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Author Topic: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?  (Read 6248 times)

Shasarak

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #180 on: February 23, 2021, 04:33:45 AM »
Likewise, what die have you rolled most often in your life?  The d6.  What die is the most associated with win-lose gambles of chance?  The d6.  When daddy needs a new pair of shoes from the craps game in the back alley, what is being rolled?  D6.  What is the only die that feels right for the opposed gamble that is initiative and surprise?  The d6.
.

Of course the most rolled die is going to be a d20.

What am I some kind of yahtzee geek?
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Chris24601

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #181 on: February 23, 2021, 07:58:50 AM »
Of course the most rolled die is going to be a d20.

What am I some kind of yahtzee geek?
Indeed.

I’ll also point out that 3e and 5e both exploded well beyond AD&D and what did they have in common? A unified mechanic of roll high on a d20+mod vs. DC.

Because 1d20 vs. DC 18 (15%) is within 2% of a 1-in-6. (16.67%), and DC 14 (35%) is within 2% of 2-in-6 (33.33%).

In fact, you’re no more than 2.5% from any percentage you care to bring in from various other dice chances.

It’s got enough granularity to pretty much sub in for any of the odds-based dice rolls without requiring you to read two dice at once like the percentiles that few people enjoy (I’ll give EOTB that much).

It’s also got a good feel for rolling (d4, d8 and d10 are too pointy, the d12 feels good, but no one likes working with its oddball percentages which is why it mostly only serves as a damage die).

And as EOTB points out, it’s got an easy “hit for the fences” roll high is good feel to it.

You can hate on unified mechanics as much as you like (they’re mechanics, they don’t have feelings), but it’s inarguable they played a big role in catapulting WotC-era D&D into the stratosphere. Even it’s biggest competition (Pathfinder) used the same basic resolution.

I think the lesson to take from it is that the key to unified mechanics is to pick the right mechanic to unify things with.

The core d20 System mechanic has pretty much the best of all worlds in being almost percentile level granularity, with a flat probability curve with even distributions (each face is 5%) that makes calculating modifer sizes and target numbers to match the desired odds rather intuitive (it doesn’t hurt that US currency outside the penny and $1 bill also break on the 5s... counting in 5s is natural to Americans) and married to the “single die that feels good in the hand” advantages of the d6.

The only thing it really doesn’t do well is damage because it’s range is too high for the numbers to be manageable; which is why the other dice stick around for the job of delivering manageable sized damage numbers without having to use fractions.

Nosaje

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #182 on: February 23, 2021, 10:19:53 AM »
First post here. Been lurking a while, finally decided to join.

For me AD&D and 2nd Edition are the best. If I had the opportunity I would play/dm either of those two over anything else. A second choice would be B/X or BECMI. 5e is okay, it just feels kind of watered down compared to the older editions.  3rd and 4th no real desire to play other than as a one shot.

Samsquantch

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #183 on: February 23, 2021, 12:44:03 PM »
Welcome Nosaje!

I share your opinion on versions preference though I would add 3e into my list of enjoyed versions. 4e was just not D&D at all for me, it was too much like a video game simulator with crappy graphics.

Wicked Woodpecker of West

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #184 on: February 24, 2021, 05:21:50 PM »
Quote
You do not want to roll percentile dice for attack rolls.  It works just fine but doesn’t feel right as compared to that rock of hope that rolls pleasingly around the table.  Why did top secret never catch on?  % dice.  Why did Runequest mainly serve as the darling of RPG aficionados instead of 8th grade lunch rooms?  % dice.

Because Americans have no souls, that's why. And in Poland Warhammer rules supereme ;)

Shasarak

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #185 on: February 24, 2021, 05:27:38 PM »
4e was just not D&D at all for me, it was too much like a video game simulator with crappy graphics.

You had graphics with yours?  Damn, I had to imagine my own.
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Nosaje

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #186 on: February 24, 2021, 05:52:14 PM »
Welcome Nosaje!

I share your opinion on versions preference though I would add 3e into my list of enjoyed versions. 4e was just not D&D at all for me, it was too much like a video game simulator with crappy graphics.

TY! I'll be honest I played a total of one session of 4e. It was blah. To video gamey as you said. I would only play it if my arm got twisted.

AgentBJ09

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #187 on: February 24, 2021, 06:21:03 PM »

And by players I also mean DMs. 

