the law suit?

Quote from: sureshot on December 22, 2020, 09:35:03 AM
...
Another "diversity" hire I see no clue to what they are doing yet they checked off a few boxes on the diversity and inclusivity list. Funny how his novel is not "problamatic" yet suddenly the new manuscript is. Nice to see Wotc bend the knee for the right reasons for once.

What made it even more rich was that they replaced two women with two men! And yeah, I'm sure that guy still has his job, because "same team". So his novel is not seen as "problematic".

What's viewed as truly unforgivable is when Hickman and Weis 'race flipped' native American culture in DL. This is used to point out the fundamental racism inherent in the DL setting. Because 'race flipping' a POC to someone with Caucasian features is unforgivable cultural appropriation bad-wrong-fun. This view is strongly held by the same people who love the play "Hamilton", and think that Idris Elba should have been the next James Bond, and if you don't think that is a good idea it is because you are a racist.

Quote from: Shasarak on December 22, 2020, 04:00:36 PM
Maybe Hasbro stepped in when they saw the law suit?

I agree with your reading of the entrails. WOTC has seemed particularly fond of playing contract games lately that have gotten them sued.

And this is the only one so far where they haven't stuck to their guns.

Quote from: Jaeger on December 22, 2020, 04:52:17 PM

What made it even more rich was that they replaced two women with two men! And yeah, I'm sure that guy still has his job, because "same team". So his novel is not seen as "problematic".

Wait, what did I miss?

What two women?  Margaret Weiss and who else?

I think I missed part of this story.

Quote from: Two Crows on December 23, 2020, 07:53:44 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on December 22, 2020, 04:52:17 PM

What made it even more rich was that they replaced two women with two men! And yeah, I'm sure that guy still has his job, because "same team". So his novel is not seen as "problematic".

Wait, what did I miss?

What two women?  Margaret Weiss and who else?

I think I missed part of this story.

The original editorial team that did the approvals for the new DL novels Hickman and Weis were writing was made up of two naturally born women who were long time WOTC employees.

Hickman and Weis had minimal to Zero approval issues when working with this editorial team at WOTC.

Then after the first novel was approved by WOTC, and sent to the publisher to be readied for publication, WOTC switched personnel.

The editorial team made up of two middle aged naturally born women, was replaced by two men. One of which wrote what WOTC has evidently deemed a non-problematic novel about some middle aged guy sleeping with 16 year old girls in Amsterdam.

A 'diversity' hire?

You decide...

That's when the shit show started. The manuscript that was previously approved for print now had to to go through a series of massive re-writes because the 'new' editorial team was able to zero in on tons of 'problematic' content in the books that the previous team of middle aged naturally born women somehow missed.

Evidently no amount of re-writes could make the new DL novel woke enough. So this new team along with WOTC decided it would be best if they stop approvals altogether as a back door way to terminate their licensing agreement with Hickman and Weis.

Hickman and Weis are not un-poor, nor are they some internet rando's who quake in fear at case and desist letters.

So they sued the fuckers. For millions.

Evidently someone in the WOTC/HASBRO sphere possesses brain cells, and has made some kind of agreement with Hickman and Weis.

Quote from: Opaopajr on December 22, 2020, 09:58:27 AM
That said, I would not mind a return to Dragonlance. I never got into it myself, but apparently it is an epic tale of good v evil. Those tend to inspire the youth. 

   It looks like it on the surface, and is in the game material, but if you go deeper into the novels that have come to define the setting, it's more about self-knowledge/self-realization, the need for everyone to follow their own path, and the moral superiority of the marginalized over the inevitably corrupt privileged.

  In short, it is absolutely perfect for WotC if they just realized it. 

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on December 23, 2020, 09:27:13 PM

Quote from: Opaopajr on December 22, 2020, 09:58:27 AM
That said, I would not mind a return to Dragonlance. I never got into it myself, but apparently it is an epic tale of good v evil. Those tend to inspire the youth. 

   It looks like it on the surface, and is in the game material, but if you go deeper into the novels that have come to define the setting, it's more about self-knowledge/self-realization, the need for everyone to follow their own path, and the moral superiority of the marginalized over the inevitably corrupt privileged.

  In short, it is absolutely perfect for WotC if they just realized it. 

That would require them to acknowledge someone outside their little circles wrote something useful.

