So when the whole woke trend gets old, because it will. What are these hundreds of companies going to do? File bankruptcy, come back as a different brand? Because I doubt going unwoke will be a thing.

I don't see this as a Woke issue. People have been arguing about this for decades, long before Woke. I switched to "they" for indeterminate gender some time ago, and found it works perfectly fine. Less cumbersome than "he or she." Examples:

If anyone has a problem with the new rules, they can leave a comment below.
The candidate will need to submit their resume to the proper email address.
When a character drops below zero hit points, they fall immediately unconscious.

All of those sound natural to me. I agree that sometimes there is a confusion between singular or plural, but context usually makes it clear.

Quote from: jhkim on November 10, 2021, 12:13:20 PM
What pronoun pattern did DCCRPG use previously, out of curiousity? Did it "he or she" for generic people like original AD&D? Or something else?

A search of the DCC rule book pdf finds:
2728 instances of "he"
5 instances of "she"
802 instances of "they"

All of the 5 "she" refer to specific females (e.g., p.394: "when a young queen matures... she brings with her...").

<snark>
Of course that begs the question of whether referring to an ant as female is transphobic.
<\snark>

Quote from: Zalman on November 10, 2021, 03:51:40 PM
Singular "they" is for an indeterminate person, not for a specific person of indeterminate gender. "When a child cries, I hug them" is right, "When the child cries, I hug them" is, traditionally, broken grammar.

P.S. got a link for that Oxford assertion?

Here's an OED link.

https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

In general usage, it seems to me that singular "they" is used regardless of gender rather than a narrowly defined case. It can be used for a specific person even of known male or female gender. For example, Shakespeare's A Comedy of Errors, Act IV, Scene 3:

There's not a man I meet but doth salute me
As if I were their well-acquainted friend

In general, English isn't closely prescribed - and usage will vary, especially in conversation and non-formal writing like fiction and RPGs. If I picture an oath in some fantasy RPG, it's less likely:

"I have no idea what the entity is that broke in, but whatever he, she, or it is - we will stop him, her, or it."

vs

"I have no idea what the entity is that broke in, but whatever they are - we will stop them."

Quote from: jhkim on November 10, 2021, 04:36:33 PM

Quote from: Zalman on November 10, 2021, 03:51:40 PM
Singular "they" is for an indeterminate person, not for a specific person of indeterminate gender. "When a child cries, I hug them" is right, "When the child cries, I hug them" is, traditionally, broken grammar.

P.S. got a link for that Oxford assertion?

Here's an OED link.

https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

In general usage, it seems to me that singular "they" is used regardless of gender rather than a narrowly defined case. It can be used for a specific person even of known male or female gender. For example, Shakespeare's A Comedy of Errors, Act IV, Scene 3:

There's not a man I meet but doth salute me
As if I were their well-acquainted friend

In general, English isn't closely prescribed - and usage will vary, especially in conversation and non-formal writing like fiction and RPGs. If I picture an oath in some fantasy RPG, it's less likely:

"I have no idea what the entity is that broke in, but whatever he, she, or it is - we will stop him, her, or it."

vs

"I have no idea what the entity is that broke in, but whatever they are - we will stop them."

Bolding mine

Translated to modern english or to a plain english if you will:

All men I encounter salute me
As if we were old friends

That's not an example of singular they.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 10, 2021, 04:47:57 PM
That's not an example of singular they.

Here are some more recent literary examples:

"Who is in love with her? Who makes you their confidant?" — Jane Austen, in Emma (1815)

"A person can't help their birth." — Rosalind, in William Makepeace Thackeray, Vanity Fair (1848)

"But how can you talk with a person if they always say the same thing?" ― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass (1871)

"Nobody in their senses would give sixpence on the strength of a promissory note of the kind." — Lord Landsdowne in The Liberal Magazine (1914)

"She kept her head and kicked her shoes off, as everybody ought to do who falls into deep water in their clothes." — C.S. Lewis, in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (1952)

Quote from: jhkim on November 10, 2021, 05:05:33 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 10, 2021, 04:47:57 PM
That's not an example of singular they.

Here are some more recent literary examples:

"Who is in love with her? Who makes you their confidant?" — Jane Austen, in Emma (1815)

"A person can't help their birth." — Rosalind, in William Makepeace Thackeray, Vanity Fair (1848)

"But how can you talk with a person if they always say the same thing?" ― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass (1871)

"Nobody in their senses would give sixpence on the strength of a promissory note of the kind." — Lord Landsdowne in The Liberal Magazine (1914)

"She kept her head and kicked her shoes off, as everybody ought to do who falls into deep water in their clothes." — C.S. Lewis, in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (1952)

I bet it was time traveling wokesters that are trying to destroy the timeline!

Man.....  I mean They....  Say it ain't so!!!

DCC has always had the aura of being gonzo and hardcore.  Now "They" are giving in to the sensitive sissy woke bullshit too?

Man....  I mean They....

Another "tempest in a teapot". It's not going to fundamentally change how the game works.

I find throwing a fit against "wokeness" in response to what many of you decry as weak "cuck" "bend the knee" behavior as hilarious. So, they (see what I did there?) need to "man up" and push back against the libs, but instead they pushed back against you and decided "they" is an ok compromise. Now you are taking your ball and going home.

The hand-wringing over everything = racism, censorship is ok, and anyone who disagrees with me = nazi child molester -- has all been troubling to deal with. It seems like the outrage brigade rages as a default social stance. You wanna do that too?

