Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;753048The most amazing thing happened today here in Germany.

Pegasus, the German publisher of Cthulhu and Shadowrun, "suddenly" decided to make the PDFs of the Cthulhu Player Guide and the Keeper Handbook available for free.

Uhrwerk, the German publisher of The One Ring, Hollow Earth Expedition, Space 1889 (and more) just posted to his Facebook account: "This is MADNESS!"

That's awesome. Are they the new versions?

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;753048The most amazing thing happened today here in Germany.

Pegasus, the German publisher of Cthulhu and Shadowrun, "suddenly" decided to make the PDFs of the Cthulhu Player Guide and the Keeper Handbook available for free.

Uhrwerk, the German publisher of The One Ring, Hollow Earth Expedition, Space 1889 (and more) just posted to his Facebook account: "This is MADNESS!"

It's brilliant is what it is.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;753031I actually can't fault them at all for keeping the basic rules online only.  This isn't like the 80s, when it didn't really matter if you had all the most recent errata, and in fact hardly anyone ever did.  Even with my Dragon subscription, I certainly didn't update my rules each time a clarification came out in Dragon.

However, in this digital age, everyone has easy access to all the info instantly.  No more waiting a month for the next Dragon issue, and even then finding someone who had it.  In the 80s you could easily get away  with playing with older rules.  Today?  Much harder since the info is accessible and instant.  So there's a legitimate reason to keep it a living document.  IMO anyway.

I think this is a potentially poisonous mindset for RPGs. The idea that they need a constant stream of errata is borne out of online theorywank, not play. That's not to say that an RPG can't get something so wrong it deserves errata (see 4e Skill Challenges), but the idea that it needs endless official tinkering, and is somehow incomplete for the end user without it, is harmful.

Quote from: Bobloblah;753056I think this is a potentially poisonous mindset for RPGs. The idea that they need a constant stream of errata is borne out of online theorywank, not play. That's not to say that an RPG can't get something so wrong it deserves errata (see 4e Skill Challenges), but the idea that it needs endless official tinkering, and is somehow incomplete for the end user without it, is harmful.

I can only speak for myself, but personally?  I couldn't care less about 95% of errata.  Just go with the flow of the game and make a ruling if something odd creeps up.

Same here, but I think that mindset changed with the proliferation of regularly updated software. People view errata very differently now.

Quote from: Bobloblah;753056It's brilliant is what it is.



I think this is a potentially poisonous mindset for RPGs. The idea that they need a constant stream of errata is borne out of online theorywank, not play. That's not to say that an RPG can't get something so wrong it deserves errata (see 4e Skill Challenges), but the idea that it needs endless official tinkering, and is somehow incomplete for the end user without it, is harmful.

The errata thing was the major reason I quit 4e I just couldn't keep up with what people were saying were even issues if anything.

Quote from: Bobloblah;753061Same here, but I think that mindset changed with the proliferation of regularly updated software. People view errata very differently now.

I don't disagree.  I blame the internet age

Quote from: Marleycat;753063The errata thing was the major reason I quit 4e I just couldn't keep up with what people were saying were even issues if anything.

4e is the poster child for that mindset run wild. I have little doubt WotC inculcated this deliberately as a way to drive subscriptions to the online tools.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;753065I don't disagree.  I blame the internet age

"The Internet" is an easy target, but I think it has far more specifically to do with the advent of commonly used software on personal computers. Software programs are the first broadly available products most of us have had access to that can receive (and benefit from) endless updates. This isn't even practicable or possible with most physical products.

If I were cynical I might have a hard time disagreeing. It might well have been a factor though. I mostly think it was shoddy quality control.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;753031I actually can't fault them at all for keeping the basic rules online only.  This isn't like the 80s, when it didn't really matter if you had all the most recent errata, and in fact hardly anyone ever did.

Why does it matter more now? If I'm playing at my table it's my game... unless it's really truly 'broken', which isn't likely, I can deal with issues as they come up.
Having an actual printed copy, or two, or three to toss casually around the table is going to trump any concerns I have about how up-to-the-minute accurate my copy of the rules is... and I'd probably have that going on my tablet anyway.
Also, I've played at a table where the GM was forever and constantly making minor tweaks to the rules... it was really annoying because none of them were responding to real issues in the game... it was just his being bored and wanting to play with the numbers.

