DCCRPG going Woke

HappyDaze · November 11, 2021, 04:34:23 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:29:37 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on November 11, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
It really depends upon how they re-write the sentences. With a little effort it isn't all that hard to remove he/she without using They. .

The question is : Why should anyone HAVE TO do even that "little effort"?
Why is that the question? I don't think anyone believes that Goodman games is doing this against their will. They want to do this, and that's all that really matters. Now, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, but asking why they have to do this is really the wrong question.

That MIGHT be true of Gooperson games (I doubt it since when they start virtue signaling is to hide something). But the bigger picture necesitates that question answered.

So far the only "answers" provided have been "Muh Inclusivity!" and "Muh Representashun!". But never has it been proven that not doing so really stops anyone from joining a hobby.

If those "arguments" held any water you'd find that not a single straight white male would enjoy Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Shang Chi (the original good comics not the BS new ones or the movie), etc.

The same is true of TTRPGs, why is it that in HispanoAmerica the most popular game is vanilla D&D and not something like Maztica?

That is the underlying question that needs to be answered and so far it hasn't been.

Feel free to disagree, I can't force you to be right and I lack the time/interest to try and convince you of anything.

You're (general you, for many in the thread) the ones needing it answered. They (Goodman and others making such changes) obviously don't feel that need. This is then about you, not them.

GeekyBugle · November 11, 2021, 04:43:29 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:34:23 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:29:37 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on November 11, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
It really depends upon how they re-write the sentences. With a little effort it isn't all that hard to remove he/she without using They. .

The question is : Why should anyone HAVE TO do even that "little effort"?
Why is that the question? I don't think anyone believes that Goodman games is doing this against their will. They want to do this, and that's all that really matters. Now, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, but asking why they have to do this is really the wrong question.

That MIGHT be true of Gooperson games (I doubt it since when they start virtue signaling is to hide something). But the bigger picture necesitates that question answered.

So far the only "answers" provided have been "Muh Inclusivity!" and "Muh Representashun!". But never has it been proven that not doing so really stops anyone from joining a hobby.

If those "arguments" held any water you'd find that not a single straight white male would enjoy Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Shang Chi (the original good comics not the BS new ones or the movie), etc.

The same is true of TTRPGs, why is it that in HispanoAmerica the most popular game is vanilla D&D and not something like Maztica?

That is the underlying question that needs to be answered and so far it hasn't been.

Feel free to disagree, I can't force you to be right and I lack the time/interest to try and convince you of anything.
You're (general you, for many in the thread) the ones needing it answered. They (Goodman and others making such changes) obviously don't feel that need. This is then about you, not them.

Actually this is about those demanding such changes but you can keep pretending you don't know that.

HappyDaze · November 11, 2021, 04:59:00 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:34:23 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:29:37 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on November 11, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
It really depends upon how they re-write the sentences. With a little effort it isn't all that hard to remove he/she without using They. .

The question is : Why should anyone HAVE TO do even that "little effort"?
Why is that the question? I don't think anyone believes that Goodman games is doing this against their will. They want to do this, and that's all that really matters. Now, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, but asking why they have to do this is really the wrong question.

That MIGHT be true of Gooperson games (I doubt it since when they start virtue signaling is to hide something). But the bigger picture necesitates that question answered.

So far the only "answers" provided have been "Muh Inclusivity!" and "Muh Representashun!". But never has it been proven that not doing so really stops anyone from joining a hobby.

If those "arguments" held any water you'd find that not a single straight white male would enjoy Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Shang Chi (the original good comics not the BS new ones or the movie), etc.

The same is true of TTRPGs, why is it that in HispanoAmerica the most popular game is vanilla D&D and not something like Maztica?

That is the underlying question that needs to be answered and so far it hasn't been.

Feel free to disagree, I can't force you to be right and I lack the time/interest to try and convince you of anything.
You're (general you, for many in the thread) the ones needing it answered. They (Goodman and others making such changes) obviously don't feel that need. This is then about you, not them.

Actually this is about those demanding such changes but you can keep pretending you don't know that.

What I see here are many demanding others don't make such changes, or at the least denouncing those that do make such choices. If you're going to complain when someone picks a side you don't agree with, you need to realize that you've contributed to hyping up the issue too by virtue/vice-signaling of your own. Try live and let live.

GeekyBugle · November 11, 2021, 05:01:22 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:59:00 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:34:23 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:29:37 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on November 11, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
It really depends upon how they re-write the sentences. With a little effort it isn't all that hard to remove he/she without using They. .

The question is : Why should anyone HAVE TO do even that "little effort"?
Why is that the question? I don't think anyone believes that Goodman games is doing this against their will. They want to do this, and that's all that really matters. Now, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, but asking why they have to do this is really the wrong question.

