D&D Player Demographics

jhkim · May 25, 2023, 11:10:02 AM

Quote from: S'mon on May 24, 2023, 07:00:26 PM
60-40 seems about right to me too. Back in 3e days it was more like 75-25; back in 1e days it was more like 90-10.

That sounds about right. I collected some data back in the early 2000s. The WotC survey during the 2e era (conducted in 1998) found 19% female among TTRPG players in general. That was the best controlled data. It was based on a survey of postcards sent to randomized 20,000 household via a survey team - with a followup for those who were hobby gamers.

https://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/whatis/demographics.html

Brad · May 25, 2023, 12:59:49 PM

If it really is 39% female, then why do they keep going on and on about "gatekeeping" bullshit?

Mistwell · May 25, 2023, 01:18:38 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on May 24, 2023, 09:33:39 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on May 24, 2023, 03:45:45 PM
According to Wizards' internal studies of the player population:

As interpreted by GeekWire.com, whoever the fuck they are.

I'd want to see the raw data before trusting Mistwell's cherry picked source.

I didn't cherry pick the source and I too have never heard of them. It's just the only source I have. I also, like you, would rather see the raw data and not trust Geekwire to interpret it. I looked but could not find the raw data but on this one you and I agree. If anyone else here can find it I'd welcome that because my guess is there is more to this information than what Geekwire included. I doubt anything is "wrong" with what they did (though that could be also) but I suspect there was more to it.

Mistwell · May 25, 2023, 01:19:48 PM

Quote from: Brad on May 25, 2023, 12:59:49 PM
If it really is 39% female, then why do they keep going on and on about "gatekeeping" bullshit?

Complaining is a hobby for those who perpetually complain?

Armchair Gamer · May 25, 2023, 01:29:22 PM

Quote from: Venka on May 24, 2023, 08:40:34 PM
I believe this is a reasonable poll for the plugged in dnd online crowd, sure. It's obviously not a poll of anywhere close to all D&D players and probably misses very statistically significant other groups.

Given the suffocating scale of Official D&D, I'm not sure any other group can be considered statistically significant--even the "still playing old rules with consistent groups, but disconnected from the current industry" group that I suspect is the second-largest part of the hobby.

Mistwell · May 25, 2023, 04:57:16 PM

Different somewhat related news (?) I didn't want to make a new thread for:

Regarding the upcoming version of the game:

"Our print runs are pretty darn big and printers are telling us you can't give us these three books at the same time." said Crawford. And Chris Perkins added that "The print runs we're talking about are massive. That's been not only true of the core books, but also Tasha's Cauldron. It's what we call a high-end problem."

And from unconfirmed source:

"Tasha's initial print run for ONE of WotC's distributors was larger than the full print numbers for all of 4e combined."

Venka · May 25, 2023, 05:17:45 PM

Quote from: Brad on May 25, 2023, 12:59:49 PM
If it really is 39% female, then why do they keep going on and on about "gatekeeping" bullshit?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/in-a-milestone-most-college-educated-workers-in-the-u-s-are-now-women/

The template is:
1- If percent of "group" is less than 50%:
It's not good enough that they are (whatever percent) because it's less than half and half is fair!
2- If percent of "group" is greater than 50%
It's not good enough that they are (whatever percent) because (fish up literally any statistic here, such as ignoring jobs / tasks / skills etc to frame "group" as a victim even though they are over-represented).
3- If percent of "group" is absurdly high
"group" took over because they are good and smart. It's good that this happened and this should keep happening. In the past, "not group" was really bad so this is good.

Aglondir · May 25, 2023, 05:21:42 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on May 25, 2023, 04:57:16 PM
"Tasha's initial print run for ONE of WotC's distributors was larger than the full print numbers for all of 4e combined."

Which sounds impressive at first, until you take into consideration the hatred for 4E. How do the sales of Tasha compare to the combined print run of Pathfinder? Because that's where the potential 4E customers went.

Shrieking Banshee · May 25, 2023, 06:04:57 PM

I don't know why people find it so hard to believe that 5e is popular. It's an absolutely TERRIBLE game, but it's extremely popular. When has more popularity correlated with more quality - ever?

Ratman_tf · May 25, 2023, 06:20:19 PM

Quote from: Brad on May 25, 2023, 12:59:49 PM
If it really is 39% female, then why do they keep going on and on about "gatekeeping" bullshit?

We have to have precisely 50/50 split on sex. If even one woman or man unbalances the equation, we have to cull them.

Ratman_tf · May 25, 2023, 06:24:33 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on May 24, 2023, 03:45:45 PM
Often there is a lot of discussion here about who plays D&D these days. Here is some semi-official data on that I thought might be worth discussing here.

According to Wizards' internal studies of the player population:

60% of D&D players are male, 39% are female, and 1% identify otherwise

I think we can throw these numbers in the trash. If they count those who "identify otherwise" as a category, how many of the other categories are just "identifying" as such?

rusty shackleford · May 26, 2023, 06:01:29 PM

A software-related group I am a part of has been trying to do outreach for years now to appeal to women. It has never budged above 5% female overall. Miraculously in the past few years we've not only gone above 5% but are, last I checked, closing in on 30%.

Also to the best of my knowledge, we've recruited very few new females

Mistwell · May 26, 2023, 06:36:21 PM

Quote from: Aglondir on May 25, 2023, 05:21:42 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on May 25, 2023, 04:57:16 PM
"Tasha's initial print run for ONE of WotC's distributors was larger than the full print numbers for all of 4e combined."

Which sounds impressive at first, until you take into consideration the hatred for 4E. How do the sales of Tasha compare to the combined print run of Pathfinder? Because that's where the potential 4E customers went.

The initial sales of 4e well outsold Pathfinder at the time. Pathfinder only overtook it a year later.

Mistwell · May 26, 2023, 06:37:26 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on May 25, 2023, 06:24:33 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on May 24, 2023, 03:45:45 PM
Often there is a lot of discussion here about who plays D&D these days. Here is some semi-official data on that I thought might be worth discussing here.

According to Wizards' internal studies of the player population:

60% of D&D players are male, 39% are female, and 1% identify otherwise

I think we can throw these numbers in the trash. If they count those who "identify otherwise" as a category, how many of the other categories are just "identifying" as such?

You're hung up on 1% thinking that is enough to trash the entire thing? Weird.

jeff37923 · May 26, 2023, 06:50:44 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on May 26, 2023, 06:36:21 PM
Quote from: Aglondir on May 25, 2023, 05:21:42 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on May 25, 2023, 04:57:16 PM
"Tasha's initial print run for ONE of WotC's distributors was larger than the full print numbers for all of 4e combined."

Which sounds impressive at first, until you take into consideration the hatred for 4E. How do the sales of Tasha compare to the combined print run of Pathfinder? Because that's where the potential 4E customers went.

The initial sales of 4e well outsold Pathfinder at the time. Pathfinder only overtook it a year later.

Initial sales of 4e were good only because nobody knew how much of a turd it was with all the shine WotC put on it. Pathfinder overtook it a year later because it took time to write, playtest, publish, and ship the Pathfinder core books. IIRC, "overtook" is a poor word to describe the cratering effect 4e had on people's faith in WotC to produce a good game.