Quote from: thecasualoblivion;571876Actually, 5E is for disenfranchised 2E players and they will form their own faction of 5E diehards at odds with 4E fans, 3E/PF fans, and the OSR.

That would explain why I like it, but not why 1989 hates it.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;571878That would explain why I like it, but not why 1989 hates it.

Me too. I think 1989 MIGHT like it when he sees the final version, maybe.  I have to redownload it tomorrow, the printer at work ran out of paper half way through.

Ben called it weeks ago and said straight up the game will be right in my wheelhouse, and yes, overall I'm ok with what I've seen and run so far.

Quote from: Marleycat;571880Ben called it weeks ago and said straight up the game will be right in my wheelhouse, and yes, overall I'm ok with what I've seen and run so far.

Yup. I knew you would like it a lot.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;571878That would explain why I like it, but not why 1989 hates it.

It's for disenfranchised 2E players, not 2E players. Disenfranchised 2E players want a 2E style AD&D game, but at the same time don't want to go back to 2E itself.

Quote from: Benoist;571881Yup. I knew you would like it a lot.

Really good call Ben I definitely see things I hate, but I like and respect you all the more for understanding my preferences even better than myself.  Hence why I'm working hard to "really" understand where you are coming from.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;571883It's for disenfranchised 2E players, not 2E players. Disenfranchised 2E players want a 2E style AD&D game, but at the same time don't want to go back to 2E itself.

Bullshit. There is no such thing, being 2e is modular. Now maybe if you refined that to say...."currently published and fully supported modular game" maybe and not even correct then. 2e players want modularity but the no limits 3e goes against our demand for internal logic and DM final decision.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;571883It's for disenfranchised 2E players, not 2E players. Disenfranchised 2E players want a 2E style AD&D game, but at the same time don't want to go back to 2E itself.

Ah, yeah, fair point.

Of course, it's a funny thing...if they keep on this course, I'll give it a go. If they shift directions dramatically, I'll shrug it off and keep playing Savage Worlds.

Oh, who am I kidding? I'll keep playing Savage Worlds no matter what.

The push to change it is overwhelming.  It's really disheartening to watch on a daily basis.  Hard to keep in mind that it's pretty much the same people for the most part.

But even the interviews -seem- to show that Mike Mearls 'gets it', and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until I have reason not to.

Still...Marley, did you see what they did to Grease?  That's one sick-strong spell now.  At least before you could crawl out of it without a save.  And it's bigger, too; from a 10foot patch to a 10' radius, spherical.

Quote from: CerilianSeeming;571890The push to change it is overwhelming.  It's really disheartening to watch on a daily basis.  Hard to keep in mind that it's pretty much the same people for the most part.

But even the interviews -seem- to show that Mike Mearls 'gets it', and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until I have reason not to.

Still...Marley, did you see what they did to Grease?  That's one sick-strong spell now.  At least before you could crawl out of it without a save.  And it's bigger, too; from a 10foot patch to a 10' radius, spherical.

I downloaded (printed) about half of it, so no I haven't read it beyond a quick skim at work.  I didn't want to until I print it all out.  So tell me again about "grease"? 10ft no save? You can use mundane ways to get out right? It's not SoS or SoD?

Quote from: Marleycat;571897I downloaded (printed) about half of so no I haven't read it beyond a quick skim at work.  I didn't want to until I print it all out.  So tell me again about "grease"?

I'll go on the assumption you know/knew how it worked in 3E?  
In Next, it's still a 1st level spell.  10' radius sphere of grease, but anyone in the area or anyone who tries to move within the area makes a save or falls down and loses all movement that round.  Of course, next round, when they try to move again (be it crawling, walking, or whatever), they invoke the save again and if they fail...they fall down and lose all movement.  And so on.  It locks them down until a save is made.

At least in 3.5 you could 'get around' it by virtue of 2 facts -- it was only 10' x 10', and if you fell the round before you could crawl out the next round without invoking another balance check.

My point was simply how much the spell was powered up from 2E, though.  Most spells have been depowered (some horribly...like sleep).  Others though have been really kitted up.

Quote from: CerilianSeeming;571899I'll go on the assumption you know/knew how it worked in 3E?  
In Next, it's still a 1st level spell.  10' radius sphere of grease, but anyone in the area or anyone who tries to move within the area makes a save or falls down and loses all movement that round.  Of course, next round, when they try to move again (be it crawling, walking, or whatever), they invoke the save again and if they fail...they fall down and lose all movement.  And so on.  It locks them down until a save is made.

At least in 3.5 you could 'get around' it by virtue of 2 facts -- it was only 10' x 10', and if you fell the round before you could crawl out the next round without invoking another balance check.

My point was simply how much the spell was powered up from 2E, though.  Most spells have been depowered (some horribly...like sleep).  Others though have been really kitted up.

I know 3x so yes I get you.  I love it personally because it's a spell that's multi-use and THAT sir is where I want Dnd to go. Yes it has nice combat use but outside combat? Squee!!! It's lockdown IF it works but a nuisance if not. Worth the risk reward yep.

I have to inflict these new updates on my players.

Yep, this might be fun!!

Quote from: 1989;571067This looks like an unholy mess of 3e and 4e.

...

5e is just going to piss people off. Novel mechanics never seen before in any edition of D&D, combined with 3e feats and 4e level-based powers. Great job, WotC! I threw it straight into the Recycle Bin.

Even without your valid points about lacking anything to do with pre-3rd edition games, this in and of itself shows how stupid and contradictory this "edition for all fans" is.

As a general rule, people who like 3e don't like 4e. People who like 4e don't like 3e. So why the fuck would you draw on two virtually incompatible editions for a game that's supposedly for everyone?

Quote from: Kiero;571912Even without your valid points about lacking anything to do with pre-3rd edition games, this in and of itself shows how stupid and contradictory this "edition for all fans" is.

As a general rule, people who like 3e don't like 4e. People who like 4e don't like 3e. So why the fuck would you draw on two virtually incompatible editions for a game that's supposedly for everyone?

From what I've seen on TBP you are a well known hater of Dnd pre 4e so yeah. Nice of you to chip in though, seriously.

Quote from: Marleycat;571915From what I've seen on TBP you are a well known hater of Dnd pre 4e so yeah. Nice of you to chip in though, seriously.

How cute.