That MIGHT be true of Gooperson games (I doubt it since when they start virtue signaling is to hide something). But the bigger picture necesitates that question answered.

So far the only "answers" provided have been "Muh Inclusivity!" and "Muh Representashun!". But never has it been proven that not doing so really stops anyone from joining a hobby.

If those "arguments" held any water you'd find that not a single straight white male would enjoy Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Shang Chi (the original good comics not the BS new ones or the movie), etc.

The same is true of TTRPGs, why is it that in HispanoAmerica the most popular game is vanilla D&D and not something like Maztica?

That is the underlying question that needs to be answered and so far it hasn't been.

Feel free to disagree, I can't force you to be right and I lack the time/interest to try and convince you of anything.
You're (general you, for many in the thread) the ones needing it answered. They (Goodman and others making such changes) obviously don't feel that need. This is then about you, not them.

Actually this is about those demanding such changes but you can keep pretending you don't know that.
What I see here are many demanding others don't make such changes, or at the least denouncing those that do make such choices. If you're going to complain when someone picks a side you don't agree with, you need to realize that you've contributed to hyping up the issue too by virtue/vice-signaling of your own. Try live and let live.

Saying "I'm not giving my money to people that do X" =/= Demanding they don't do X.

Feel free to disagree, I can't force you to be right and I lack the time/interest to try and convince you of anything.

HappyDaze · November 11, 2021, 05:04:39 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:59:00 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:34:23 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:29:37 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on November 11, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
It really depends upon how they re-write the sentences. With a little effort it isn't all that hard to remove he/she without using They. .

The question is : Why should anyone HAVE TO do even that "little effort"?
Why is that the question? I don't think anyone believes that Goodman games is doing this against their will. They want to do this, and that's all that really matters. Now, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, but asking why they have to do this is really the wrong question.

That MIGHT be true of Gooperson games (I doubt it since when they start virtue signaling is to hide something). But the bigger picture necesitates that question answered.

So far the only "answers" provided have been "Muh Inclusivity!" and "Muh Representashun!". But never has it been proven that not doing so really stops anyone from joining a hobby.

If those "arguments" held any water you'd find that not a single straight white male would enjoy Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Shang Chi (the original good comics not the BS new ones or the movie), etc.

The same is true of TTRPGs, why is it that in HispanoAmerica the most popular game is vanilla D&D and not something like Maztica?

That is the underlying question that needs to be answered and so far it hasn't been.

Feel free to disagree, I can't force you to be right and I lack the time/interest to try and convince you of anything.
You're (general you, for many in the thread) the ones needing it answered. They (Goodman and others making such changes) obviously don't feel that need. This is then about you, not them.

Actually this is about those demanding such changes but you can keep pretending you don't know that.
What I see here are many demanding others don't make such changes, or at the least denouncing those that do make such choices. If you're going to complain when someone picks a side you don't agree with, you need to realize that you've contributed to hyping up the issue too by virtue/vice-signaling of your own. Try live and let live.

Saying "I'm not giving my money to people that do X" =/= Demanding they don't do X.

Feel free to disagree, I can't force you to be right and I lack the time/interest to try and convince you of anything.

It is signaling though, and for what purpose? Are you trying to influence others to do the same? If so, for what purpose? Is it to influence the people that you no longer buy from?

GeekyBugle · November 11, 2021, 05:12:45 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 05:04:39 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 05:01:22 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:59:00 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:34:23 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:29:37 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on November 11, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
It really depends upon how they re-write the sentences. With a little effort it isn't all that hard to remove he/she without using They. .

The question is : Why should anyone HAVE TO do even that "little effort"?
Why is that the question? I don't think anyone believes that Goodman games is doing this against their will. They want to do this, and that's all that really matters. Now, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, but asking why they have to do this is really the wrong question.

That MIGHT be true of Gooperson games (I doubt it since when they start virtue signaling is to hide something). But the bigger picture necesitates that question answered.

So far the only "answers" provided have been "Muh Inclusivity!" and "Muh Representashun!". But never has it been proven that not doing so really stops anyone from joining a hobby.

If those "arguments" held any water you'd find that not a single straight white male would enjoy Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Shang Chi (the original good comics not the BS new ones or the movie), etc.

The same is true of TTRPGs, why is it that in HispanoAmerica the most popular game is vanilla D&D and not something like Maztica?

That is the underlying question that needs to be answered and so far it hasn't been.

Feel free to disagree, I can't force you to be right and I lack the time/interest to try and convince you of anything.
You're (general you, for many in the thread) the ones needing it answered. They (Goodman and others making such changes) obviously don't feel that need. This is then about you, not them.

