It was as if Christmas had come twice this year! A critical-role type dnd show featuring muppets sponsored by WoTC was attacked by SJWs for one of the muppets having large breasts. Then it all went horribly hilariously wrong for them!
"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."
H.L. Mencken
What pathetic, puerile, sad lives they must live to think going online to bash a puppet is time well spent.
A year ago these sociopaths were at some costuming cons and demanding an attendee in a mascot costume with a bit of curve be removed from the con as it was "too adult".
Hoist, petard, some assembly required.
This actually looks pretty funny and I might have to watch it.
Anyone care to give a TLDR for those who don't have the patience to watch a video?
A group posted their D&D session (scripted or not) performed by muppets. One of the muppets was a female dragonborn with ample boobs and formfitting armor.
SJW attack the obvious white male mother's basement dweller for sexist sexism or something because boobs! And Big!
Turns out the player was a female (of color) who modelled her character (Arieola Borealis) after herself.
So instead of exposing a sexist white male, they bodyshamed a FoC.
I don't know if there's more after that... I gave up after 7 minutes or so.
Hmm. No spoiler tags on this site? Here's the link to an image https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jFv1j2IUyVY/YBtBeld2RpI/AAAAAAAARvA/_sEgAXF9KSwa8sXzyHA585eMAd0AT_flwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1200/Stuff%2Bof%2BLegends.jpg
Eventually, these fools are going to run out of feet.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UXXtCpkeKiA/SxPl8O5DP4I/AAAAAAAAMKk/Ft8hqR6RzUc/s1600/shootfoot2.jpg)
Quote from: Godfather Punk on February 04, 2021, 09:17:37 AM(Arieola Borealis)
See, this right here means they're playing correctly.
Quote from: Godfather Punk on February 04, 2021, 09:17:37 AM
A group posted their D&D session (scripted or not) performed by muppets. One of the muppets was a female dragonborn with ample boobs and formfitting armor.
SJW attack the obvious white male mother's basement dweller for sexist sexism or something because boobs! And Big!
Turns out the player was a female (of color) who modelled her character (Arieola Borealis) after herself.
So instead of exposing a sexist white male, they bodyshamed a FoC.
I don't know if there's more after that... I gave up after 7 minutes or so.
Hmm. No spoiler tags on this site? Here's the link to an image https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jFv1j2IUyVY/YBtBeld2RpI/AAAAAAAARvA/_sEgAXF9KSwa8sXzyHA585eMAd0AT_flwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1200/Stuff%2Bof%2BLegends.jpg
Thanks!
and ...
LOL
WoTC's page https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/stuffoflegends - sadly Shanna Malcolm, the heroic player concerned, is demurely covered for her publicity pic. Here's one of her scandalising the SJWs with a hint of cleavage https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERb4BXkVUAImEp4.jpg
I'll take "Headlines I Never Thought I'd Read" for $400, Alex (in that great Studio in the Sky).
Thanks for this pundit. I needed a smile today. Their stupidity will never cease to amaze me.
Interesting.
I expected WotC's forward direction and the inevitable 6E to try and blend 'edgy transgressiveness' with 'woke conformity.' If what I'm hearing about this is an indication, they may be leaning into the former. Then again, design has been pushing the latter, so if this is coming out of marketing, maybe there's an internal tension or power struggle.
Ah, well. Still not interested in their products. :)
Pundit, I don't love all your videos, but I sure love this one. I actually had a hard time stopping laughing while watching this video, along with you. Oh my, this is seriously hilarious. If you had made this up as a fictional example I would have accused you of exaggeration for effect.
The only thing I want to know is where I can find the people who were complaining about Arieola Borealis to begin with, or who are now complaining because they've been embarrassed. I don't want to say anything to them, I just want to read their whines. [Edit - Ah, I found it, on the burning garbage pile known as Twitter. Hilarious. ]
Quote from: S'mon on February 04, 2021, 11:05:31 AM
WoTC's page https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/stuffoflegends - sadly Shanna Malcolm, the heroic player concerned, is demurely covered for her publicity pic. Here's one of her scandalising the SJWs with a hint of cleavage https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERb4BXkVUAImEp4.jpg
I wonder if they find the player's real world tiddies to be purile and gross as well? I read some comments on twitter where the puppet's fabric, fake, not real, breasts were, and I kid you not, triggering male to female transexuals. They were saying a puppet's fabric boobs made their body dysmorphia worse and therefore shouldn't be allowed. I truly wonder what real, live boobs of large size do to them... do they need to be hospitalized for the trauma? Is my ex a walking weapon of oppression and harm for being a woman with natural H cups?
I'm confused...
Were they upset about the puppet's puppies? ;D
*ducks*
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 04, 2021, 02:47:27 PMThey were saying a puppet's fabric boobs made their body dysmorphia worse and therefore shouldn't be allowed.
In fairness, the thought of disproportionately sized male genitalia also squicks
me out to the point I'd rather not have any examples thereof rubbed (figuratively) in my face by the media, either. My mental health isn't dependent on the issue, thankfully, but if it were, I wouldn't feel out of line asking for a media environment I could count on being safe from it.
Insisting that
all media environments be thus sanitized by law is a considerably more questionable position. If you can't take the heat, I won't make you stay in my kitchen; I just ask you don't tear my kitchen down to keep anyone from ever wandering in there again.
(https://i.imgur.com/RSCgi61.png)
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 04, 2021, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 04, 2021, 11:05:31 AM
WoTC's page https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/stuffoflegends - sadly Shanna Malcolm, the heroic player concerned, is demurely covered for her publicity pic. Here's one of her scandalising the SJWs with a hint of cleavage https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERb4BXkVUAImEp4.jpg
I wonder if they find the player's real world tiddies to be purile and gross as well? I read some comments on twitter where the puppet's fabric, fake, not real, breasts were, and I kid you not, triggering male to female transexuals. They were saying a puppet's fabric boobs made their body dysmorphia worse and therefore shouldn't be allowed. I truly wonder what real, live boobs of large size do to them... do they need to be hospitalized for the trauma? Is my ex a walking weapon of oppression and harm for being a woman with natural H cups?
God. While I have empathy for people who suffer from body dysphoria, the alchemy of identity politics and trangender issues is one of the most toxic things I have ever seen.
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 04, 2021, 02:47:27 PM
I wonder if they find the player's real world tiddies to be purile and gross as well? I read some comments on twitter where the puppet's fabric, fake, not real, breasts were, and I kid you not, triggering male to female transexuals. They were saying a puppet's fabric boobs made their body dysmorphia worse and therefore shouldn't be allowed. I truly wonder what real, live boobs of large size do to them... do they need to be hospitalized for the trauma? Is my ex a walking weapon of oppression and harm for being a woman with natural H cups?
That's not real...if it is, then we've truly entered Clown World.
Greetings!
The SJW's are delusional morons. Everyone needs to reject them, and ruthlessly mock them at every opportunity.
Most reasonable, normal people have a sense of humour, and also like sex. Lots of women have a sense of humour as well, love sex, and are quite proud of having large boobs.
Why does anyone even care what SJW's are offended by? They are offended by white people. They are offended by heterosexuals. They are offended by normal women.
They are filled with insanity and hatred.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I won't be sufficiently amused until the SJWs hurl themselves off rooftops en masse like the lemmings they are.
Hopefully the Twatter garbage will double down on their attacks on WotC, and even better, do everything possible to convince potential players the D&D hobby is nothing but freaks of the weak.
Watching those who WotC pandered to become the weapon of WotC's destruction is juicy beyond words.
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on February 04, 2021, 12:54:10 PM
Thanks for this pundit. I needed a smile today. Their stupidity will never cease to amaze me.
Thank you! Share the video!
Quote from: Mistwell on February 04, 2021, 02:38:13 PM
Pundit, I don't love all your videos, but I sure love this one. I actually had a hard time stopping laughing while watching this video, along with you. Oh my, this is seriously hilarious. If you had made this up as a fictional example I would have accused you of exaggeration for effect.
The only thing I want to know is where I can find the people who were complaining about Arieola Borealis to begin with, or who are now complaining because they've been embarrassed. I don't want to say anything to them, I just want to read their whines. [Edit - Ah, I found it, on the burning garbage pile known as Twitter. Hilarious. ]
Yeah, for anyone else curious, start by looking at the official Dungeons & Dragons twitter (not WoTC, Dungeons and Dragons as a brand), when they announce their sponsorship of the show, and see all the SJWs jump in with attacking D&D/WoTC for the large-boobed muppet.
