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D&D Players: Why you might like Savage Worlds

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Ghostmaker:

--- Quote from: Chris24601 on October 15, 2021, 01:26:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: oggsmash on October 14, 2021, 07:49:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chris24601 on October 14, 2021, 05:48:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: tenbones on October 14, 2021, 03:52:25 PM ---Anyone got some opinions on the Savage Worlds magic system(s) (SWADE, SW Pathfinder, Rifts) holds up in comparison to D&D Vancian magic?

--- End quote ---
The main problem I had was that in Savage Rifts it didn’t feel like magic had the endurance that it did in vanilla Rifts; particularly in relation to the virtually unlimited endurance of cyborgs, robots and even basic firearms.

--- End quote ---

  I always felt magic in vanilla rifts was pretty flaccid compared to the uber technology if we are comparing say a ley line walker and a cyborg.  However, I think it is important to remember in rifts, everyone is not on a level playing field and never has been.  SW has the ley line walker in closer parity IMO to a borg now, and a cyber knight - who before was IMO a bit weak for what the hype around it implied is neck and neck with the heavy hitters.   I guess power points can be in shorter supply, but the chances of a ley line walker actually doing damage to a borg on the first attack now are much higher than they ever were in vanilla rifts.     

   From a deep gameplay perspective I can only relay the game we have running.  The cyborg is a beast, and with a 12.7mm minigun he can smash like no one's business.  The ley line walker however, can also do quite a bit of smashing himself, as well as buff said cyborg to be borderline OP.  So I am not sure I agree with the magic being less capable in SW than vanilla.  In both I always thought they were both quite a bit behind the uber tech...but the catch being they were no reliant on gear, maintenance or power supplies.   I think the later world books (as ALL THE WORLDBOOKS DID) had power creep enough to make magic stronger...but they also powered up all the tech as well. 

   I guess we may see the seams show more as we play more.   So my opinion could change, and it has been a really long time since I played vanilla Rifts.   So maybe you have a point, I just remember magic being fairly weak in the context of the characters available compared to the tech heavy hitters.   I would say the biggest nerf was to the juicer though in bringing the game over to SW.   Probably for the best though.

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Was there, by chance, an edition change or update to Savage Rifts at some point? Because the edition I'm looking at the Ley Line Walker starts with 15 PPE (maybe 20-25 if he gets really lucky on the hero's journey tables) and something as simple as MD armor costs 5 points to make make it last 3 turns. MD Bolts costs 2 per bolt... so 7-10 shots and you're done. Even with the Improved Rapid Recharge Edge you get back 1 PPE per 15 minutes and normally its 1/hour. They can make checks as actions to absorb PPE from a Ley Line or Nexus.

A Vanilla Rifts Ley Line Walker starts with PPE of 3D6x10+20+PE Attribute (so 135+ is average). Armor of Ethan costs 10 PPE for a minute/level (so 16+ actions even at level 1). A basic attack spells like Electric Arc give you 4+ Mega-Damage mega-damage bolts (1/attack for a melee round) for just 8 PPE. You can recover 15 PPE per hour. They get free PPE every melee round with no action cost from a Ley Line or Nexus Point.

And that's just basic stuff. Spells like Magic Net that are basically fight enders cost just 7 PPE and last for multiple minutes in vanilla Rifts, in Savage Rifts an entangle effect costs 2-4 PPE (of 15-25 or so)  and lasts until a successful Strength or Agility test (so could mean they lose just a single action).

Now, like I said, I could be looking at a different Edition of Savage Rifts and Savage Worlds than is current, but to me it felt like a MASSIVE downgrade in magical capability.

--- End quote ---
Savage Worlds did undergo a kind of 3E to 3.5E revision, with Adventurer's Edition (typically abbreviated as SWADE). It changed a few things around.

HappyDaze:

--- Quote from: Chris24601 on October 15, 2021, 01:26:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: oggsmash on October 14, 2021, 07:49:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Chris24601 on October 14, 2021, 05:48:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: tenbones on October 14, 2021, 03:52:25 PM ---Anyone got some opinions on the Savage Worlds magic system(s) (SWADE, SW Pathfinder, Rifts) holds up in comparison to D&D Vancian magic?

--- End quote ---
The main problem I had was that in Savage Rifts it didn’t feel like magic had the endurance that it did in vanilla Rifts; particularly in relation to the virtually unlimited endurance of cyborgs, robots and even basic firearms.

--- End quote ---

  I always felt magic in vanilla rifts was pretty flaccid compared to the uber technology if we are comparing say a ley line walker and a cyborg.  However, I think it is important to remember in rifts, everyone is not on a level playing field and never has been.  SW has the ley line walker in closer parity IMO to a borg now, and a cyber knight - who before was IMO a bit weak for what the hype around it implied is neck and neck with the heavy hitters.   I guess power points can be in shorter supply, but the chances of a ley line walker actually doing damage to a borg on the first attack now are much higher than they ever were in vanilla rifts.     

   From a deep gameplay perspective I can only relay the game we have running.  The cyborg is a beast, and with a 12.7mm minigun he can smash like no one's business.  The ley line walker however, can also do quite a bit of smashing himself, as well as buff said cyborg to be borderline OP.  So I am not sure I agree with the magic being less capable in SW than vanilla.  In both I always thought they were both quite a bit behind the uber tech...but the catch being they were no reliant on gear, maintenance or power supplies.   I think the later world books (as ALL THE WORLDBOOKS DID) had power creep enough to make magic stronger...but they also powered up all the tech as well. 

   I guess we may see the seams show more as we play more.   So my opinion could change, and it has been a really long time since I played vanilla Rifts.   So maybe you have a point, I just remember magic being fairly weak in the context of the characters available compared to the tech heavy hitters.   I would say the biggest nerf was to the juicer though in bringing the game over to SW.   Probably for the best though.

--- End quote ---
Was there, by chance, an edition change or update to Savage Rifts at some point? Because the edition I'm looking at the Ley Line Walker starts with 15 PPE (maybe 20-25 if he gets really lucky on the hero's journey tables) and something as simple as MD armor costs 5 points to make make it last 3 turns. MD Bolts costs 2 per bolt... so 7-10 shots and you're done. Even with the Improved Rapid Recharge Edge you get back 1 PPE per 15 minutes and normally its 1/hour. They can make checks as actions to absorb PPE from a Ley Line or Nexus.

A Vanilla Rifts Ley Line Walker starts with PPE of 3D6x10+20+PE Attribute (so 135+ is average). Armor of Ethan costs 10 PPE for a minute/level (so 16+ actions even at level 1). A basic attack spells like Electric Arc give you 4+ Mega-Damage mega-damage bolts (1/attack for a melee round) for just 8 PPE. You can recover 15 PPE per hour. They get free PPE every melee round with no action cost from a Ley Line or Nexus Point.

And that's just basic stuff. Spells like Magic Net that are basically fight enders cost just 7 PPE and last for multiple minutes in vanilla Rifts, in Savage Rifts an entangle effect costs 2-4 PPE (of 15-25 or so)  and lasts until a successful Strength or Agility test (so could mean they lose just a single action).

Now, like I said, I could be looking at a different Edition of Savage Rifts and Savage Worlds than is current, but to me it felt like a MASSIVE downgrade in magical capability.

--- End quote ---
If you can, get Power Surge along with Level Headed (and maybe Improved Level Headed). Gaining 10 power points anytime you get a Joker can make a huge difference in spell output.

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