Actually this is about those demanding such changes but you can keep pretending you don't know that.
What I see here are many demanding others don't make such changes, or at the least denouncing those that do make such choices. If you're going to complain when someone picks a side you don't agree with, you need to realize that you've contributed to hyping up the issue too by virtue/vice-signaling of your own. Try live and let live.

Saying "I'm not giving my money to people that do X" =/= Demanding they don't do X.

Feel free to disagree, I can't force you to be right and I lack the time/interest to try and convince you of anything.
It is signaling though, and for what purpose? Are you trying to influence others to do the same? If so, for what purpose? Is it to influence the people that you no longer buy from?

That's a very dishonest question.

Have I ever said if they backtrack I'll give them money?
Have I ever tried to organize a writting campaign to the companies/shops?

You're confalting us with the side that does those things. And still won't give them any money after they bend the knee.

The woke hate me, they think my mixed race marriage shouldn't exist, they think I should only enjoy stuff made by people that look like me.

So, once a company is corroborated as woke, why would I want them to stop being openly woke?

They are saving me money that won't go to whatever hate promoting cause/movement they care to fund.

1989 · November 11, 2021, 05:17:25 PM

Here are some money quotes from the DCC con guidelines: https://goodman-games.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/DCO-Policies.pdf

"This policy was based on the existing XOXO Community Code of Conduct, which is itself based on resources provided by Geek Feminism, and borrows heavily from similar open source policies authored by JSConf AU and Django."

>> Feminism

"Offensive comments related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, neurotype, physical appearance, body, age, race, ethnicity, nationality, language, or religion"

>> Neurotype? WTF

"Deliberate use of incorrect name or pronouns, including misgendering

"Respect player pronouns and character pronouns; routinely reaffirm these throughout play and at the start of each session"

>> Pronouns. Jordan Peterson, you are not welcome here!

"Respect player autonomy and practice regular check-ins to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development"

>> Regular check-ins to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development. Wow. DCC is so old school.

DCC is a big joke!

Shasarak · November 11, 2021, 05:20:28 PM

Quote from: Myrdin Potter on November 11, 2021, 09:20:37 AM
Both of my daughters play RPG and they both care about use of he exclusively. They understand that the older, accepted usage of he was meant to be gender neutral, but they don't agree that it is.

The local store I play in is about 30-40% younger women players.

It is quaint that people here are outraged about the change to they/them while insisting that people should not be upset about he/his.

Double quaint that they expect Goodman Games to not want to advertise that they understand and have adjusted.

Just out of interest, both of your daughters are going to buy copies of the new DCC RPG book, right?

I mean it was re written especially for them so the least they could do is to buy a copy each.

HappyDaze · November 11, 2021, 05:22:22 PM

Quote from: 1989 on November 11, 2021, 05:17:25 PM
Here are some money quotes from the DCC con guidelines: https://goodman-games.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/DCO-Policies.pdf

"This policy was based on the existing XOXO Community Code of Conduct, which is itself based on resources provided by Geek Feminism, and borrows heavily from similar open source policies authored by JSConf AU and Django."

>> Feminism

"Offensive comments related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, neurotype, physical appearance, body, age, race, ethnicity, nationality, language, or religion"

>> Neurotype? WTF

"Deliberate use of incorrect name or pronouns, including misgendering

"Respect player pronouns and character pronouns; routinely reaffirm these throughout play and at the start of each session"

>> Pronouns. Jordan Peterson, you are not welcome here!

"Respect player autonomy and practice regular check-ins to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development"

>> Regular check-ins to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development. Wow. DCC is so old school. What a joke.

DCC is a big joke!

Does calling/emailing/texting your players between sessions and accepting feedback satisfy "regular check-ins" as they suggest? If so, I've been doing that for decades.

GeekyBugle · November 11, 2021, 05:33:24 PM

Quote from: 1989 on November 11, 2021, 05:17:25 PM
Here are some money quotes from the DCC con guidelines: https://goodman-games.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/DCO-Policies.pdf

"This policy was based on the existing XOXO Community Code of Conduct, which is itself based on resources provided by Geek Feminism, and borrows heavily from similar open source policies authored by JSConf AU and Django."

>> Feminism

"Offensive comments related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, neurotype, physical appearance, body, age, race, ethnicity, nationality, language, or religion"

>> Neurotype? WTF

"Deliberate use of incorrect name or pronouns, including misgendering

"Respect player pronouns and character pronouns; routinely reaffirm these throughout play and at the start of each session"

>> Pronouns. Jordan Peterson, you are not welcome here!

"Respect player autonomy and practice regular check-ins to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development"

>> Regular check-ins to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development. Wow. DCC is so old school.

DCC is a big joke!