This is the exact same idiocy plaguing BBC America's adaptation of 'The Watch'. Pratchett tackled progressive issues with style, grace, and subtlety -- slipping things by and surprising readers. So of course, the BBCA adaptation is a godforsaken atrocity, a bad parody of the books.

It would not surprise me in the slightest to see WotC butcher Dragonlance the same way.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on December 23, 2020, 09:27:13 PM

Quote from: Opaopajr on December 22, 2020, 09:58:27 AM
That said, I would not mind a return to Dragonlance. I never got into it myself, but apparently it is an epic tale of good v evil. Those tend to inspire the youth. 

   It looks like it on the surface, and is in the game material, but if you go deeper into the novels that have come to define the setting, it's more about self-knowledge/self-realization, the need for everyone to follow their own path, and the moral superiority of the marginalized over the inevitably corrupt privileged.

  In short, it is absolutely perfect for WotC if they just realized it. 

Onyx Paths's 5E and Pathfinder treatment of the Scarred Lands setting is similar.

Either they failed to see the subtlely and ambiguity of the treatment of the Titanspawn (monster ) races in the 3E setting, or they assumed their audience was too thick to get it - or a little of both.  So now we have 'redeemed' monster races, which have been basically been reduced to furries. 

Really this is the biggest change in values over the last generation in media and popular culture.  It isn't really that the politics has changed - for most part these industries were as dominated by left wing people then as they are now- it's that there's been a long war on any sense of subtlety and ambiguity.  There's an ever increasing lack of respect for the audiences ability to decide things for themselves and therefore an increasing dumbing down of content.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on December 23, 2020, 09:27:13 PM
   It looks like it on the surface, and is in the game material, but if you go deeper into the novels that have come to define the setting, it's more about self-knowledge/self-realization, the need for everyone to follow their own path, and the moral superiority of the marginalized over the inevitably corrupt privileged.

  In short, it is absolutely perfect for WotC if they just realized it. 

Seconded.

Except the SJWs seem to be the ones Wotc both listens too and also wants to hire.

Not to mention if you listen to the same SJws. If you White you don't get a say what should be in the novels. Even if you are a huge fan. Going to other places like Enworld is an eye opener to the cesspits of SJws. Many of them should never play out of their gaming circles or they will be thrown out of most new gaming groups. Imagine some rando SJW coming into one group telling them that can't play certain character concepts and if one does they are irredeemably racist. It's not going to sit well with most normal player groups.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on December 23, 2020, 10:38:17 PM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on December 23, 2020, 09:27:13 PM

Quote from: Opaopajr on December 22, 2020, 09:58:27 AM
That said, I would not mind a return to Dragonlance. I never got into it myself, but apparently it is an epic tale of good v evil. Those tend to inspire the youth. 

   It looks like it on the surface, and is in the game material, but if you go deeper into the novels that have come to define the setting, it's more about self-knowledge/self-realization, the need for everyone to follow their own path, and the moral superiority of the marginalized over the inevitably corrupt privileged.

  In short, it is absolutely perfect for WotC if they just realized it. 

That would require them to acknowledge someone outside their little circles wrote something useful.

This is the exact same idiocy plaguing BBC America's adaptation of 'The Watch'. Pratchett tackled progressive issues with style, grace, and subtlety -- slipping things by and surprising readers. So of course, the BBCA adaptation is a godforsaken atrocity, a bad parody of the books.

It would not surprise me in the slightest to see WotC butcher Dragonlance the same way.

:crankyoldguy:
WOTC butchers every fictional property they touch.  GH, DS, DL, FR, RL, GW, etc. I think the last time I was impressed with the way they handled something they bought was the 1998 Greyhawk  The Adventure Begins and the Player's Guide (which were already in works at TSR). Then SKR screwed the pooch with his piss poor adventures and "contributions" to the setting.

and the rest is history

Edit- Not that I'm a huge fan, I read the book 20+ years ago- but I recall them doing a good job with The Wheel of Time, RPG, short lived as it was.

Quote from: Jaeger on December 23, 2020, 08:23:50 PM

Quote from: Two Crows on December 23, 2020, 07:53:44 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on December 22, 2020, 04:52:17 PM

What made it even more rich was that they replaced two women with two men! And yeah, I'm sure that guy still has his job, because "same team". So his novel is not seen as "problematic".

Wait, what did I miss?

What two women?  Margaret Weiss and who else?

I think I missed part of this story.

