I just saw this on Mike Sugarbaker's blog:

QuoteD&D Minis updated for 4e compatibility, rulebook now online

So just how many hands does WotC have, and do any of them know what even one of the others is doing? I mean, not to say anything bad about making the new, updated-for-4th D&D Minis rulebook free online - that's lovely and thoughtful. What's odd is that they'd release minis rules that have been adjusted for 4e compatibility and not even seem aware of how the 4e rules are still secret, available only for 5 large and an NDA, and madly speculated-about. Naturally, the minis rules are probably not a rosetta stone of 4e insights; they're only going to create confusion, and WotC must know this. Hell, is that their goal at this point? Jeez.

It's a 48-page PDF.  If you've been following the 4e speculation, probably something that'll interest you.

I've been thinking, in a way Ogre Cave is a reflection of the state of the industry/hobby.

Mike S. likes to talk about a) D&D, but only in marketing terms; b) indie games. Everything else does not exist.

Some things I gleaned from the download

1) if you lost half of your hit points you are bloodied and there are abilities that take advantage of this.

2) Some abilities roll against a Defense instead of AC which appear to be one of the 3 3rd editions saves.Fortitude, Reflex or Will.

3) attacks can include followups which appear to be special abilities.

4) Some ongoing effects (I guess like a stinking cloud) can be removed by a save.

5) It talks about how different powers have different recharge rates.

6) Talks about combat advantage gives bonus and allows use of certain abilities. Like being invisible and flanking.

7) The Attacks of Opportunity rules seems more simple. However it may be due to the mini game. Basically a free attack is given for trying to move out of combat or when a person is adjacent somebody doing certain types of attack like ranged combat or spells. (If I am reading the symbols right)

I may be stupid but this rule is unclear to me. I think it mean you are allow only one attack per turn.

QuoteOne Per Turn: There is no limit to the number of opportunity attacks a creatures can make in a round, but it can make only one in a give creature's turn.

I think that the major points I see. My impression is that it is a highly modified and tweaked 3rd edition and not a radical break like from 2nd to 3rd. Basically a whole new packages of class, and feats

Rob Conley

Rob, I don't have the page ref and context, but that seems to mean that while you can make an unlimited number of AoOs per round, you can only make a single AoO against any one creature, even though that creature may provoke more than one AoO that round.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityRob, I don't have the page ref and context, but that seems to mean that while you can make an unlimited number of AoOs per round, you can only make a single AoO against any one creature, even though that creature may provoke more than one AoO that round.

That's how I read it too.

Thanks that helped to clear it up.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityI've been thinking, in a way Ogre Cave is a reflection of the state of the industry/hobby.

Mike S. likes to talk about a) D&D, but only in marketing terms; b) indie games. Everything else does not exist.

I seriously think that isn't the state of the industry, do much as it's the state of online rpg fandom. I kinda disagree that he talks about D&D in terms of marketing. He (like most of the other chumps) really only talks about D&D in terms of resentment. The forgie games (not the indie games at all, because indie is much larger than what he talks about) are championed as alternatives. Did the resentment come first? Or the championing? It's hard to say.

This guy swings back and forth between "how dare they release an open gaming license that encourages third party publishers to release mounds of unbuyable d20 material" to "how dare they not open the license immediately? Don't they know WOTC owes the community this license?" right over back to "how dare they release the minis rules? What kind of incompetent boobs are they at WOTC?!!!"

So basically you get a lot of "how dare theys" and stuff.
Seriously, follow this guy around a bit. It's hilarious. The only constant factor is how annoyed he is, and as far as I can tell he doesn't even play D&D on any kind of regular basis.

It's easy to blog about, has no insight or content whatsoever, and his audience is always pleased by it.

Because they too are chumps.

The D&D hate does get old.

Quote from: darThe D&D hate does get old.

So does the bitching about the bitching.  

Especially when it glosses over any positive things that are said. :keke:

Quote from: blakkieSo does the bitching about the bitching.  

Especially when it glosses over any positive things that are said. :keke:

Good point.

So I'll add that I like the podcast and the blog, and appreciate both of them. I also like the announcement about the mini's rules and I recognize they gave WOTC cudo's for making these rules free.

I don't have any special love for WOTC or D&D mini's or 4th. At least not that I feel a knee jerk need to defend any of it or WOTC. (OK, maybe a little as a middling fan of D&D and some other WOTC products)

What I am responding as, is a fan of the Ogre Cave podcast and the blog.