My only real reaction is that it's hilarious seeing huge boobs on what looks to be a Fraggle. It made me laugh a little, and nobody died, so I'm cool with it. I remember back when Shanna Malcolm first got famous on YouTube as one of the friends Shane Dawson would regularly hang out with at the time. And we all know what happened to him. :P I find it funny that her character looks like one of the Fraggles, who, much like Shanna herself, got a lot of help from a trash heap. ;)
Also, between Shanna, Brandon, and Lisa . . . how had I not heard about this yet? Almost makes me want to get YouTube famous myself so I can get an invite. Almost.
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 04, 2021, 02:47:27 PMThey were saying a puppet's fabric boobs made their body dysmorphia worse and therefore shouldn't be allowed. I truly wonder what real, live boobs of large size do to them...
I thought the whole point of body dysmorphia was that it was about
your own body, not the bodies of other people. This makes no sense whatsoever.
Quote from: Brad on February 04, 2021, 10:32:33 AM
Quote from: Godfather Punk on February 04, 2021, 09:17:37 AM(Arieola Borealis)
See, this right here means they're playing correctly.
And if that's not problematic enough, the Kuo-toa character is called Slippy Richardson. (Slippy Dickson to his friends.) He spends most of the first session naked and trying to cover some goblins with his skin poison - while Ari and the pirate character "double team" another goblin. I can see why it sent the social justice crowd doolally.
Quote from: GeekEclectic on February 04, 2021, 10:53:36 PM
I thought the whole point of body dysmorphia was that it was about your own body, not the bodies of other people. This makes no sense whatsoever.
Yup. That is totally not how body dysphoria/dysmorphia works. Anorexia nervosa isn't triggered by other people, it's triggered by your own (damaged) self image.
Yeah the insane mentally ill offended by the character and twitters are sad to see the least and an embarrassment to the hobby. Children in people bodies I mean give me a break now fake puppets cause people to be more mentally ill. Fuck off and go see a mental health care specialist.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on February 05, 2021, 08:19:04 AM
Quote from: GeekEclectic on February 04, 2021, 10:53:36 PM
I thought the whole point of body dysmorphia was that it was about your own body, not the bodies of other people. This makes no sense whatsoever.
Yup. That is totally not how body dysphoria/dysmorphia works. Anorexia nervosa isn't triggered by other people, it's triggered by your own (damaged) self image.
That is, however, how victimhood works.
Quote from: RandyB on February 05, 2021, 10:46:09 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on February 05, 2021, 08:19:04 AM
Quote from: GeekEclectic on February 04, 2021, 10:53:36 PM
I thought the whole point of body dysmorphia was that it was about your own body, not the bodies of other people. This makes no sense whatsoever.
Yup. That is totally not how body dysphoria/dysmorphia works. Anorexia nervosa isn't triggered by other people, it's triggered by your own (damaged) self image.
That is, however, how victimhood works.
Well, I would call it 'narcissistic self-pity' but eh, I think we're on the same page here :)
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 04, 2021, 09:59:50 PMYeah, for anyone else curious, start by looking at the official Dungeons & Dragons twitter (not WoTC, Dungeons and Dragons as a brand), when they announce their sponsorship of the show, and see all the SJWs jump in with attacking D&D/WoTC for the large-boobed muppet.
I have a bad feeling WOTC will either
A: drop the show because its "problematic"
or
B: pressure the show to change the designs because it is "problematic"
Probably B as they can leverage pressure with money.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on February 05, 2021, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: RandyB on February 05, 2021, 10:46:09 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on February 05, 2021, 08:19:04 AM
Quote from: GeekEclectic on February 04, 2021, 10:53:36 PM
I thought the whole point of body dysmorphia was that it was about your own body, not the bodies of other people. This makes no sense whatsoever.
Yup. That is totally not how body dysphoria/dysmorphia works. Anorexia nervosa isn't triggered by other people, it's triggered by your own (damaged) self image.
That is, however, how victimhood works.
Well, I would call it 'narcissistic self-pity' but eh, I think we're on the same page here :)
To-MAY-to, to-MAH-to. :)
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 04, 2021, 02:47:27 PM
Is my ex a walking weapon of oppression and harm for being a woman with natural H cups?
I know mine is! ;D
Wasn't the character created as a parody? Because the name and design definitely looks like a parody.
Who even takes that sort of stuff seriously anymore? I burst out laughing the moment I say her.
Could people just, like, let people play the game and quit ruining their fun? Who CARES if her muppet has big mammaries?
Quote from: Brigman on February 07, 2021, 12:19:30 AM
Could people just, like, let people play the game and quit ruining their fun? Who CARES if her muppet has big mammaries?
Apparently, the answer is "No".
Quote from: Brigman on February 07, 2021, 12:19:30 AM
Could people just, like, let people play the game and quit ruining their fun? Who CARES if her muppet has big mammaries?
Fortunately, those people have outed themselves on social media. All you need to do is avoid them like the plague.
Quote from: mightybrain on February 07, 2021, 09:17:19 AM
Quote from: Brigman on February 07, 2021, 12:19:30 AM
Could people just, like, let people play the game and quit ruining their fun? Who CARES if her muppet has big mammaries?
Fortunately, those people have outed themselves on social media. All you need to do is avoid them like the plague.
So lockdowns and masking?
Either that or painting the doorways with lamb's blood, consult your physician for the best course of action. :-)
I think Dave Chappelle said it best: "I support anyone's right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?"
Quote from: Brigman on February 07, 2021, 12:19:30 AM
Could people just, like, let people play the game and quit ruining their fun? Who CARES if her muppet has big mammaries?
The Moral (outrage) Guardians care. Aleena in BECMI having breasts sent them into outrage. Drow having breasts sent them into outrage. Dragonborn, double outrage! and so on ad nausium.
They tried to pull this with Isaac Asimov way back in TZ magazine and he told them to take out a loan and buy a clue. Just less politely. Then tossed more breasts in the magazine.
Hell we've had these types here on this fora going on about how we have to remove all these offensive things. "Think of the Children!" and "It is for your own good. You will thank us later!" and of course "So people will respect us!" And its ever these two battlecries on the banner of censorship. We see it periodically in the art and comic circles too and even board gaming has had sporatic popups of this and the BGG site covertly censors any game they deem "offensive".
Quote from: Omega on February 07, 2021, 06:45:51 PMThe Moral (outrage) Guardians care. Aleena in BECMI having breasts sent them into outrage.
Not breasts. It was the soft, flowing tabard!
Quote from: Sarah Dark MagicTo me, the purpose of the tabard is to soften her and to play cat and mouse with the viewer. The pose is opened up to give greater access to her inner thighs but the "money shot" is hidden behind the soft, flowing tabard.
https://www.sarahdarkmagic.com/content/g-conversation
Quote from: Aglondir on February 07, 2021, 09:08:14 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 07, 2021, 06:45:51 PMThe Moral (outrage) Guardians care. Aleena in BECMI having breasts sent them into outrage.
Not breasts. It was the soft, flowing tabard!
Quote from: Sarah Dark MagicTo me, the purpose of the tabard is to soften her and to play cat and mouse with the viewer. The pose is opened up to give greater access to her inner thighs but the "money shot" is hidden behind the soft, flowing tabard.
https://www.sarahdarkmagic.com/content/g-conversation
Fuck man. Now I'm all hot and bothered.
Seriously, I am not an inclusive gamer. I don't go out of my way to offend, and I tend to run a PG-13 rated game.
But I have no issue with big boobs and bare midrifts and typically feminine portrayals of women. I just am not limited to them.
If that bothers someone, they can go find another group more to their tastes. And gnaw at each other with their issues and hangups.
That article trying to sexualize Aleena just makes me laugh.
Quote from: Aglondir on February 07, 2021, 09:08:14 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 07, 2021, 06:45:51 PMThe Moral (outrage) Guardians care. Aleena in BECMI having breasts sent them into outrage.
Not breasts. It was the soft, flowing tabard!
Quote from: Sarah Dark MagicTo me, the purpose of the tabard is to soften her and to play cat and mouse with the viewer. The pose is opened up to give greater access to her inner thighs but the "money shot" is hidden behind the soft, flowing tabard.
https://www.sarahdarkmagic.com/content/g-conversation
Trying to appease those that clearly full of self-loathing (i.e. Sarah Dark Magic) is a fool's errand. The only proper answer to her not feeling the art was inclusive of her is "that's because the harpy is in the Monster Manual."
Just for having to read her idiocy, I'm gonna make sure to add an extra image of a hot sorceress type in skin-tight leather to my system book's list of needed artwork.
Quote from: Chris24601 on February 07, 2021, 10:58:58 PM
Trying to appease those that clearly full of self-loathing (i.e. Sarah Dark Magic) is a fool's errand. The only proper answer to her not feeling the art was inclusive of her is "that's because the harpy is in the Monster Manual."
Just for having to read her idiocy, I'm gonna make sure to add an extra image of a hot sorceress type in skin-tight leather to my system book's list of needed artwork.