I for one appreciate they going full woke in such a public fashion, saves me money. Never buying anything from them again and Occule should move them to Red.

dkabq · November 11, 2021, 05:36:41 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: 1989 on November 11, 2021, 05:17:25 PM
Here are some money quotes from the DCC con guidelines: https://goodman-games.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/DCO-Policies.pdf

"This policy was based on the existing XOXO Community Code of Conduct, which is itself based on resources provided by Geek Feminism, and borrows heavily from similar open source policies authored by JSConf AU and Django."

>> Feminism

"Offensive comments related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, neurotype, physical appearance, body, age, race, ethnicity, nationality, language, or religion"

>> Neurotype? WTF

"Deliberate use of incorrect name or pronouns, including misgendering

"Respect player pronouns and character pronouns; routinely reaffirm these throughout play and at the start of each session"

>> Pronouns. Jordan Peterson, you are not welcome here!

"Respect player autonomy and practice regular check-ins to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development"

>> Regular check-ins to affirm enthusiastic agreement of game development. Wow. DCC is so old school. What a joke.

DCC is a big joke!
Does calling/emailing/texting your players between sessions and accepting feedback satisfy "regular check-ins" as they suggest? If so, I've been doing that for decades.

I do that too. Sometimes they have enthusiastic agreement with respect to how the game is developing. Other times (fortunately rarely) they might not be so happy (like when a PC meets their demise). Fuck beans, we were doing that back in the 70s.

Of course, I have a carefully curated group of players. I cannot even begin to imagine what it would be like to play with a bunch of randos at a con.

Rob Necronomicon · November 11, 2021, 05:47:30 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:59:00 PM
Try live and let live.

Yeah, be great if you could...

Fantacide · November 11, 2021, 06:07:49 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:29:37 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on November 11, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
It really depends upon how they re-write the sentences. With a little effort it isn't all that hard to remove he/she without using They. .

The question is : Why should anyone HAVE TO do even that "little effort"?
Why is that the question? I don't think anyone believes that Goodman games is doing this against their will. They want to do this, and that's all that really matters. Now, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, but asking why they have to do this is really the wrong question.

That MIGHT be true of Gooperson games (I doubt it since when they start virtue signaling is to hide something). But the bigger picture necesitates that question answered.

So far the only "answers" provided have been "Muh Inclusivity!" and "Muh Representashun!". But never has it been proven that not doing so really stops anyone from joining a hobby.

If those "arguments" held any water you'd find that not a single straight white male would enjoy Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Shang Chi (the original good comics not the BS new ones or the movie), etc.

The same is true of TTRPGs, why is it that in HispanoAmerica the most popular game is vanilla D&D and not something like Maztica?

That is the underlying question that needs to be answered and so far it hasn't been.

Feel free to disagree, I can't force you to be right and I lack the time/interest to try and convince you of anything.

They aren't trying to hide anything. Go look at their Con guidelines and you'll see how far gone they are.

Mishihari · November 11, 2021, 06:12:56 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:59:00 PM
What I see here are many demanding others don't make such changes, or at the least denouncing those that do make such choices. If you're going to complain when someone picks a side you don't agree with, you need to realize that you've contributed to hyping up the issue too by virtue/vice-signaling of your own. Try live and let live.

Oh the irony! Or is it projection? Whatever

GeekyBugle · November 11, 2021, 06:18:08 PM

Quote from: Fantacide on November 11, 2021, 06:07:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:29:37 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on November 11, 2021, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 11, 2021, 04:10:48 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on November 11, 2021, 04:09:14 PM
It really depends upon how they re-write the sentences. With a little effort it isn't all that hard to remove he/she without using They. .

The question is : Why should anyone HAVE TO do even that "little effort"?
Why is that the question? I don't think anyone believes that Goodman games is doing this against their will. They want to do this, and that's all that really matters. Now, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it, but asking why they have to do this is really the wrong question.

That MIGHT be true of Gooperson games (I doubt it since when they start virtue signaling is to hide something). But the bigger picture necesitates that question answered.

So far the only "answers" provided have been "Muh Inclusivity!" and "Muh Representashun!". But never has it been proven that not doing so really stops anyone from joining a hobby.

If those "arguments" held any water you'd find that not a single straight white male would enjoy Wonder Woman, Black Panther, Shang Chi (the original good comics not the BS new ones or the movie), etc.

The same is true of TTRPGs, why is it that in HispanoAmerica the most popular game is vanilla D&D and not something like Maztica?

That is the underlying question that needs to be answered and so far it hasn't been.

Feel free to disagree, I can't force you to be right and I lack the time/interest to try and convince you of anything.

They aren't trying to hide anything. Go look at their Con guidelines and you'll see how far gone they are.

What I meant is : "The harder they virtue signal the more squeletons in their closet"

They are trying to hide them being sex pests, racists, bigots, etc.

or all of the above