Yeah. I haven't seen a game store being kept alive by D&D specifically for decades now.

Quote from: CRKrueger;427639Nice try on the spin, but as usual when you 4venge, completely and purposely incorrect.

Really? 'Cause I would have said it was the bitter dumping on 4e that was the stretch...

Let's see...WotC sells it's D&D rules and content two ways. One is via printed materials and the other is via a DDI subscription. As far as I know, all the rules and much of the other content that appears in the printed materials is duplicated online.

Thus if all you want are rules and not fluff about, oh, Torog and the Underdark, you don't have to purchase any printed materials. This is particularly true for player content.

Paizo only sells its Pathfinder content via printed material. Every Paizo purchase contributes to its book sales figures.  

Thus if all you're doing is comparing sales of printed materials, you're comparing apples and oranges (and any professional versus high school team analog you dream up will fall flat).

If you think about it, WotC has made their printed books obsolete and it's competitors still struggle to catch up to them...

Seanchai

The analogy that comes to mind, maybe, is if a major league baseball team is being matched in ticket sales by its former AAA affiliate - i.e. if the major is still doing better business with broadcast rights, merchandising, etc. etc., eclipsing the ticket sales it's still weird that the AAA team is doing better on tickets.

Quote from: Cole;427665The analogy that comes to mind, maybe, is if a major league baseball team is being matched in ticket sales by its former AAA affiliate - i.e. if the major is still doing better business with broadcast rights, merchandising, etc. etc., eclipsing the ticket sales it's still weird that the AAA team is doing better on tickets.

And yet that sort of thing happens all the time.

Popular college or even high school teams can have sellout games, but the White Sox are lucky to fill more than a half of the stadium on any given game even the year right after they won the series.

Wonder what proportion of 4E splatbook sales were from individuals playing in official RPGA type games.

Quote from: jgants;427688And yet that sort of thing happens all the time.

Popular college or even high school teams can have sellout games, but the White Sox are lucky to fill more than a half of the stadium on any given game even the year right after they won the series.

It does make a certain amount of sense to me. (Though is the same true of the professional minors - there's a reason I drew that particular comparison.)

Christ, really? People are still ragging on this same old shit? For fuck's sake people we're halfway to 5e and it's the same old "it's not an RPG, it's a boardgame"-y crap. It is what it is. If you don't like it, go play something you do like. My fucking god, you're beating the ground the horse died on. The poor fucker rotted away long ago. I'm not going to put up an edition war style argument here, I'm just saying MOVE THE FUCK ON. Sheesh.

Quote from: Benoist;427655Yeah. I haven't seen a game store being kept alive by D&D specifically for decades now.

I don't think I've EVER seen one. Around here it's always been on back shelves of comic book stores, book stores, hobby stores (models and trains) or game stores that mostly focused on war-games/miniatures/boardgames. I've never seen an RPG store... Or even a store that was mostly about selling RPGs.

Quote from: Seanchai;427663Really? 'Cause I would have said it was the bitter dumping on 4e that was the stretch...

Let's see...WotC sells it's D&D rules and content two ways. One is via printed materials and the other is via a DDI subscription. As far as I know, all the rules and much of the other content that appears in the printed materials is duplicated online.

Thus if all you want are rules and not fluff about, oh, Torog and the Underdark, you don't have to purchase any printed materials. This is particularly true for player content.

Paizo only sells its Pathfinder content via printed material. Every Paizo purchase contributes to its book sales figures.  

Thus if all you're doing is comparing sales of printed materials, you're comparing apples and oranges (and any professional versus high school team analog you dream up will fall flat).

If you think about it, WotC has made their printed books obsolete and it's competitors still struggle to catch up to them...

Seanchai

Actually... you're wrong.  Pathfinder sells digital/PDF's of all their material (and for the main rulebooks it's substantially cheaper) as well as print products... in fact they even sell subscriptions where you can get both the PDF and print versions of their material... they also have an official CB under Hero Lab and a free SRD... so why haven't their printed books become obsolete?

Quote from: IMLegend;427708Christ, really? People are still ragging on this same old shit? For fuck's sake people we're halfway to 5e and it's the same old "it's not an RPG, it's a boardgame"-y crap. It is what it is. If you don't like it, go play something you do like. My fucking god, you're beating the ground the horse died on. The poor fucker rotted away long ago. I'm not going to put up an edition war style argument here, I'm just saying MOVE THE FUCK ON. Sheesh.

See, I'm not beating a dead horse, per se. I have little emotion about this aside from bemusement at what happened to the game.

I'm pretty much moved on, and am actually saying that I'd like to move on to 5th edition *faster*.  The level of annoyance that prompted this thread is relatively new for me. Like I said I gave it a shot. I tried to like it.

It's been a slow downhill ride from there. I figured this thread was more of a post mortem (How did this horse die?) than a place to whine and moan about the kids on my lawn. Ce la internettes.

Quote from: Monster Manuel;427749See, I'm not beating a dead horse, per se. I have little emotion about this aside from bemusement at what happened to the game.

I'm pretty much moved on, and am actually saying that I'd like to move on to 5th edition *faster*.  The level of annoyance that prompted this thread is relatively new for me. Like I said I gave it a shot. I tried to like it.

It's been a slow downhill ride from there. I figured this thread was more of a post mortem (How did this horse die?) than a place to whine and moan about the kids on my lawn. Ce la internettes.

Exactly, it's already failed, it really is time for the postmortem, and prognostication on whether 5e will be more like Essentials, a throwback to      4e, or to D&D.

Quote from: imaro;427742Actually... you're wrong.  Pathfinder sells digital/PDF's of all their material (and for the main rulebooks it's substantially cheaper) as well as print products...

A PDF isn't the same. It's basically a copy of the book.

Quote from: imaro;427742...they also have an official CB under Hero Lab...

They do?

Quote from: imaro;427742...so why haven't their printed books become obsolete?

Because they not selling they content of their game outside their books.

Seanchai

Quote from: IMLegend;427708Christ, really? People are still ragging on this same old shit? For fuck's sake people we're halfway to 5e and it's the same old "it's not an RPG, it's a boardgame"-y crap. It is what it is. If you don't like it, go play something you do like. My fucking god, you're beating the ground the horse died on. The poor fucker rotted away long ago. I'm not going to put up an edition war style argument here, I'm just saying MOVE THE FUCK ON. Sheesh.

I agree. I mean, "Transformer III" is almost Among Us and there are still people with this Shakespeare fetish. Blah...

Quote from: Seanchai;427754A PDF isn't the same. It's basically a copy of the book.

Sooo, they're selling you an electronic version of their rules... that is searchable and book markeable... sounds pretty similar to DDI's compendium... I mean outside of the fact that they are letting you own as opposed to rent... but yeah, I guess it's not the same and should probably be hurting their sales of print product even more.

Quote from: Seanchai;427754They do?

Yes... google is your friend.

Quote from: Seanchai;427754Because they not selling they content of their game outside their books.

Seanchai

No, they're actually giving it away for free... PFSRD and selling much cheaper electronic copies ($10 each)... so again, why haven't their printed books become obsolete?

Quote from: Monster Manuel;427361The original red box hit things pretty well, but I'd have liked a greater sense of scope. Rules light, I guess, but just tons and tons of options for classes, races, etc. AD&D/D&D3 style Races and Classes, but a simpler game. Something like a basic Pathfinder, really.

So...Castles & Crusades?