;D ;D ;D Thanks, I needed the laugh. 'Hot Sorceresses in Skin-tight Leather' should be a game title, just to make people's heads explode.
Quote from: zircher on February 08, 2021, 12:23:04 AM
;D ;D ;D Thanks, I needed the laugh. 'Hot Sorceresses in Skin-tight Leather' should be a game title, just to make people's heads explode.
Isn't that one of the expansions for
Kung-Fu CB Mamas on Wheels vs. the Aztec Motorcycle Wrestling Nuns?
Now TBH in terms of those old graphics of Aleena I have to agree in general judgement with this Sarah WhateverMagic - this costume is maybe tame compared to some most rampant examples, but ultimately it's ridiculous.
She was created by Frank Mentzer and drawn by Larry Elmore, she was going to look good regardless.
What's fascinating is the level of... repulsion, I guess? Shown by these morons. Still wonder how Elmore's avoided getting canceled, but then beating up (verbally at least) an old guy who's considered one of the patron saints of RPGs might not look very righteous.
Well it was nice to see the outrage brigade show themselves to not have a clue then try and make up excuses while also using mental health issues as a shield from their stupidity. You want to change your body go for it. Don't expect anyone to take you seriously when one is offended by a puppet of all things then wonder why everyone is making fun of your stupidity.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on February 08, 2021, 08:20:04 AM
She was created by Frank Mentzer and drawn by Larry Elmore, she was going to look good regardless.
What's fascinating is the level of... repulsion, I guess? Shown by these morons. Still wonder how Elmore's avoided getting canceled, but then beating up (verbally at least) an old guy who's considered one of the patron saints of RPGs might not look very righteous.
Larry Elmore and Clyde Caldwell were the epitome of D&D art for me back in the 80s. I guess I'm dating myself...
Quote from: Brigman on February 08, 2021, 10:48:45 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on February 08, 2021, 08:20:04 AM
She was created by Frank Mentzer and drawn by Larry Elmore, she was going to look good regardless.
What's fascinating is the level of... repulsion, I guess? Shown by these morons. Still wonder how Elmore's avoided getting canceled, but then beating up (verbally at least) an old guy who's considered one of the patron saints of RPGs might not look very righteous.
Larry Elmore and Clyde Caldwell were the epitome of D&D art for me back in the 80s. I guess I'm dating myself...
I have a copy of
The Complete Elmore, autographed by the man himself at Dragoncon a few years back.
You know, they bang on about how terrible that 80's art was (and yeah, some of it was silly), but it wasn't near as cringy as some think it was.
Ah, Tracey Hurley. I remember how I utterly roasted her for that when she first published it. She's a complete garbage human who engaged in vicious slander against me
Quote from: Aglondir on February 07, 2021, 09:08:14 PM
Quote from: Omega on February 07, 2021, 06:45:51 PMThe Moral (outrage) Guardians care. Aleena in BECMI having breasts sent them into outrage.
Not breasts. It was the soft, flowing tabard!
Quote from: Sarah Dark MagicTo me, the purpose of the tabard is to soften her and to play cat and mouse with the viewer. The pose is opened up to give greater access to her inner thighs but the "money shot" is hidden behind the soft, flowing tabard.
https://www.sarahdarkmagic.com/content/g-conversation
I missed that one, mercifully. But over on BGG as noted before theres been outcries over everything from showing the midriff to showing any skin at all practically. These types allways descend into ever more insane hoops they want everyone to jump through or be censored.
Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on February 08, 2021, 07:20:08 AM
Now TBH in terms of those old graphics of Aleena I have to agree in general judgement with this Sarah WhateverMagic - this costume is maybe tame compared to some most rampant examples, but ultimately it's ridiculous.
Your application for new site village idiot and troll is duly noted.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on February 08, 2021, 08:20:04 AMWhat's fascinating is the level of... repulsion, I guess? Shown by these morons. Still wonder how Elmore's avoided getting canceled, but then beating up (verbally at least) an old guy who's considered one of the patron saints of RPGs might not look very righteous.
He probably has come under fire. Just not as openly far as have seen aside from the Aleena thing. Back in the 90s the prior wave of this stupid would occasionally try to go after him but TSR/WOTC didnt kowtow then.
Quote from: Aglondir on February 07, 2021, 09:08:14 PMhttps://www.sarahdarkmagic.com/content/g-conversation
I think my favorite part is where she nitpicks the hair, saying she'd opt for a ponytail. As if this genre isn't full of art of
tons of dudes with impractically long, flowing locks, too.
QuoteYour application for new site village idiot and troll is duly noted.
Fine. What can I say. I was destroyed by mysterious Lodge of weapon/armour realistists, and spend way too time discussing how almost all A Song of Ice and Fire warfare and fighting is bad.
I used to read her blog. It was interesting to see a different perspective on D&D, with occasional articles showing off her coloring or the like. Then the occasional articles were like the one above, instead of coloring. After a short while every article was frothing social justice, so I stopped going.
Hard to imagine being that upset over the art in a 40 year old book.
Quote from: Conanist on February 09, 2021, 08:24:33 AM
I used to read her blog. It was interesting to see a different perspective on D&D, with occasional articles showing off her coloring or the like. Then the occasional articles were like the one above, instead of coloring. After a short while every article was frothing social justice, so I stopped going.
Hard to imagine being that upset over the art in a 40 year old book.
Someone once opined that leftists have a fetish for ugliness.
I'm not entirely sold on that line of thought, but I gotta admit, there does seem to be a bit of evidence in that direction.
Quote from: Conanist on February 09, 2021, 08:24:33 AMHard to imagine being that upset over the art in a 40 year old book.
Attacking the past is easier than improving the present.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on February 09, 2021, 08:35:37 AM
Someone once opined that leftists have a fetish for ugliness.
I'm not entirely sold on that line of thought, but I gotta admit, there does seem to be a bit of evidence in that direction.
I think the cause and effect runs the other way. A person that is only ugly on the surface can be transformed in the right circumstances. You see the beauty underneath and it changes the way you see the surface. Well, the same thing works in reverse when the ugly runs down into the core. No matter the appeal of the surface, sooner or later the ugly will out.
You see that directly in their view of games. Because they project all the time, the push their own ugliness onto anything they encounter. Their views of games really does say more about the speaker than about the game.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on February 09, 2021, 09:52:41 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on February 09, 2021, 08:35:37 AM
Someone once opined that leftists have a fetish for ugliness.
I'm not entirely sold on that line of thought, but I gotta admit, there does seem to be a bit of evidence in that direction.
I think the cause and effect runs the other way. A person that is only ugly on the surface can be transformed in the right circumstances. You see the beauty underneath and it changes the way you see the surface. Well, the same thing works in reverse when the ugly runs down into the core. No matter the appeal of the surface, sooner or later the ugly will out.
You see that directly in their view of games. Because they project all the time, the push their own ugliness onto anything they encounter. Their views of games really does say more about the speaker than about the game.
Ah, you're invoking Roald Dahl's wisdom on beauty and ugliness.
(https://www.afrobella.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Roald-Dahl-lovely-quote.jpg)
Which is not to say you're wrong, quite the opposite.
Did anyone see WotC official apology last week? I copied it (with commentary) on my blog: https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2021/02/wotc-apology-for-stuff-of-legends.html
That was pretty funny, Venger. You had me for a second there. :D
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on February 09, 2021, 09:52:41 PM
You see that directly in their view of games. Because they project all the time, the push their own ugliness onto anything they encounter. Their views of games really does say more about the speaker than about the game.
J. Eric Holmes said that gaming and the world created is a Rorschach test.
Quote from: Brigman on February 10, 2021, 03:19:33 PM
That was pretty funny, Venger. You had me for a second there. :D
;)
Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 04, 2021, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 04, 2021, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 04, 2021, 11:05:31 AM
WoTC's page https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/stuffoflegends - sadly Shanna Malcolm, the heroic player concerned, is demurely covered for her publicity pic. Here's one of her scandalising the SJWs with a hint of cleavage https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERb4BXkVUAImEp4.jpg
I wonder if they find the player's real world tiddies to be purile and gross as well? I read some comments on twitter where the puppet's fabric, fake, not real, breasts were, and I kid you not, triggering male to female transexuals. They were saying a puppet's fabric boobs made their body dysmorphia worse and therefore shouldn't be allowed. I truly wonder what real, live boobs of large size do to them... do they need to be hospitalized for the trauma? Is my ex a walking weapon of oppression and harm for being a woman with natural H cups?
God. While I have empathy for people who suffer from body dysphoria, the alchemy of identity politics and trangender issues is one of the most toxic things I have ever seen.