I like alot of things about 5e.  But I started with D&D B/X in the early 1980's, so something like The Keep on the Borderlands is quintessential D&D for me.  Venturing into monster-filled dungeons for fortune and glory, with resource management and player ingenuity playing a big part of whether your PC survives.  Not saying you can't do this in 5e, but its built for more heroic play, and tends to hand-wave some of the struggles a PC would encounter in the older versions.  Which might be a good or a bad thing, depending upon what you want from the game.

So B/X is probably my favorite version.  What is your favorite version of D&D, and why?

At the moment, 3.5 is my favorite version. It's the version I started with and have the most experience with. (I went with Pathfinder when 4th Edition came out because I didn't trust what I was seeing, but boy howdy was I ever ignorant of the wokeness Paizo was harboring.)

3.5 aside, I'm trying to branch out to B/X, 1st Edition, and 2nd Edition. 2nd Edition I know rather well thanks to Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, but the others I'm coming into very late through retro clones.

KingCheops

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #188 on: February 25, 2021, 08:49:52 PM »
Welcome Nosaje!

I share your opinion on versions preference though I would add 3e into my list of enjoyed versions. 4e was just not D&D at all for me, it was too much like a video game simulator with crappy graphics.

TY! I'll be honest I played a total of one session of 4e. It was blah. To video gamey as you said. I would only play it if my arm got twisted.

Well I for one am just glad that you gave it a fair chance.

It's a well known fact that SimCity is 100% the better game than Final Fantasy Tactics.  Especially when used on the table top to represent medieval adventurers.

Arnwolf666

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #189 on: February 25, 2021, 08:51:51 PM »
I like 5E. It’s a good game. But I prefer pre 3.x

Some of my friends and I were talking about creating kits for a 2E games that would emulate what we like about 5E. That was just an idea. 

KingCheops

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #190 on: February 25, 2021, 09:00:01 PM »
Some of my friends and I were talking about creating kits for a 2E games that would emulate what we like about 5E. That was just an idea.

Actually a pretty good idea.  Some of the actual published kits were pretty close to 5e in power anyway.  And if you're willing to use the Players Options series I think you're pretty close for a lot of stuff like Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Battlemasters.

Opaopajr

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #191 on: February 26, 2021, 12:15:25 AM »
Welcome Nosaje, fellow basker in 2e glory!  8) We traipse in yonder unicorn glen with thoughts of chivalry dancing in our heads.
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Aglondir

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #192 on: February 26, 2021, 01:00:48 AM »
Quote
But to riff off the popular mantra, I'm starting to wonder if no gaming is better than okay gaming.

Without lot of OK-experiences man rarely can achieve any excellent ones.

This is true. Perhaps why they say "5E is everyone's second-favorite system." Actually they used to say that 5 years ago. I imagine that by now, 5E has become the favorite system of many people. To that I say, enjoy.

And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters.

― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion

Sable Wyvern

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #193 on: February 26, 2021, 01:14:32 AM »
I played almost no D&D until 3e came along, just tiny bit of 83 Basic and a few 2e games.

I quite enjoyed 3e and some derivatives at the time, but would never go back to it, except maybe something really stripped down like Mongoose Lone Wolf.

I enjoyed 4e at first, but came to despise it as anything other than a pretty good tactical skirmish game.

I ran some 1e dungeon crawling some years back, when OSR was still a fairly new thing, and I quite enjoyed it. This was my first exposure to the true strengths of D&D (IMO). When I started thinking about doing something similar again, I was leaning towards B/X or some derivative, finally settling on ACKS (which I haven't played yet, but plan to after my current game).

If I have to limit myself to the games I've played, 1E wins hands down. If I'm allowed to include games I haven't played yet, it's ACKS (without too much of the stuff that gradually getting added onto it, and which seems will be integrated into 2e, moving it further away from it's B/X roots). B/X or ACKS feels to me like all the upside of 1e, but more streamlined and coherent.

There's nothing I've heard or read about 5e that suggests to me I have any reason to play it over 1e, B/X or ACKS.

Why ACKS? At it's core, it's B/X with a very lightweight feat system, ritual magic rules that let you use higher level spells without ever making them easy, what appear to be some pretty decent domain and campaign activity rules inspired by BECMI, and a pretty good system for building or modifying classes to match whatever setting you want to go for.

Brad

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Re: D&D players - do you prefer 5e, or an older version?
« Reply #194 on: February 26, 2021, 10:01:40 AM »
I would happily play AD&D 2nd, and keep trying to convince the current DM to run that instead as that is his favorite edition. Gonna keep pushing the issue.

He texted me a couple days ago with, "Ok, after much deliberation I think the way forward is 2e using the siege engine and AC system from C&C."

Looks like my arguments worked.