Behind Pathfinder and the horrible new Star Wars game.

I don't think this is surprising, though, given that there effectively is no "current" edition of D&D.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;641183I don't think this is surprising...

Well, sort-of. Personally, I once thought I'd never see the day. On the other hand, the last 4 or 5 years have been like watching a slow motion train wreck.

So much for all those reprint and pdf sales.

If us old guys needed a reminder about where the market is, this says it ain't us.

Considering that there has been nothing new besides the playtest of 5th for about the past year, it is actually kind of testament to the power of the D&D brand name. They have done nothing and still come in 3rd in sales.

Yeah, for not releasing much of anything, they are still making sales. Though I suspect those numbers are WAY lower than Hasbro requires.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;641226So much for all those reprint and pdf sales.

Anyone actually know if those are included in the available numbers?

Quote from: Black Vulmea;641226If us old guys needed a reminder about where the market is, this says it ain't us.

I'm not sure how it says that unless we know that reprint and OSR sales are both abysmal.

Quote from: Bobloblah;641230I'm not sure how it says that unless we know that reprint and OSR sales are both abysmal.

They don't have to be "abysmal" to be not-good.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;641232They don't have to be "abysmal" to be not-good.

True, but I'm not sure there's information to even make that call. And no wonder. It's messy. How much does each producer sell? How much overlap is there? How much is made through sales? Kickstarter? On eBay, Noble Knight, etc. for original product?

Quote from: Bobloblah;641230Anyone actually know if those are included in the available numbers?

As far as I understand the methodology, they ring some shops, companies and distributors and ask what is selling. There are no numbers per say. But I suspect most reprint sales where not done through the distributor network so will not be included.

Quote from: RPGPundit;641183Behind Pathfinder and the horrible new Star Wars game.

I don't think this is surprising, though, given that there effectively is no "current" edition of D&D.

RPGPundit

Do these numbers also include the re-prints of the older editions, or just 4e D&D?

Even though I didn't like 3e, WotC had a good thing in it.

Then they told everyone who played and liked 3e (and previous editions*) that they were idiots for doing so, thus firing about 75% of their customer base.  They also fired the greatest non-them ally they had, Paizo.  I didn't like the 3e rules but Paizo was smart enough, when they ran the Dragon and Dungeon paper mags, to do stuff like get Gary to write for them, and to publish things like Maure Castle (and associated adventures) by he and Rob Kuntz.  

What the fuck did Wizards think was going to happen.

Paizo told the 75% "You don't have to wait around to see if you like 4e or if it will grow on you: we'll keep on writing 3rd ed and supporting it."  And it was hugely successful.

Wizards immediately tried to "undo" the firing with Essentials - a product that was more 3e-like, wrapped in a Basic D&D from 1981 box.  My god, when you opened the damn thing you didn't get new book smell, you got the scent of desperation.

Star Wars is now ascendant with the news from Disney, so of course its going to be popular.

"All is proceeding as I have foreseen."**

That the 1e reprints and PDF re-releases haven't buoyed up WotC isn't surprising.  Half the old-school fans I know*** are pretty cynical about WotC these days, and many looked at the reprints and said "Meh," and went on about their business with their 30-year-old books and continued to play.  The remaining half wasn't really enough to cause that big of a jump in sales - even if tens of thousands of copies sold (and I'd wager tens of thousands of copies have sold).  But I hope it - and the PDF releases' sales - are enough to convince WotC that old school gaming is worth supporting.  That's sales data we don't have.  But I hope that's the case.  See, 'cause I don't care about lotfp, I don't care about acks, I don't care about carcosa, nor dcc nor any of that shit.  Nobody can touch Gygaxian AD&D 1e (not even LA or Mythus system or even Cyborg Commando).  So seeing 1e get tacit support from WotC is very cool to me.  Even if it's only the occasional minor "thing" from them.

SO.

With all that said I think it's a temporary thing, I think 5e will buoy them up to a strong 2nd or weak 1st place in sales again.  I think Pathfinder will probably run neck-and-neck with them for a long, long time.  

...

*=although I have to say their public face on enwurld was weird - they spent the promo-wind-up phase of 4e's release pissing all over older editions, then their spokesposter on enw (and I can't recall who it was now) said "3e is dead, if I play D&D it will be 4e - or OD&D or AD&D".  W to the eird.

**=I didn't foresee anything, I just wanted to throw the Palpatine quote out there.

***=online.  Most rational people who stay away from the internet (and most rational people do) don't know or care or give a fig about edition wars or whatever the hell.  (And I admit I'm not one of them, but that's obvious.)

Well, what is the current D&D release schedule? Are there any new, high-profile D&D products being sold right now? It seems to me that WotC is letting the brand stay fallow for a bit while preparing for 5th edition.

Would that be the kinda shitty "beginners" box for Star Wars?

Because the actual game isn't out yet...

Long-term, this is likely to benefit WotC. No new releases means customers don't get excess splats that end up detailing crap no one cares about. It also leaves them wanting more.

No matter what anyone says, the day 5e goes on sale, the top 3 selling rpg books are going to be the PHB, DMG, and MM. And it will likely remain that way for at least a year following release, and probably longer.


(What I'm really interested in is when the inevitable Pathfinder 2e gets released. That is going to be very interesting. I'd be extremely surprised if a Paizo team isn't already developing it.)

Quote from: danbuter;641272(What I'm really interested in is when the inevitable Pathfinder 2e gets released. That is going to be very interesting. I'd be extremely surprised if a Paizo team isn't already developing it.)

I really hope not. I'm not a huge PF fan but they've done the hobby a huge favor by validating that adventures can sell and they'd do us an even greater service by showing us the edition treadmill isn't the only way to profitability.