I agree whole heartedly. Just today I saw how the NHS in the UK can no long call breast feeding "breastfeeding" because it's traumatic to transgendered parents. They can no longer use terms like mother and father, as well as pregnant mother/woman. Its absolutely insane.
Quote from: Brad on February 04, 2021, 05:07:24 PM
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 04, 2021, 02:47:27 PM
I wonder if they find the player's real world tiddies to be purile and gross as well? I read some comments on twitter where the puppet's fabric, fake, not real, breasts were, and I kid you not, triggering male to female transexuals. They were saying a puppet's fabric boobs made their body dysmorphia worse and therefore shouldn't be allowed. I truly wonder what real, live boobs of large size do to them... do they need to be hospitalized for the trauma? Is my ex a walking weapon of oppression and harm for being a woman with natural H cups?
That's not real...if it is, then we've truly entered Clown World.
It's real. I should have kept the link. It was so awfully cringey that I had to assume they were either insane or trolling.
Quote from: mightybrain on February 05, 2021, 08:10:43 AM
Quote from: Brad on February 04, 2021, 10:32:33 AM
Quote from: Godfather Punk on February 04, 2021, 09:17:37 AM(Arieola Borealis)
See, this right here means they're playing correctly.
And if that's not problematic enough, the Kuo-toa character is called Slippy Richardson. (Slippy Dickson to his friends.) He spends most of the first session naked and trying to cover some goblins with his skin poison - while Ari and the pirate character "double team" another goblin. I can see why it sent the social justice crowd doolally.
Who hasn't had a game like that at one point though? Half the games as teenager were like that and worse, but I can't help but draw the correlation that as teens we were new to role playing and so are the muppet crew. Still, as long as everyone's having fun...
Quote from: GeekEclectic on February 04, 2021, 10:53:36 PM
My only real reaction is that it's hilarious seeing huge boobs on what looks to be a Fraggle. It made me laugh a little, and nobody died, so I'm cool with it. I remember back when Shanna Malcolm first got famous on YouTube as one of the friends Shane Dawson would regularly hang out with at the time. And we all know what happened to him. :P I find it funny that her character looks like one of the Fraggles, who, much like Shanna herself, got a lot of help from a trash heap. ;)
Also, between Shanna, Brandon, and Lisa . . . how had I not heard about this yet? Almost makes me want to get YouTube famous myself so I can get an invite. Almost.
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 04, 2021, 02:47:27 PMThey were saying a puppet's fabric boobs made their body dysmorphia worse and therefore shouldn't be allowed. I truly wonder what real, live boobs of large size do to them...
I thought the whole point of body dysmorphia was that it was about your own body, not the bodies of other people. This makes no sense whatsoever.
And yet it's these people with no grasp on conceivable reality that screech the loudest and get the woke followers enough to drive change in weak companies.
Quote from: S'mon on February 05, 2021, 03:31:41 PM
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 04, 2021, 02:47:27 PM
Is my ex a walking weapon of oppression and harm for being a woman with natural H cups?
I know mine is! ;D
Lol ;D
Quote from: VengerSatanis on February 10, 2021, 03:13:12 PM
Did anyone see WotC official apology last week? I copied it (with commentary) on my blog: https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2021/02/wotc-apology-for-stuff-of-legends.html
NEVER FORGET! TIDDY GATE 2021!
So this thread isn't about Gina Carano?
Quote from: MonsterSlayer on February 13, 2021, 01:51:30 AM
So this thread isn't about Gina Carano?
It depends : do you volunteer to call her a Muppet to her face ? :P
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 13, 2021, 12:35:47 AM
Quote from: VengerSatanis on February 10, 2021, 03:13:12 PM
Did anyone see WotC official apology last week? I copied it (with commentary) on my blog: https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2021/02/wotc-apology-for-stuff-of-legends.html
NEVER FORGET! TIDDY GATE 2021!
Never forget Tiddy Gate! It's right up there with the Tiddy Alamo!
As related before. Back in the 90s iteration of this stupid I was at ground zero when the moral guardians stepped up their campaign from bitching and trying to "cancel" people to actively sabotaging a major art and indie comic con. They got every comic artist they disapproved of censored at their tables and disapproved art removed from the gallery. Cosplayers were restricted or in a few cases outright denied. They even had armed security in the gaming room watching us.
Next year they had completely taken over the con and "fixed" it. A year later it was gone. A con that had been around over a decade. As of a year or so ago the new iteration of this stupid was at it again.
Quote from: Omega on February 13, 2021, 09:17:51 AM
As related before. Back in the 90s iteration of this stupid I was at ground zero when the moral guardians stepped up their campaign from bitching and trying to "cancel" people to actively sabotaging a major art and indie comic con. They got every comic artist they disapproved of censored at their tables and disapproved art removed from the gallery. Cosplayers were restricted or in a few cases outright denied. They even had armed security in the gaming room watching us.
Next year they had completely taken over the con and "fixed" it. A year later it was gone. A con that had been around over a decade. As of a year or so ago the new iteration of this stupid was at it again.
You mentioned the 90s. Well, my wife and older daughters watched PCU (short for Politically Correct University) circa 1994 last night. Amazingly, that movie is more relevant today in 2021 than it has been in the last 15 years. So many protests, angry college kids raging at "the machine" and each other, faculty actively trying to get certain groups kicked off campus, etc.
One of the few differences was that the suit-wearing young republicans were the bad guys (of course), and today they'd be fighting for free speech and equal opportunity to be heard.
Quote from: Omega on February 13, 2021, 09:17:51 AM
As related before. Back in the 90s iteration of this stupid I was at ground zero when the moral guardians stepped up their campaign from bitching and trying to "cancel" people to actively sabotaging a major art and indie comic con. They got every comic artist they disapproved of censored at their tables and disapproved art removed from the gallery. Cosplayers were restricted or in a few cases outright denied. They even had armed security in the gaming room watching us.
Next year they had completely taken over the con and "fixed" it. A year later it was gone. A con that had been around over a decade. As of a year or so ago the new iteration of this stupid was at it again.
Which convention was this?
Quote from: VengerSatanis on February 13, 2021, 09:23:27 AM
You mentioned the 90s. Well, my wife and older daughters watched PCU (short for Politically Correct University) circa 1994 last night. Amazingly, that movie is more relevant today in 2021 than it has been in the last 15 years. So many protests, angry college kids raging at "the machine" and each other, faculty actively trying to get certain groups kicked off campus, etc.
One of the few differences was that the suit-wearing young republicans were the bad guys (of course), and today they'd be fighting for free speech and equal opportunity to be heard.
That is something we've brought up on occasion here and elsewhere. That these moral guardians will flip flop sides at will, latching onto usually the underdog and running that group into the dirt such they are tomorrows oppression to fight.
As said. In 10 years the next iteration of this will almost certainly be damning this one just as this one damned the prior for doing nothing. And will themselves do nothing because these moral busybodies never do.
This thread needs more boobs, muppet or otherwise, I don't really care.
I think our society has a problem with simultaneously demonizing/sexualizing breasts based on size, from both sides of the political isle. I don't think this attitude has a positive effect on the psychological wellbeing of the female half of the population, but a formal study would be required to ascertain any measurable effects.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on February 13, 2021, 08:12:59 PM
I think our society has a problem with simultaneously demonizing/sexualizing breasts based on size, from both sides of the political isle. I don't think this attitude has a positive effect on the psychological wellbeing of the female half of the population, but a formal study would be required to ascertain any measurable effects.
As a scientist, I volunteer to look at thousands of breasts of varying sizes and record the effects my observations create. I'll even touch them and stuff.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on February 13, 2021, 08:12:59 PM
I think our society has a problem with simultaneously demonizing/sexualizing breasts based on size, from both sides of the political isle. I don't think this attitude has a positive effect on the psychological wellbeing of the female half of the population, but a formal study would be required to ascertain any measurable effects.
Not sure if serious. :o
Breasts are a secondary sexual characteristic in Western and some other cultures. Men like breasts. Nipples are an erogenous zone. You basically can't not sexualise breasts.
Demonising large breasts is of course a bad thing, and pretty fucked up.
Quote from: S'mon on February 14, 2021, 02:05:06 AM
Demonising large breasts is of course a bad thing, and pretty fucked up.
It's the same thing as fat ugly chicks criticizing dudes for being attracted to "conventionally attractive" women, whatever the hell that even means. Sorry, get mad at God or something, that's just a biological reaction.
Quote from: Brad on February 14, 2021, 09:03:20 AM
Quote from: S'mon on February 14, 2021, 02:05:06 AM
Demonising large breasts is of course a bad thing, and pretty fucked up.
It's the same thing as fat ugly chicks criticizing dudes for being attracted to "conventionally attractive" women, whatever the hell that even means. Sorry, get mad at God or something, that's just a biological reaction.
They are criticizing dudes for being attracted to "conventionally attractive" women
instead of being attracted to the fat ugly chicks themselves. Narcissism at its purest.
Quote from: Brad on February 14, 2021, 09:03:20 AM
It's the same thing as fat ugly chicks criticizing dudes for being attracted to "conventionally attractive" women, whatever the hell that even means. Sorry, get mad at God or something, that's just a biological reaction.
Basically be attracted to me as it's not my fault I'm too lazy and unwilling to do any exercise whatsoever to get men to pay attention to me. It's the same bullshit with trans women suddenly realizing most men are not interested in dating trans women and if your not interested in them then it's transphobia.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on February 13, 2021, 08:12:59 PM
I think our society has a problem with simultaneously demonizing/sexualizing breasts based on size, from both sides of the political isle. I don't think this attitude has a positive effect on the psychological wellbeing of the female half of the population, but a formal study would be required to ascertain any measurable effects.
Quote from: S'mon on February 14, 2021, 02:05:06 AM
Not sure if serious. :o
Breasts are a secondary sexual characteristic in Western and some other cultures. Men like breasts. Nipples are an erogenous zone. You basically can't not sexualise breasts.
Demonising large breasts is of course a bad thing, and pretty fucked up.
Quote from: Brad on February 14, 2021, 09:03:20 AM
It's the same thing as fat ugly chicks criticizing dudes for being attracted to "conventionally attractive" women, whatever the hell that even means. Sorry, get mad at God or something, that's just a biological reaction.
Breasts are always sexualized to some degree, but standards of beauty do differ. Some features like symmetry and clear skin are always favored, but things like preferred breast size can differ between different cultures and historical period. An ideal woman in the Renaissance would likely be considered a fat chick today. A topless supermodel with large breasts would command a lot of attention in our culture, but might not get a second glance in some indigenous cultures.
Still, regardless of whether it is biological or cultural, individual people can't fully control what they find attractive.
To BoxCrayonTales' point - there has been a lot of psychological studies on standards of beauty including breast size, but it's a politically charged topic, and I feel like a lot of the studies are even less reliable than usual for psychology. I think not demonizing is generally a good rule - and this applies just as much to unconventional standards as to conventional standards.
Quote from: jhkim on February 14, 2021, 12:15:16 PMBreasts are always sexualized to some degree, but standards of beauty do differ. Some features like symmetry and clear skin are always favored, but things like preferred breast size can differ between different cultures and historical period. An ideal woman in the Renaissance would likely be considered a fat chick today. A topless supermodel with large breasts would command a lot of attention in our culture, but might not get a second glance in some indigenous cultures.
None of this is true at all, but thanks for parroting the leftist bullshit!
EDIT: Like seriously, do you actually post anything that isn't a leftist talking point? All that Rubens nonsense has been proven to be demonstrably false, but it makes fat girls feel better about themselves so the lie persists. There is no culture on Earth that would ignore a topless supermodel, indigenous or not. They might not be as alarmed at the lack of clothing, but they'd certainly be interested in the overall physical attractiveness. I don't even know why I'm bothering to type out this edit because you're just gonna ignore how stupid you sound and post more rhetoric you heard in college or something.
Quote from: Brad on February 14, 2021, 12:32:45 PM
None of this is true at all, but thanks for parroting the leftist bullshit!
Well there is some cultural variation - and certainly in cultures where women routinely go topless, breasts are not a major sexual attractor - but there are also some consistencies, such as the 7-10 waist-hip ratio being considered the most attractive. Some cultures think 28-40 is best, some 35-50, some fashionistas may like 21-30... but none find a belly bigger than hips attractive.
Quote from: Omega on February 13, 2021, 09:17:51 AM
As related before. Back in the 90s iteration of this stupid I was at ground zero when the moral guardians stepped up their campaign from bitching and trying to "cancel" people to actively sabotaging a major art and indie comic con. They got every comic artist they disapproved of censored at their tables and disapproved art removed from the gallery. Cosplayers were restricted or in a few cases outright denied. They even had armed security in the gaming room watching us.
Next year they had completely taken over the con and "fixed" it. A year later it was gone. A con that had been around over a decade. As of a year or so ago the new iteration of this stupid was at it again.
That would be awful. Just awful. We have so few cons here in Pundit's old homeland that the ones we do have have to struggle to begin with. I couldn't imagine putting your heart and soul into supporting one year after year just to watch the sjw mob destroy it in two years.
Quote from: sureshot on February 14, 2021, 10:54:01 AM
Quote from: Brad on February 14, 2021, 09:03:20 AM
It's the same thing as fat ugly chicks criticizing dudes for being attracted to "conventionally attractive" women, whatever the hell that even means. Sorry, get mad at God or something, that's just a biological reaction.
Basically be attracted to me as it's not my fault I'm too lazy and unwilling to do any exercise whatsoever to get men to pay attention to me. It's the same bullshit with trans women suddenly realizing most men are not interested in dating trans women and if your not interested in them then it's transphobia.
They seem to forget that phobia means fear. I'm not homophobic at all, as many of my guy friends and coworkers can attest, but that doesn't make me want to have sex with them simply because I'm not afraid of them. I'm also not afraid of trans people but in the crazy trans logic not wanting to have sex with them, against my will I might add, means I am afraid of them and therefore hate them.
It seems like they're saying it's ok to demand sex from unwilling partners and refusal means you're a bigot and need to be cancelled and have your life ruined... for refusing involuntary sex...
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 14, 2021, 04:23:53 PM
They seem to forget that phobia means fear. I'm not homophobic at all, as many of my guy friends and coworkers can attest, but that doesn't make me want to have sex with them simply because I'm not afraid of them. I'm also not afraid of trans people but in the crazy trans logic not wanting to have sex with them, against my will I might add, means I am afraid of them and therefore hate them.
Agreed and seconded.
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 14, 2021, 04:23:53 PM
It seems like they're saying it's ok to demand sex from unwilling partners and refusal means you're a bigot and need to be cancelled and have your life ruined... for refusing involuntary sex...
They are pure hypocrites because they are not allowed to be unwilling victims yet their partners can. Double standard and all.
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 14, 2021, 04:15:00 PMThat would be awful. Just awful. We have so few cons here in Pundit's old homeland that the ones we do have have to struggle to begin with. I couldn't imagine putting your heart and soul into supporting one year after year just to watch the sjw mob destroy it in two years.
The 90s saw the resurgence of this stupid as "political correctness" and a new brigade of moral guardians pushing for ever more stringent censoring.
I saw it at other cons both gaming and omni-cons I used to attend like MiniCon way back. Just not successfully like that. I'd like to think it was a lone example in the wider array of cons back then. Whereass pre 2020 we were seeing cons getting ever more censored in much the same manner as way back.
Quote from: S'mon on February 14, 2021, 02:25:07 PM
Well there is some cultural variation - and certainly in cultures where women routinely go topless, breasts are not a major sexual attractor - but there are also some consistencies, such as the 7-10 waist-hip ratio being considered the most attractive. Some cultures think 28-40 is best, some 35-50, some fashionistas may like 21-30... but none find a belly bigger than hips attractive.
"Cultural variation" is like saying some hoodrats are okay with tattoos and the intelligentsia don't care for them. That all goes out the window when a naked Halle Berry with a tramp stamp is beckoning you to "hang out". Oh you don't like tats, sure, does it really matter in this case?
EDIT: Just to placate Pundit, in gaming terms someone with an 18 CHA (COM if we're using that stat) is beyond reproach. Even with a hefty negative reaction penalty, they're still going to illicit a very positive reaction.
Quote from: "S'mon"....and certainly in cultures where women routinely go topless, breasts are not a major sexual attractor....
That is like saying that legs are not a major attractor in this culture because women are habitually naked from the upper thighs down. Quite the contrary, females in this culture use their legs for sexual display, which is an instinctive impulse shared with other primates.
Breasts evolved in human females most likely to be attractive to males, because in most primitive societies females have to compete with each other for husbands beginning at puberty. Humans and bonobos are the only animals I can think of that develop breasts at puberty instead of when they are pregnant. Large breasts in young females is indicative of fertility. Males are designed by evolution to be able to discern female health and fertility.
Quote from: "Samsquantch"They seem to forget that phobia means fear....
"phobia" also means to be repulsed by something, such as hydrophobicity in chemistry.
Quote from: Brad on February 14, 2021, 10:42:04 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 14, 2021, 02:25:07 PM
Well there is some cultural variation - and certainly in cultures where women routinely go topless, breasts are not a major sexual attractor - but there are also some consistencies, such as the 7-10 waist-hip ratio being considered the most attractive. Some cultures think 28-40 is best, some 35-50, some fashionistas may like 21-30... but none find a belly bigger than hips attractive.