The original editorial team that did the approvals for the new DL novels Hickman and Weis were writing was made up of two naturally born women who were long time WOTC employees.

Ah.  Now I see.
Thanks.


It sounds like the new people wanted to replace the manuscript with a womanscript? 

Am I right?

HA!










... is this thing on?

So. The lawsuit was cancelled without prejudice. Seems Hasbro/WotC paid 'em off.

Is this bad for the industry?

Quote from: Theory of Games on December 25, 2020, 12:36:03 PM
So. The lawsuit was cancelled without prejudice. Seems Hasbro/WotC paid 'em off.

Is this bad for the industry?

The wording makes it sound bad, but what that translates into is "We dropped the lawsuit without conditions."  [Presumably due to good news/settlement.]  "We reserve the right to bring the lawsuit again if need be."  If the lawsuit brought pressure for WotC to settle or abide by their contract, then it did its job.

Quote from: zircher on December 25, 2020, 01:00:31 PM

Quote from: Theory of Games on December 25, 2020, 12:36:03 PM
So. The lawsuit was cancelled without prejudice. Seems Hasbro/WotC paid 'em off.

Is this bad for the industry?

The wording makes it sound bad, but what that translates into is "We dropped the lawsuit without conditions."  [Presumably due to good news/settlement.]  "We reserve the right to bring the lawsuit again if need be."  If the lawsuit brought pressure for WotC to settle or abide by their contract, then it did its job.

Yeah. Hasbro has deep pockets. My concern is freelancers contracted by Hasbro being thrown to the wind when WotC wants to aquire exclusive rights to their work. It's evil.

Expect WotC to advance a Dragonlance setting, because they bought the rights in this presumed settlement. Of course, the setting will be SJW-safe.

Quote from: Theory of Games on December 25, 2020, 01:24:23 PM
Yeah. Hasbro has deep pockets. My concern is freelancers contracted by Hasbro being thrown to the wind when WotC wants to aquire exclusive rights to their work. It's evil.

Expect WotC to advance a Dragonlance setting, because they bought the rights in this presumed settlement. Of course, the setting will be SJW-safe.

Apparently WOTC does not have as much hold over Dragonlance as one would think otherwise they would have just muscled their way forward with the plans to make Dragonlance the setting for 5e, starting from the beginning, but changing the events. That did not happen after W&H got wind of it and the writer for it learned they were not on board for this.

WOTC really wants to use the Dragonlance setting as it would allow them to bypass Solomon's stranglehold on any D&D movies, including animations. But. He has to actually make D&D movies or lose the rights. And he has not done one since Book of Vile Darkness in 2012 far as I know. 8 years ago.

Greetings!

When I was looking over the legal thing, I think I recall Weiss and Hickman suing WOTC for 10 million dollars, plus all legal fees and expenses, and maybe more.

Seeing that WOTC settled without otherwise going to court--I imagine that Weiss and Hickman were paid very well, possibly a little less than what they demanded, but also potentially more. No matter what, though, the price tag that WOTC was forced to pay Weiss and Hickman was undoubtedly in the millions of dollars.

My guess is WOTC paid up 10-15 million dollars to Weiss and Hickman, and agreed that they wouldn't touch Dragonlance, and please, Weiss and Hickman, enjoy your money and please don't continue to fuck is in court, public opinion, and marketing circles.

WOTC really fucked this up royally, and any court case would likely go very poorly for them. Weiss and Hickman are very nice and professional people, they have been authors and designers in the fantasy and gaming industry for *decades*--going back to the early 1980's. They are the wrong people to be fucking with. They have written *dozens* of game modules and books--and sold *millions* of fantasy books, worldwide, again, for *decades*. Why the people at WOTC somehow couldn't think, "Hmmm...you know, we need to ensure we treat these folks here really, really well. Give them the royal treatment in everything!" is just mind boggling. When you consider Weiss and Hickman's reputations--pretty much anything they put their stamp on is a guaranteed profit maker, *instantly* by a huge margin, if only because of millions of nostalgic, legacy fans that buy virtually anything with their names on it, sight unseen. Majorly stupid move on the part of WOTC.

Just more evidence that SJW's fuck up everything they get involved with or touch. More fuckery and failures need to jam the industry though. Good, I say. Go broke, get fucked, over and over again, until someone with some damned sense comes to the realization that SJW's are a plague and will absolutely ruin any business you are involved with.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK