Quote from: Skywalker;785100Birthright is sort of Game of Thrones D&D.

Nerath was a essentially "not a setting" but hints of setting that existing in the 4e material. I liked it as it reminded me of early Greyhawk, which I learned through experiencing the world through playing my PC rather than a setting book. There is something remarkably organic about that approach - to discover the world and fill in blanks as you go.

I also liked Al-Qadim, which was a very well written Arabian Fantasy setting.

Birthright sounds very interesting. That kind of fantasy is in my wheelhouse.
Is Nerath's vibe different from Forgotten Realms? Is it more grittier like Greyhawk?

Quote from: Omega;785120Entire post

Thanks. I find Birthright, Planescape, Eberron, Dark Sun and Ravenloft interesting. So I got more digging to do. I think I have a setting addiction.

D&D was created as a game of fantasy, not a depiction of a particular literary world (even the Commonwealth in Silverlock, which is ecumenical as worlds of novels go).

The Underworld or dungeon in the original presentation could feature anything imaginable, including transportation to very different subworlds in the game's potentially endless multiverse.

Arbitrarily excluding some possibilities is the judge's prerogative, but it did not define the D&D brand. That was at first a claim to distinction among rivals for runner-up status: RuneQuest, Warhammer, Talislanta, etc..

Nor was there at first a consensus on a particular mix of Tolkien, Howard and Moorcock elements as "standard" fantasy. That grew up as game products and novels became increasingly incestuous, spurred by the tremendous commercial success of the Dragonlance line. Perhaps the most latterly definitive of D&D has been the Forgotten Realms series.

Even among the "official" worlds, though, there are such diverse settings as Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Known World/Mystara (with its Hollow World extension), Spelljammer and Planescape. Empire of the Petal Throne was TSR's first spinoff from D&D, Metamorphosis Alpha a second.

Another idea to use is set a city somewhere, paint the world in very broad strokes, and then have the players get involved to define and fill in the details over time.

Might not be for everyone, but some groups might find it engaging/appealing.

Tabletop Roleplaying was born in Dave Arneson's Blackmoor campaign.
Dave came down to Lake Geneva and ran it for Gary Gygax and crew.
Gary Gygax in turn creates Castle Greyhawk and develops the D&D rule throughout the campaign with input from Dave.

The 1974 rules of D&D is largely a reflection of what happened in Gygax's campaign with added materials on various things that Dave and Gary thought would be of interest. Like Naval combat, Aerial combat, etc, etc.

It just worked out that the combination of the shit Dave and Gary made up proved flexible enough to cover a lot of things people wanted to experience with fantasy. This was likely because Dave and Gary drew on a broad spectrum of culture rather just a narrow focus recreating something specifically. This can be seen in anecdotes about Blackmoor and Greyhawk where players experienced various side adventures and the dungeon were expanded to encompassed more things then just a maze with room filled with monsters and treasure. For example reaching the bottom of Greyhawk sent you to China. There was a Machine Level, a City of the Gods, a Bottled City, etc, etc.

That what I took away from reading various anecdotes, Playing at the World, and Hawk & Moor.

Guys from Blackmoor flew to Greyhawk aboard "tarns" a la A Tarnsman of Gor. The reference sheets in the boxed set included encounter tables for Barsoom. The original example of expanding character types was a Balrog.The cleric (created to oppose a vampire character) owes a bit to many sources, Hammer Studios movies being prominent. The monk came from the Destroyer novels and the Kung Fu TV show. The thief is a mashup of R.E. Howard's Zamorian tomb robbers, Grey Mouser, Cugel the Clever and Jack of Shadows. Ioun Stones and the general rationale for spell-casting came from the Dying Earth. The continual light spell evokes the Face in the Abyss, as well as various lost cities encountered by Conan. Farmer's World of Tiers series focused on adventures in puzzle/trap/monster laden "dungeon" worlds. A.E. Van Vogt,  L. Sprague de Camp, H.P. Lovecraft, and Michael Moorcock are also among the many sources of one thing or another.

Traveller likewise started as an eclectic smorgasbord of science-fiction references, not as the game of the Third Imperium.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;785203Is Nerath's vibe different from Forgotten Realms? Is it more grittier like Greyhawk?

Yeah, kind of, but not in the same way as GH.

As others have noted D&D largely shaped 'generic fantasy.' But if you're looking for stuff that is particular to D&D (or most strongly associated with it):

• Underground labyrinths as a common (if not default) adventure setting.


• Lots of traps and puzzles in said labyrinths.


• Pseudo-Christian clerics as common characters and non-player characters.


• The Underdark, a vast subterranean world filled with creepy monsters and races.


• Drow (see above).


• Slimes, oozes, and jellies as common monsters.


• A huge list of spells, some generic but many weirdly particular.


• Vast assortment of magic items, typically found in underground labyrinths.

Omega's post in particular gives a pretty good run-down of classic D&D settings but, being a Birthright fanboy, I take exception with just about everyone's description of BR.

Quote from: Skywalker;785100Birthright is sort of Game of Thrones D&D.

Quote from: Omega;785120Birthright: A sort of kingdom level setting with some wargame elements.  Mostly a Mid fantasy feel from what Ive read.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;785149Think Highlander meets Game of Thrones (with really nasty, xenophobic elves).

Yeah, it's exactly like Game of Thrones, except for the relative lack of smut. And for having dwarves, elves, clerics and other D&D tropes. And for kings having divine blood complete with minor spell-like abilities. And for archetypal monsters (The Gorgon, The Chimera, etc.) being mutated scions of the bloodlines of an evil god. And for the existence of a Shadow World ruled by faerie courts. And...

It's only similar to GoT/ASoIaF as far as it's got kings and castles and a focus on politics and rulership. Hardly BR-specific distinctions as far as D&D settings go; rulership gets mentioned (though admittedly not codified into the rules) as early as OD&D. Birthright's crucial difference is offering DMs with the opportunity of putting PCs on the throne right off the bat, at first level if desired.

Birthright more or less presume that PCs are "blooded scions", descended from ancient hero-kings who fought a mythic battle side-by-side with the gods. Blooded scions are the only ones who can take up positions of leadership (ruler, guildmaster, high priest, etc.) within the setting's uminspired but serviceable domain management and mass combat systems.

Bloodlines have a strength score, may grant minor spell-like powers and bonuses depending on which god you're descended from, and can be "stolen" when scions duel to the death. Scions of the evil god sometimes mutate into monsters called awnshegh, many of which have gone on to become the genitors of monster races (e.g. The Gorgon, The Minotaur, The Vampire).

If Birthright has a schtick, the way I see it, it's being Fairy Tale D&D with vague Arthurian overtones. "The King and the Land are one" is a big deal, with your Bloodline score directly impacting your ability to rule your realm.

Great setting, certainly felt different from the local poisons of choice (Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms) in my neck of the woods back in the day.

Totally forgot.

There is also Lankhmar, though never seen it. Based off the novels.

And 2nd ed D&D put out about a half dozen "historical" setting books.
Rome and Vikings comes to mind, and I believe there was a Age of Chivalry one as well.

Dragon Magazine upped the ante with even more setting ideas like one based in a prehistoric era, and another that was Aztec/Mayan themed.

Dragon/Polyhedron also opened up a few more. Deathnet was set in a computer VR and Mecha Crusade (think that was the name) was a giant mecha themed one. Probably lots more I never saw.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;785203Is Nerath's vibe different from Forgotten Realms? Is it more grittier like Greyhawk?

It's not FR. The blank spaces reminded me of early Greyhawk, but for obvious reasons it lacks the Gygaxian flourishes.

Quote from: Omega;785120Settings.

*SNIP*

Partially to nitpick and partially to clear up any confusion for the OP or others:

I think you're using the phrases "low fantasy" and "high fantasy" incorrectly. What you seem to be referring to is how common and powerful magic is in a given setting - that's "low MAGIC" or "high MAGIC" setting.

"High fantasy" and "low fantasy" (there's no "mid-fantasy") are a completely different concept relating to the style and conventions of a story (or RP setting). High fantasy is stuff like Lord of the Rings: epic conflict with the world hanging in the balance between the objectively existant forces of Good and Evil, thus capitalised, with Heroes and Villains. Low fantasy is stuff like Dying Earth or Ffahrd and the Grey Mouser: low-stake stories where the heroes' lives might be in the danger, but the world usually isn't; morality being all shades of grey without paragons of virtue or utter villains. This distinction has nothing to do with how common or rare magic is in the world.

Quote from: Premier;785499Partially to nitpick and partially to clear up any confusion for the OP or others:

I think you're using the phrases "low fantasy" and "high fantasy" incorrectly. What you seem to be referring to is how common and powerful magic is in a given setting - that's "low MAGIC" or "high MAGIC" setting.

"High fantasy" and "low fantasy" (there's no "mid-fantasy") are a completely different concept relating to the style and conventions of a story (or RP setting). High fantasy is stuff like Lord of the Rings: epic conflict with the world hanging in the balance between the objectively existant forces of Good and Evil, thus capitalised, with Heroes and Villains. Low fantasy is stuff like Dying Earth or Ffahrd and the Grey Mouser: low-stake stories where the heroes' lives might be in the danger, but the world usually isn't; morality being all shades of grey without paragons of virtue or utter villains. This distinction has nothing to do with how common or rare magic is in the world.

Is Sword and Sorcery a form of low fantasy? Oh I see. In gaming terms high and low fantasy tell you about the scope of the game. In other words how epic it is. HF is very epic and LF isn't.

Literature uses a different definition. HF has a lot of fantasy elements like magic and fantasy races. LF hasn't. So Conan is HF in literature and LF in gaming. Supernatural is the other way around. Thanks Wikipedia.

Quote from: Premier;785499"High fantasy" and "low fantasy" (there's no "mid-fantasy") are a completely different concept relating to the style and conventions of a story (or RP setting). High fantasy is stuff like Lord of the Rings: epic conflict with the world hanging in the balance between the objectively existant forces of Good and Evil, thus capitalised, with Heroes and Villains. Low fantasy is stuff like Dying Earth or Ffahrd and the Grey Mouser: low-stake stories where the heroes' lives might be in the danger, but the world usually isn't; morality being all shades of grey without paragons of virtue or utter villains. This distinction has nothing to do with how common or rare magic is in the world.

Exactly so. D&D went from a low-fantasy game to a high-fantasy game not because of ubiquitous magic or high-powered PCs, but because the default game mode (as presented by the publishers) went from the exploits of treasure-seeking tomb robbers to the world-saving sagas of heroes. Looting the tomb of Egoran the Red to find a fabled crown worth a fortune? Low fantasy. Heading the call of the high cleric of Pelor to save the kingdom from the ravages of the Necromancer King? High fantasy.

Quote from: Haffrung;785515Exactly so. D&D went from a low-fantasy game to a high-fantasy game not because of ubiquitous magic or high-powered PCs, but because the default game mode (as presented by the publishers) went from the exploits of treasure-seeking tomb robbers to the world-saving sagas of heroes. Looting the tomb of Egoran the Red to find a fabled crown worth a fortune? Low fantasy. Heading the call of the high cleric of Pelor to save the kingdom from the ravages of the Necromancer King? High fantasy.

Correct according to the RPG definition. According to the literature definition both are high fantasy.