"Cultural variation" is like saying some hoodrats are okay with tattoos and the intelligentsia don't care for them. That all goes out the window when a naked Halle Berry with a tramp stamp is beckoning you to "hang out". Oh you don't like tats, sure, does it really matter in this case?
EDIT: Just to placate Pundit, in gaming terms someone with an 18 CHA (COM if we're using that stat) is beyond reproach. Even with a hefty negative reaction penalty, they're still going to illicit a very positive reaction.
S'mon - I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me at all. I agree that there is some cultural variation along with some consistencies. I mentioned clear skin and symmetry of features for this - you cited waist-to-hip ratio. I hadn't read previously about waist-to-hip ratio, but yes, it looks like between 0.6 and 0.8 is preferred from what I read. (ref) (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1090513809000889) As far as I know, it is similar with breasts. I suspect no culture prefers complete absence of breasts -- but there are varying ideas on what is too small and what is too big. Even within our own culture, there is a lot of variation in breast size of the most popular models and celebrities. From back in the days of flappers in the 1920s through to the present, many small-chested women have been seen as highly attractive.
Regarding a Comeliness stat -- I think there is far more agreement about who has a 9 or lower Comeliness cross-culturally, but little agreement about who is an 18. Asymmetry, blotchy skin, and apparently wrong waist-to-hip ratio are always turn-offs. But who has an 18 versus a 14 is the subject of much more disagreement especially between varying cultures. And reaction to nudity is very culturally dependent. In some cultures, seeing a woman topless or even fully nude is no big deal, since it happens all the time. In some cultures, women are almost always completely covered from head to toe, and showing any skin is erotic.
Quote from: Cloyer Bulse on February 15, 2021, 07:32:57 AM
Quote from: "Samsquantch"They seem to forget that phobia means fear....
"phobia" also means to be repulsed by something, such as hydrophobicity in chemistry.
Social justice re-defines terms for their own useage. They don't mean fear or repulsion. They mean some social hegemony nonsense.
Relevance: SJW terminology making it's way into RPG texts.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 15, 2021, 03:18:04 PM
Quote from: Cloyer Bulse on February 15, 2021, 07:32:57 AM
Quote from: "Samsquantch"They seem to forget that phobia means fear....
"phobia" also means to be repulsed by something, such as hydrophobicity in chemistry.
Social justice re-defines terms for their own useage. They don't mean fear or repulsion. They mean some social hegemony nonsense.
Relevance: SJW terminology making it's way into RPG texts.
It's almost like they read "1984" and decided it was utopian rather than dystopian.
Quote from: Mishihari on February 15, 2021, 10:47:47 PM
It's almost like they read "1984" and decided it was utopian rather than dystopian.
Yes, they read it as a how-to manual, not dystopian fiction.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 15, 2021, 03:18:04 PM
Quote from: Cloyer Bulse on February 15, 2021, 07:32:57 AM
Quote from: "Samsquantch"They seem to forget that phobia means fear....
"phobia" also means to be repulsed by something, such as hydrophobicity in chemistry.
Social justice re-defines terms for their own useage. They don't mean fear or repulsion. They mean some social hegemony nonsense.
Relevance: SJW terminology making it's way into RPG texts.
I agree, that does seem to be the context in which they use it.
When a neckbeard who normally sexes socks to the extent that a pile of crusty socks growing mushrooms resides in the corner of his room like a splooge golem waiting on the final casting to animate, a muppet with bewbs, which is to say essentially a felt sock with bewbs, is probably maddeningly lewd to the point where they type outrage with one hand while adding to the golem with the other.
Quote from: Slipshot762 on February 16, 2021, 05:55:57 AM
When a neckbeard who normally sexes socks to the extent that a pile of crusty socks growing mushrooms resides in the corner of his room like a splooge golem waiting on the final casting to animate, a muppet with bewbs, which is to say essentially a felt sock with bewbs, is probably maddeningly lewd to the point where they type outrage with one hand while adding to the golem with the other.
That is both disgusting and hilarious.
Quote from: Cloyer Bulse on February 15, 2021, 07:32:57 AM
Quote from: "S'mon"....and certainly in cultures where women routinely go topless, breasts are not a major sexual attractor....
That is like saying that legs are not a major attractor in this culture because women are habitually naked from the upper thighs down. Quite the contrary, females in this culture use their legs for sexual display, which is an instinctive impulse shared with other primates.
Breasts evolved in human females most likely to be attractive to males, because in most primitive societies females have to compete with each other for husbands beginning at puberty. Humans and bonobos are the only animals I can think of that develop breasts at puberty instead of when they are pregnant. Large breasts in young females is indicative of fertility. Males are designed by evolution to be able to discern female health and fertility.
Quote from: "Samsquantch"They seem to forget that phobia means fear....
"phobia" also means to be repulsed by something, such as hydrophobicity in chemistry.
Women aren't chopping off their legs in droves to avoid being sexualized. They are chopping off their perfectly healthy breasts, though.
Fair enough, you got me!
Quote from: Cloyer Bulse on February 15, 2021, 07:32:57 AM
Quote from: "S'mon"....and certainly in cultures where women routinely go topless, breasts are not a major sexual attractor....
That is like saying that legs are not a major attractor in this culture because women are habitually naked from the upper thighs down. Quite the contrary, females in this culture use their legs for sexual display, which is an instinctive impulse shared with other primates.
Breasts evolved in human females most likely to be attractive to males, because in most primitive societies females have to compete with each other for husbands beginning at puberty. Humans and bonobos are the only animals I can think of that develop breasts at puberty instead of when they are pregnant. Large breasts in young females is indicative of fertility. Males are designed by evolution to be able to discern female health and fertility.
Quote from: "Samsquantch"They seem to forget that phobia means fear....
"phobia" also means to be repulsed by something, such as hydrophobicity in chemistry.
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2021, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Brad on February 14, 2021, 10:42:04 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 14, 2021, 02:25:07 PM
Well there is some cultural variation - and certainly in cultures where women routinely go topless, breasts are not a major sexual attractor - but there are also some consistencies, such as the 7-10 waist-hip ratio being considered the most attractive. Some cultures think 28-40 is best, some 35-50, some fashionistas may like 21-30... but none find a belly bigger than hips attractive.
"Cultural variation" is like saying some hoodrats are okay with tattoos and the intelligentsia don't care for them. That all goes out the window when a naked Halle Berry with a tramp stamp is beckoning you to "hang out". Oh you don't like tats, sure, does it really matter in this case?
EDIT: Just to placate Pundit, in gaming terms someone with an 18 CHA (COM if we're using that stat) is beyond reproach. Even with a hefty negative reaction penalty, they're still going to illicit a very positive reaction.
S'mon - I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me at all.
I was replying to Brad. AFACIR I was slightly disagreeing with his 'no variation' view.
I think you're right that culturally and specifically, people disagree about fine variations of attractiveness at the top end, but attractive vs not attractive is fairly universal.
QuoteWomen aren't chopping off their legs in droves to avoid being sexualized. They are chopping off their perfectly healthy breasts, though.
Really? I mean I somehow doubt there's more women chopping breasts, than enlarging it - and I doubt most of choppers do it to avoid being sexuallised - rather to avoide spine problems or cancer.
Quote from: S'mon on February 16, 2021, 04:58:09 PM
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2021, 01:32:03 PM
S'mon - I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me at all.
I was replying to Brad. AFACIR I was slightly disagreeing with his 'no variation' view.
I think you're right that culturally and specifically, people disagree about fine variations of attractiveness at the top end, but attractive vs not attractive is fairly universal.
Thanks. Yes, so supermodel vs cute girl next door is largely culturally dependent (COM 13 vs 18), but ugly vs attractive is largely biological (COM 7 vs 13).
Quote from: Slipshot762 on February 16, 2021, 05:55:57 AM
When a neckbeard who normally sexes socks to the extent that a pile of crusty socks growing mushrooms resides in the corner of his room like a splooge golem waiting on the final casting to animate, a muppet with bewbs, which is to say essentially a felt sock with bewbs, is probably maddeningly lewd to the point where they type outrage with one hand while adding to the golem with the other.
Dude.
Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on February 16, 2021, 07:46:18 PM
QuoteWomen aren't chopping off their legs in droves to avoid being sexualized. They are chopping off their perfectly healthy breasts, though.
Really? I mean I somehow doubt there's more women chopping breasts, than enlarging it - and I doubt most of choppers do it to avoid being sexuallised - rather to avoide spine problems or cancer.
I recommend reading Abigail Shrier and Debra Soh for further information.
QuoteI recommend reading Abigail Shrier and Debra Soh for further information.
Well while I really appreciate the first article after googling is conemnation of "transgender children" nevertheless I have no time to dwell through gender-sociological sites now - so if you could just pinpoint me to some specific numeric data I'd be glad. If you cannot, don't worry, it's not that important - just wanted to have some comparison
Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on February 18, 2021, 10:21:49 AM
QuoteI recommend reading Abigail Shrier and Debra Soh for further information.
Well while I really appreciate the first article after googling is conemnation of "transgender children" nevertheless I have no time to dwell through gender-sociological sites now - so if you could just pinpoint me to some specific numeric data I'd be glad. If you cannot, don't worry, it's not that important - just wanted to have some comparison
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324768316_Sex_Ratio_in_Children_and_Adolescents_Referred_to_the_Gender_Identity_Development_Service_in_the_UK_2009-2016
Wait but this is IIUC more about general dysphoria - not I will make my boobs smaller to not be attractive supposed phenomena.
Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on February 18, 2021, 05:30:08 PM
Wait but this is IIUC more about general dysphoria - not I will make my boobs smaller to not be attractive supposed phenomena.
My point is that the excessive demonization/sexualization of women's bodies by the media compared to men's may be a key risk factor in why so many women and girls are disproportionately developing dysphoria and seeking irreversible surgery in the first place.
Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on February 18, 2021, 05:30:08 PM
Wait but this is IIUC more about general dysphoria - not I will make my boobs smaller to not be attractive supposed phenomena.
Considering all the varieties of insane out there. Yes there are people out there wanting their knockers reduced to not be attractive, or as attractive. Rather than for health or just practicality issues.
Friend of mine has an ongoing hatred of 3rd wave feminists as among the myriad insane things theyve done, she was told she should get her boobs reduced "to spite men."
Never underestimate how insane people will act. We actually have women preaching that you are too attractive and should have that "cured".
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on February 18, 2021, 07:07:00 PM
Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on February 18, 2021, 05:30:08 PM
Wait but this is IIUC more about general dysphoria - not I will make my boobs smaller to not be attractive supposed phenomena.
My point is that the excessive demonization/sexualization of women's bodies by the media compared to men's may be a key risk factor in why so many women and girls are disproportionately developing dysphoria and seeking irreversible surgery in the first place.
It's hardly new, this is just the new flavor of the same issue that led to eating disorders being a big thing among girls. Only now instead of an insecure teenager harming themselves with an eating disorder, they're harming themselves with medical body modifications. Of course, now there's an industry profiting off of it, so where eating disorders were rightfully being discouraged as harmful, getting your body hacked up and permanently damaged with hormones is stunning and brave.
And boys aren't immune to it either, they just tend to harm themselves through attempts to match an unrealistically Hollywood-chiseled standard of male attractiveness, going to steroids and other damaging methods of excessive exercise that can lead to serious injury when there's no professional trainer keeping an eye on things.
Quote from: Valatar on February 19, 2021, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on February 18, 2021, 07:07:00 PM
Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on February 18, 2021, 05:30:08 PM
Wait but this is IIUC more about general dysphoria - not I will make my boobs smaller to not be attractive supposed phenomena.
My point is that the excessive demonization/sexualization of women's bodies by the media compared to men's may be a key risk factor in why so many women and girls are disproportionately developing dysphoria and seeking irreversible surgery in the first place.
It's hardly new, this is just the new flavor of the same issue that led to eating disorders being a big thing among girls. Only now instead of an insecure teenager harming themselves with an eating disorder, they're harming themselves with medical body modifications. Of course, now there's an industry profiting off of it, so where eating disorders were rightfully being discouraged as harmful, getting your body hacked up and permanently damaged with hormones is stunning and brave.
And boys aren't immune to it either, they just tend to harm themselves through attempts to match an unrealistically Hollywood-chiseled standard of male attractiveness, going to steroids and other damaging methods of excessive exercise that can lead to serious injury when there's no professional trainer keeping an eye on things.
I find it down right evil that physicians are skipping the mental illness aspect of treatment for body dysmorphia and going straight to the irreversible step of body mutilation via surgery. Anyone that speaks out against this gets pilloried in the public square and stripped of credentials in case of medical professionals. It's sheer insanity.
This topic is going very far off-track into political discussion that is not directly connected to gaming. Keep it on topic. Anyone posting an off-topic political post will be banned.
I think at the end of the day it shows off yet again just how fickle these sociopaths are.
Minorities are soooooo special and should be allowed to play anything!
That is until they play something the cult disapproves of and then they are condemned and demands begin for them to be run out of town.
SJWs will make RPGs "safe" for those poor oppreseded peoples.
As far as I can tell it was actually the opposite, she was condemned and demands began for her to be run out of town, then it was discovered that the player was a woman of color and therefore allowed to play anything.
Quote from: Valatar on February 22, 2021, 02:35:12 PM
As far as I can tell it was actually the opposite, she was condemned and demands began for her to be run out of town, then it was discovered that the player was a woman of color and therefore allowed to play anything.
The original assumption was that the player was a straight white male, thus the SJW shriek-and-swarm. *Then* it was discovered the the player is a woman of color, at which point hilarity ensued.
Quote from: RandyB on February 22, 2021, 02:51:00 PM
The original assumption was that the player was a straight white male, thus the SJW shriek-and-swarm. *Then* it was discovered the the player is a woman of color, at which point hilarity ensued.
Not only did hilarity ensue they refused to apologize for their mistake and claimed they were blameless because the puppet had triggered some kind of sexual dimorphism or something similar.
Quote from: sureshot on February 23, 2021, 08:24:32 AM
Quote from: RandyB on February 22, 2021, 02:51:00 PM
The original assumption was that the player was a straight white male, thus the SJW shriek-and-swarm. *Then* it was discovered the the player is a woman of color, at which point hilarity ensued.
Not only did hilarity ensue they refused to apologize for their mistake and claimed they were blameless because the puppet had triggered some kind of sexual dimorphism or something similar.
Yes. That's a major part of the hilarity. They had to scramble to justify their reaction, and that's the best they could come up with.
If you're unwilling to admit when you're wrong, that pretty much implies you're never right.
Quote from: sureshot on February 23, 2021, 08:24:32 AM
Quote from: RandyB on February 22, 2021, 02:51:00 PM
The original assumption was that the player was a straight white male, thus the SJW shriek-and-swarm. *Then* it was discovered the the player is a woman of color, at which point hilarity ensued.
Not only did hilarity ensue they refused to apologize for their mistake and claimed they were blameless because the puppet had triggered some kind of sexual dimorphism or something similar.
That was the part that really got me... I expected the back pedalling when they found out the player was a black woman since it always seems to happen that way, but saying a puppet of a make believe race in a fantasy world triggered your body dysmorphia was just really out there and reaching.
Still, the thought that people actually believe that they somehow have the authority to determine who can and cannot play a specific imaginary character in an imaginary game of imaginary creatures performing imaginary deeds of heroism or villainy is ludicrous. Especially when they also demand other people believe in and support their own fantasies about the world they actually live in.
How these people actually got into positions of power and influence in the RPG world is beyond me. It has never been my experience in 41 years of gaming where anyone was excluded from participation for their sex, race, religion, sexual orientation, or anything else with any of the hundreds of people I know. The only thing that has excluded people in all of these groups was their own behaviour and that includes flaking out and missing games without notice and all the way up to starting fights at the table or being a creep. In other words, if you can't act like a decent human being you were not invited back.
I propose that we change the term for SJWs in the gaming industry to "SJC," for "social justice crusader," 1) because it's thematic, 2) because it accurately ascribes to them the characteristics they ascribe to the real-world historic crusades, and 3) because it will really irritate them.
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 23, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
How these people actually got into positions of power and influence in the RPG world is beyond me.
Well, they're not CEOs, or writers of anything but vanity project RPGs. So their influence is no more than is given them by others. The middle class have always been very risk-averse, but this has been magnified by online stuff - the nightmare world of Sandra Bullock's
The Net has been brought about - and the nightmare there wasn't that she could be deprived of her identity, but that she could live her entire life without in-person contact, at home with her keyboard and mouse.
A life without in-person contact will eventually make any person insane. This insanity may be expressed in anxiety and depression, which the person may channel into The Cause - whatever they happen to latch on to. And so you get a keyboard warrior, a lonely person with too much time on their hands - time enough to harass people's twitter feeds, and the like. And the people owning companies and their staff actually doing productive things see this wave of lonely losers posting on their social media and think "Shit, that's a majority! We better listen to them!"
And of course, the furry transgender nerdfury crowd weeping about "microaggressions" and the like are actually a tiny minority, they're just a very noisy one - online only. But they get listened to by the timid middle class, who are terrified of everything.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on February 23, 2021, 06:42:21 PM
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 23, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
How these people actually got into positions of power and influence in the RPG world is beyond me.
