Quote from: RPGPundit;539751Yes, but that Satanic Panic is also something that forged an entire generation of gamers who got into in defiance of their parents, and made D&D edgy in a way it never would have been otherwise.

I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again: a big part of the problem with D&D these days is that it used to be moms would get worried if they found out their kids were playing D&D because they'd be scared they'd become satanists, which was cool.
Today, they get worried if they find out their kids are playing D&D because they get scared they'll be 30 year old virgins who'll still live in their basement. This is not cool.

It would be far better for the hobby if playing it was an activity tinged with adolescent rebellion, than an activity tinged with the stink of being a social retard.

As for how this could be caught back, I really don't think it can.  Not only would D&D have to tap into something controversial and relevant to it but it would have to also be something that would run counter to the last generation or so of its history as a game that "for nerds".

RPGPundit

Or, it's better to like AC/DC or Motorhead than Rush or King Crimson.

JG

I dunno. I keep hearing about how Nerds are actually Cool these days. Maybe we're suffering a generational gap, thinking how badly nerds were treated when we were youngin's.

Putting on my futurist hat: We may be seeing the first wave of a true paradigm shift. Right now we see a blending of the old attitudes about fragile intellectuals (nerds), and the 'reclaiming' of the derogatory term for such individuals.  As we move forward to increasingly tech based society, the use of the derogatory term, or the insulting origin, may be shed.  In two or three generations it will be the chess club members who date the cheerleaders, and the football players who are mocked in the halls.


Or, you know, not.

I think it's telling that The Big Bang Theory's shift in tone from celebrating geek culture to mocking it has paralleled its rise in popularity outside its original demographic.

Quote from: James Gillen;539836Or, it's better to like AC/DC or Motorhead than Rush or King Crimson.

JG

You have that backwards.  It is best in life to like Rush and AC/DC.

Quote from: Spike;539901I dunno. I keep hearing about how Nerds are actually Cool these days. Maybe we're suffering a generational gap, thinking how badly nerds were treated when we were youngin's.

Putting on my futurist hat: We may be seeing the first wave of a true paradigm shift. Right now we see a blending of the old attitudes about fragile intellectuals (nerds), and the 'reclaiming' of the derogatory term for such individuals.  As we move forward to increasingly tech based society, the use of the derogatory term, or the insulting origin, may be shed.  In two or three generations it will be the chess club members who date the cheerleaders, and the football players who are mocked in the halls.


Or, you know, not.

I challenge your assertions:

Farmville's a game, right?

Arguably not.  If you take Costikyan's "A game is a series of meaningful choices in pursuit of a goal" definition then no, Farmville's not a game.  Whatever choices you make are not meaningful because they don't make any difference to the outcome.  There's no goal, either, beyond possibly having a pretty farm.

It's a pastime.

Quote from: James Gillen;540159Farmville's a game, right?

Quote from: daniel_ream;540268Arguably not.  If you take Costikyan's "A game is a series of meaningful choices in pursuit of a goal" definition then no, Farmville's not a game.  Whatever choices you make are not meaningful because they don't make any difference to the outcome.  There's no goal, either, beyond possibly having a pretty farm.

Even the Maxis folks have always said SimCity and its descendants are not 'games', but rather 'toys'.  Farmville and its ilk are unarguably offshoots of SimCity.

Regardless, the point was that people are latching onto 'geek chic' without actually indulging in the culture at all, which is not surprising.

Joss Whedon, Vin Diesel, Wil Wheaton, Stephen Colbert and Mike Myers?  Yeah, they have talked rather extensively about their RPG pasts, with no hesitation.

But these two?


Publicity stunt.  I am willing to be convinced that Jessie McCarthy or Lauren Graham up there has done more than posed with a box, but I am sceptical.

I am guessing that counter to Spike's claims, it won't be the Chess Club Captain dating the cheerleaders, it will still be the Captain of the Football team.  They will just claim to have played chess as a kid or something.

Quote from: StormBringer;540273Mike Myers

Oh, Great Scott, that reminds me.  More than a decade ago, just before Myers became really big and famous, he was getting interviewed on YTV for their podunk music video show (note to our American friends: YTV at the time was a tween/adolescent-aimed cable-only network; think the Disney channel except with a budget of about $12.47.  A year.)  The interview was ludicrously beneath Myer's station even at the time, but he's really, really big on supporting Canada and Canadian media.

Well, the ditzy host asks the obvious question: where do you get your character ideas from?  He starts into the answer (they're largely personas he created while playing RPGs; "Lo-thar of the Hill People" is actually one of his old D&D characters) with "well, in high school I was one of the kids who played Dungeons & Dragons..."

The ditzy host, not realizing that he's being serious about this, laughs and says "Oh no, you were one of those!"