Oh, and congrats to The Pundit for how happy he seems to be with himself.

Yeah, not to mention the fact that the issues at my table might be quite different (in actual play!) than what the designers or online spherical cow theorists might suppose.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;753011Why? As a living document its going to be edited, futzed with, re-edited, added to, etc. quite a bit. Might as well give it a few years for it to settle in in its final form before wasting ink .

Is it going to be a living document? As I understand it the first iteration would come out with the Starter Set and have the character generation and levelling rules, then when the PHB comes out the basic book will be updated to include content from the DMG and MM. There's absolutely no suggestion, from what I've seen, that it'll be further updated after that.

Quote from: Marleycat;753034It should be very doable I mean if FantasyCraft can pull it off why couldn't WotC?

Now it's not exactly how I would have done it or envisioned it but it seems very workable.

I'm happy enough with what I've seen from the standard game in the 5E playtests. But if the D&D devs provide even half as many levers, options, and variants as FantasyCraft, I'll be doing cartwheels. That truly is a toolbox game you can make your own.

Quote from: Bobloblah;753056I think this is a potentially poisonous mindset for RPGs. The idea that they need a constant stream of errata is borne out of online theorywank, not play. That’s not to say that an RPG can't get something so wrong it deserves errata (see 4e Skill Challenges), but the idea that it needs endless official tinkering, and is somehow incomplete for the end user without it, is harmful.

Hopefully the concept that there is no One True Way to play 5E will disarm a lot of that RAW wankery, where the system is BROKEN if three rounds of a level 2 spell Burning Hands has a 60 per cent chance of doing 10 per cent more damage than two rounds of a level 3 spell Flames Strike.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;753048Uhrwerk, the German publisher of The One Ring, Hollow Earth Expedition, Space 1889 (and more) just posted to his Facebook account: "This is MADNESS!"

Looks like the post got yanked (or the link got mangled) - care to paraphrase?

Quote from: Haffrung;753080I'm happy enough with what I've seen from the standard game in the 5E playtests. But if the D&D devs provide even half as many levers, options, and variants as FantasyCraft, I'll be doing cartwheels. That truly is a toolbox game you can make your own.



Hopefully the concept that there is no One True Way to play 5E will disarm a lot of that RAW wankery, where the system is BROKEN if three rounds of a level 2 spell Burning Hands has a 60 per cent chance of doing 10 per cent more damage than two rounds of a level 3 spell Flames Strike.

Wait - can you repeat that? I just picked up my calculator...

Quote from: RPGPundit;753000So the other shoe has finally fucking dropped.  Here's Mike Mearls announcing what I've known for months and had to keep a lid on; what I had tried to hint at and a few of you got, but most did not.  Yes, there will be a Basic D&D.


But its more than just that. It will be on a PDF.  It will be FREE.  And most importantly, it will be the true Core D&D.   Not the PHB, not the DMG, not that 10000-feats version. No. The basic version will be the default version of the D&D game, the one that all adventure products will use for their baseline.

This is hugely significant. This is the victory of Old-school thinking over all else, and I don't mind if I take more than a little credit for the lobbying I have done to create and hold this vision as a Consultant.

You're all welcome.

It is also an incredibly bold move for Wizards to make.  It means that in theory, all you'll ever need to play D&D will be, in the first few months, the Starter Set and the Basic Rules PDF.  And after that, not even the Starter Set.  So whatever you get, whatever you purchase or get into from Wizards will not be because they're holding a gun to your head. It will be because they'll be making great products (well, we hope!).

This is, with any luck, the beginning of the end for the whole "endless Splatbook-production-line model" of RPG thinking which only served to create an ever-shrinking mass of aging fanatics while alienating everyone else who didn't want to have to buy every single book.

Making Basic D&D the core D&D rules means that kids will be able to get into the game first, and then become customers of those adventures, expansions, settings or materials that they find exciting.  It will serve the "amateur" gamer rather than the hardcore drooling fan, and that's a good thing.

So its time now to give Wizards its due.  And to give the Pundit his due, particularly all the naysayers and those who made certain claims about me in the last few days.  I win again.

And this time, so does every other D&D fan.

RPGPundit

A - fuckin - men to that.