Well, they're not CEOs, or writers of anything but vanity project RPGs. So their influence is no more than is given them by others.
Actually SJWs are very in the big biz. Just usually not, yet, in the big chair. But more often in some influential side position. Marketing it thoroughly infested and pushed this garbage like it was a religion for example. But thats how marketing treats every trendy new thing. They are the writers, the producers, the editors. We are seeing it more and more even in board gaming.
"You cant have George Washington in your historical game! He was wacist!"
"Making a game about exploring Africa is promoting GENOCIDE!"
I kid you not.
Quote from: sureshot on February 23, 2021, 08:24:32 AM
Quote from: RandyB on February 22, 2021, 02:51:00 PM
The original assumption was that the player was a straight white male, thus the SJW shriek-and-swarm. *Then* it was discovered the the player is a woman of color, at which point hilarity ensued.
Not only did hilarity ensue they refused to apologize for their mistake and claimed they were blameless because the puppet had triggered some kind of sexual dimorphism or something similar.
They never apologise.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on February 23, 2021, 06:42:21 PM
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 23, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
How these people actually got into positions of power and influence in the RPG world is beyond me.
Well, they're not CEOs, or writers of anything but vanity project RPGs. So their influence is no more than is given them by others. The middle class have always been very risk-averse, but this has been magnified by online stuff - the nightmare world of Sandra Bullock's The Net has been brought about - and the nightmare there wasn't that she could be deprived of her identity, but that she could live her entire life without in-person contact, at home with her keyboard and mouse.
A life without in-person contact will eventually make any person insane. This insanity may be expressed in anxiety and depression, which the person may channel into The Cause - whatever they happen to latch on to. And so you get a keyboard warrior, a lonely person with too much time on their hands - time enough to harass people's twitter feeds, and the like. And the people owning companies and their staff actually doing productive things see this wave of lonely losers posting on their social media and think "Shit, that's a majority! We better listen to them!"
And of course, the furry transgender nerdfury crowd weeping about "microaggressions" and the like are actually a tiny minority, they're just a very noisy one - online only. But they get listened to by the timid middle class, who are terrified of everything.
I think that sums that up quite well.
Quote from: Omega on February 23, 2021, 08:37:00 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on February 23, 2021, 06:42:21 PM
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 23, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
How these people actually got into positions of power and influence in the RPG world is beyond me.
Well, they're not CEOs, or writers of anything but vanity project RPGs. So their influence is no more than is given them by others.
Actually SJWs are very in the big biz. Just usually not, yet, in the big chair. But more often in some influential side position. Marketing it thoroughly infested and pushed this garbage like it was a religion for example. But thats how marketing treats every trendy new thing. They are the writers, the producers, the editors. We are seeing it more and more even in board gaming.
"You cant have George Washington in your historical game! He was wacist!"
"Making a game about exploring Africa is promoting GENOCIDE!"
I kid you not.
Also very good points.
Quote from: TJS on February 24, 2021, 01:23:28 AM
Quote from: sureshot on February 23, 2021, 08:24:32 AM
Quote from: RandyB on February 22, 2021, 02:51:00 PM
The original assumption was that the player was a straight white male, thus the SJW shriek-and-swarm. *Then* it was discovered the the player is a woman of color, at which point hilarity ensued.
Not only did hilarity ensue they refused to apologize for their mistake and claimed they were blameless because the puppet had triggered some kind of sexual dimorphism or something similar.
They never apologise.
People that never apologize show that they do not care for anyone's feelings but their own. in the case of woke SJWs this was brilliantly demonstrated all summer long by them calling black, brown, asian, and any non white people the most vile and racist names simply because those people chose to think differently than the SJWs and exercise their rights to chose their own political preference. This abhorrent act of ultimate evil meant that they were no longer immune from being attacked and had become
the other and the SJWs could take off their masks and show the real hatred and racism in their hearts.
They show this in the gaming world as well but to a much lesser degree with very few instances (that I have seen) of open racism against minorities, and when the offender turns out to be a minority they quickly back pedal just like in the case of the thread topic. I truly cannot comprehend the hypocrisy of these people and the utter lack of self awareness they have. I am genuinely concerned for the future of gaming and society as whole. My hope is that if enough people stop supporting the companies that embrace the wokeness that the loss of income will prompt a return to normalcy and this will just become a bad memory like when TSR changed demons and devils to placate the Satanic Panic crowd.
Quote from: TJS on February 24, 2021, 01:23:28 AM
Quote from: sureshot on February 23, 2021, 08:24:32 AM
Quote from: RandyB on February 22, 2021, 02:51:00 PM
The original assumption was that the player was a straight white male, thus the SJW shriek-and-swarm. *Then* it was discovered the the player is a woman of color, at which point hilarity ensued.
Not only did hilarity ensue they refused to apologize for their mistake and claimed they were blameless because the puppet had triggered some kind of sexual dimorphism or something similar.
They never apologise.
Nope. Same thing happened over in the comic biz with Mark Waid calling Just some Guy a white supremacist. Then deleting his comments when it was pointed out that this person he is attacking is black. Not like that has stopped Waid before from cancelling minorities in the biz who get in the way of his agenda.
Quote from: TJS on February 24, 2021, 01:23:28 AM
Quote from: sureshot on February 23, 2021, 08:24:32 AM
Quote from: RandyB on February 22, 2021, 02:51:00 PM
The original assumption was that the player was a straight white male, thus the SJW shriek-and-swarm. *Then* it was discovered the the player is a woman of color, at which point hilarity ensued.
Not only did hilarity ensue they refused to apologize for their mistake and claimed they were blameless because the puppet had triggered some kind of sexual dimorphism or something similar.
They never apologise.
That's why they win. We'd do well to learn that lesson. You only apologize when you are truly sorry, and when the person you are apologizing to is willing to forgive. SJWs never forgive. They just use your apology as a further weapon against you. The best response to the SJWs in gaming is to state the truth and never apologize for it.
It seems that anyone that does apologize is quickly marked for further concessions. They push for more and more. Just recently the banjo player from Mumford and Sons complimented Andy Ngo on his new book about antifa. It was a benign tweet to be honest, just saying he was brave for writing it and it was a good book. He was forced to retract that tweet and acknowledge his "blindspots", whatever that is newspeak for... And then he further had to take time away from the band for his transgressions.
To me this no different than WotC making the early concessions to the woke mob and now look at them...
Pundit's recent video was nuts with all the drama these people manufacture amongst themselves.
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on February 04, 2021, 03:39:56 PM
Quote from: Samsquantch on February 04, 2021, 02:47:27 PMThey were saying a puppet's fabric boobs made their body dysmorphia worse and therefore shouldn't be allowed.
In fairness, the thought of disproportionately sized male genitalia also squicks me out to the point I'd rather not have any examples thereof rubbed (figuratively) in my face by the media, either. My mental health isn't dependent on the issue, thankfully, but if it were, I wouldn't feel out of line asking for a media environment I could count on being safe from it.
Insisting that all media environments be thus sanitized by law is a considerably more questionable position. If you can't take the heat, I won't make you stay in my kitchen; I just ask you don't tear my kitchen down to keep anyone from ever wandering in there again.
Or you could do the mature thing and change the channel.
Quote from: Brad on February 13, 2021, 10:02:41 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on February 13, 2021, 08:12:59 PM
I think our society has a problem with simultaneously demonizing/sexualizing breasts based on size, from both sides of the political isle. I don't think this attitude has a positive effect on the psychological wellbeing of the female half of the population, but a formal study would be required to ascertain any measurable effects.
As a scientist, I volunteer to look at thousands of breasts of varying sizes and record the effects my observations create. I'll even touch them and stuff.
LOL
So let me guess. After the usual spate of outrage. They got bored and moved on to the next victim right?
Quote from: RandyB on February 22, 2021, 02:51:00 PM
The original assumption was that the player was a straight white male, thus the SJW shriek-and-swarm. *Then* it was discovered the the player is a woman of color, at which point hilarity ensued.
#Oppsie.
Quote from: sureshot on February 23, 2021, 08:24:32 AM
Not only did hilarity ensue they refused to apologize for their mistake and claimed they were blameless because the puppet had triggered some kind of sexual dimorphism or something similar.
I try to be as considerate as possible, but demanding a show be cancelled because puppet breasts trigger your sexual dimorphism is just a bridge too far.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on February 23, 2021, 06:42:21 PM
A life without in-person contact will eventually make any person insane.
At least the ones who depend on others to form their identity.
The self-actualized tend to fair a lot better.
Quote from: Thornhammer on February 07, 2021, 05:21:30 PM
I think Dave Chappelle said it best: "I support anyone's right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?"
Still keeping it real I see.