Maybe the anti-woke crowd should stop hand-wringing over every change that even stinks of "wokeness", you know, to demonstrate your higher emotional maturity?

Quote from: jhkim on November 10, 2021, 05:05:33 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 10, 2021, 04:47:57 PM
That's not an example of singular they.

Here are some more recent literary examples:

"Who is in love with her? Who makes you their confidant?" — Jane Austen, in Emma (1815)

"A person can't help their birth." — Rosalind, in William Makepeace Thackeray, Vanity Fair (1848)

"But how can you talk with a person if they always say the same thing?" ― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass (1871)

"Nobody in their senses would give sixpence on the strength of a promissory note of the kind." — Lord Landsdowne in The Liberal Magazine (1914)

"She kept her head and kicked her shoes off, as everybody ought to do who falls into deep water in their clothes." — C.S. Lewis, in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (1952)

And 2 of those start talking about ONE person of known sex and then turn to talking about unknown persons, with 2 talking about person(s) of unknown sex.

Still not an example of you being right my dude.

Quote from: trechriron on November 10, 2021, 05:45:33 PM
Another "tempest in a teapot". It's not going to fundamentally change how the game works.

I find throwing a fit against "wokeness" in response to what many of you decry as weak "cuck" "bend the knee" behavior as hilarious. So, they (see what I did there?) need to "man up" and push back against the libs, but instead they pushed back against you and decided "they" is an ok compromise. Now you are taking your ball and going home.

The hand-wringing over everything = racism, censorship is ok, and anyone who disagrees with me = nazi child molester -- has all been troubling to deal with.

Maybe the anti-woke crowd should stop hand-wringing over every change that even stinks of "wokeness", you know, to demonstrate your higher emotional maturity?

No, it will just change how I choose to spend my money. Because next up is the developers/publisher stating that if I don't follow their cult's dogma they don't want my money.

Quote from: HappyDaze on November 10, 2021, 05:23:14 PM

Quote from: jhkim on November 10, 2021, 05:05:33 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 10, 2021, 04:47:57 PM
That's not an example of singular they.

Here are some more recent literary examples:

"Who is in love with her? Who makes you their confidant?" — Jane Austen, in Emma (1815)

"A person can't help their birth." — Rosalind, in William Makepeace Thackeray, Vanity Fair (1848)

"But how can you talk with a person if they always say the same thing?" ― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass (1871)

"Nobody in their senses would give sixpence on the strength of a promissory note of the kind." — Lord Landsdowne in The Liberal Magazine (1914)

"She kept her head and kicked her shoes off, as everybody ought to do who falls into deep water in their clothes." — C.S. Lewis, in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (1952)

I bet it was time traveling wokesters that are trying to destroy the timeline!

No, just another example of you lacking any reading comprehension.

Man. MAN!

I can't say I'm surprised. I think I was the one who first posted the info about DCC and BLM on the thread that had the original list of woke/non-woke RPG companies.

I did not know how left these guys were.

You know, when you pick up DCC, you see that the style/vibe they are going for is: down in your parent's basement in the 1970s/1980s playing heavy metal music -- metal. METAL!

This really seems deceptive, doesn't it? They are presenting their RPG as having a certain vibe, for a certain audience, and, actually, it's not that at all.

Think about this: Look at the DCC iconic characters -- the barbarian-looking dude, in particular, with the bell-bottoms. Can you imagine that guy saying "they"? What a joke.

DCC is supposed to be hardcore and metal, you know? Not the RPG for snowflakes. It has the funnel -- not for pansies.

But here we are: the creators are such pansies that they bow down to the demands of the feminist establishment.

Make no mistake, that is the only reason it is being done: pandering.

The grammatical argument is just smoke. Look at the intention here. It's the intent that matters, and the intent is clear: bow down to the feminists.

DCC is firmly in the red category now. Hopefully, the OP for that thread will move DCC to that category.

Quote from: jhkim on November 10, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
Does this mean that if I yell "You piece of shit!" at my malfunctioning car, I'm grammatically incorrect?

Cars (and ships, and countries) are traditionally referred to with female pronouns in English.

No one said it had to make sense.

Quote from: 1989 on November 10, 2021, 05:49:41 PM
Man. MAN!

I can't say I'm surprised. I think I was the one who first posted the info about DCC and BLM on the thread that had the original list of woke/non-woke RPG companies.

I did not know how left these guys were.

You know, when you pick up DCC, you see that the style/vibe they are going for is: down in your parent's basement in the 1970s/1980s playing heavy metal music -- metal. METAL!

This really seems deceptive, doesn't it? They are presenting their RPG as having a certain vibe, for a certain audience, and, actually, it's not that at all.

Think about this: Look at the DCC iconic characters -- the barbarian-looking dude, in particular, with the bell-bottoms. Can you imagine that guy saying "they"? What a joke.

DCC is supposed to be hardcore and metal, you know? Not the RPG for snowflakes. It has the funnel -- not for pansies.

But here we are: the creators are such pansies that they bow down to the demands of the feminist establishment.

Make no mistake, that is the only reason it is being done: pandering.

The grammatical argument is just smoke. Look at the intention here. It's the intent that matters, and the intent is clear: bow down to the feminists.

DCC is firmly in the red category now. Hopefully, the OP for that thread will move DCC to that category.

Bolding mine

Agreed and seconded.