Myers shut down.  Right there.  You could see his face just go blank for a second, then the jester mask went on as he ruthlessly mocked her for the next five minutes, playing the worst, over-the-top wheezy nerd stereotype you can imagine until the host gives up and ends the interview.  The show was cancelled a month later and rebooted with a new host.

Myers not only played D&D in high school, he also seems to be a bit sensitive about it and isn't above using his fame to humiliate people who try to make fun of him for it.

Go, Mike.

that story is filled with the story of my ambivilence towards Mr. Myers.  He literally seems equal parts smug arrogant asshole and genuine dude who cares.

Equal parts. I literally cannot (I'm gonna keep flogging the SHIT out of 'Literally'...) go a single spate of Mike Myers news without hearing both something cool (or awesome) that happens to be relatively (well, literally) proportional to some dickbag move he also does.

His movies are the same to me.  Literally (thought I was joking about that flogging thing?  Baby, I'm literally typing the word 'literally' with a effin' cat o' nine tails!), half the jokes are sweet dingers that come at you from now where. The other half are cornball hamming shit that wouldn't pass muster at a kindergarten talent show.

Literally.

Quote from: daniel_ream;540309Oh, Great Scott, that reminds me.  More than a decade ago, just before Myers became really big and famous, he was getting interviewed on YTV for their podunk music video show (note to our American friends: YTV at the time was a tween/adolescent-aimed cable-only network; think the Disney channel except with a budget of about $12.47.  A year.)  The interview was ludicrously beneath Myer's station even at the time, but he's really, really big on supporting Canada and Canadian media.

Well, the ditzy host asks the obvious question: where do you get your character ideas from?  He starts into the answer (they're largely personas he created while playing RPGs; "Lo-thar of the Hill People" is actually one of his old D&D characters) with "well, in high school I was one of the kids who played Dungeons & Dragons..."

The ditzy host, not realizing that he's being serious about this, laughs and says "Oh no, you were one of those!"

Myers shut down.  Right there.  You could see his face just go blank for a second, then the jester mask went on as he ruthlessly mocked her for the next five minutes, playing the worst, over-the-top wheezy nerd stereotype you can imagine until the host gives up and ends the interview.  The show was cancelled a month later and rebooted with a new host.

Myers not only played D&D in high school, he also seems to be a bit sensitive about it and isn't above using his fame to humiliate people who try to make fun of him for it.

Go, Mike.

That's awesome.

Vin Diesel also does not put up with people's shit.  Not one bit.  Even late night talk show hosts do not fuck with his shit.

Well, ok, they probably aren't stupid enough to make fun of him for it.    Still, I can't see Jessie McCarthy bringing that up in an interview.

Bonus:  Vin agrees with Kyle Aaron in the Kimmel clip; must have snacks.

It's nice to see people not embarrassed about their past, even famous ones. But seriously Mike and Vin are human and they were teenagers and put their pants on one leg at a time.  They shouldn't have to defend this or playing rpg's regardless.

Quote from: daniel_ream;540309Oh, Great Scott, that reminds me.  More than a decade ago, just before Myers became really big and famous, he was getting interviewed on YTV for their podunk music video show (note to our American friends: YTV at the time was a tween/adolescent-aimed cable-only network; think the Disney channel except with a budget of about $12.47.  A year.)  The interview was ludicrously beneath Myer's station even at the time, but he's really, really big on supporting Canada and Canadian media.

Well, the ditzy host asks the obvious question: where do you get your character ideas from?  He starts into the answer (they're largely personas he created while playing RPGs; "Lo-thar of the Hill People" is actually one of his old D&D characters) with "well, in high school I was one of the kids who played Dungeons & Dragons..."

The ditzy host, not realizing that he's being serious about this, laughs and says "Oh no, you were one of those!"

Myers shut down.  Right there.  You could see his face just go blank for a second, then the jester mask went on as he ruthlessly mocked her for the next five minutes, playing the worst, over-the-top wheezy nerd stereotype you can imagine until the host gives up and ends the interview.  The show was cancelled a month later and rebooted with a new host.

That's what I call public service.

JG

Quote from: Marleycat;540316It's nice to see people not embarrassed about their past, even famous ones. But seriously Mike and Vin are human and they were teenagers and put their pants on one leg at a time.  They shouldn't have to defend this or playing rpg's regardless.

More importantly, they are quite comfortable with it.

As geek chic reaches the masses, I think we will see a good deal more admissions to the safer activities; D&D, Star Trek fandom, playing Commodore 64 games...  Creative types more than most for the reputation boost, if it perhaps gets that far.  But genuine nerd/geeks?  I dig a bunch of ThinkGeek's stuff as much as the next geek, but let's face it, they are very nearly bordering on being the Hot Topic of the nerd world.

I would like to see some geek culture a bit closer to the mainstream.  I just think that the mainstream will co-opt most of it, as what happens with anything else.  Although, the thought of even more geek poseurs does amuse me...