This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Author Topic: GM Mentoring  (Read 2358 times)

PencilBoy99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • P
  • Posts: 575
GM Mentoring
« on: December 19, 2021, 12:49:41 PM »
I'm very good at running pre-written campaigns (which I have no trouble hacking and improvising around) but despite consuming lots of GM advice (books, blog posts, etc.) can't really create things well on my own (both during prep time and in sessions) from whole cloth - dynamic campaigns, more sandboxy. I can tell you all about plot factories, and loopy planning, and fronts, but can't actually produce something (I have OneNote notebooks full of GM advice) where I'm completely improvising scenes based on my own stuff. I can easily come up with seeds, but can't turn them into anything interesting at the table.

Can I just pay someone who can do this to mentor me? There must be someone who can do this well who could just meet with me for 15 minutes a week to give me some direction.

I've run probably at least one session a week of something (lots of different games) over the past 15 years, so if it was just practice I should be good at it.

Wrath of God

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 895
  • Fearful Symmetry
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2021, 01:12:11 PM »
Maybe well that's your forte.
I mean if you can easily hack and improvise around pre-written campaign that's already quite good deal, many many GM's are unable to do it - either with own plans or pre-written ones.

Question is: if you prepare aditional side-things on your own before session - can you make it work, without need to improvise from scratch?
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2021, 01:12:36 PM »
How much pay are we talking about?

Svenhelgrim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2021, 08:48:06 AM »
Just change the names and alter the maps.  Most published settings are ripoffs of something else anyway.  Forgotten Realms is just a mishmash of Middle Earth and Howard’s  Hyborean Age.  It even has a “Gandalf” character.  John Wick’s Theah is just 16th c. Europe with all the serial numbers filed off and everything renamed.

Good artists borrow, great artists steal.

PencilBoy99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • P
  • Posts: 575
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2021, 10:37:11 AM »
Re pay idk. I don't know that anyone has ever done this before?

Re modules that's probably a good idea. I could just reskin adventures from other settings. that didn't occur to me.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2021, 11:39:13 AM »
Re pay idk. I don't know that anyone has ever done this before?

Re modules that's probably a good idea. I could just reskin adventures from other settings. that didn't occur to me.
What are you looking for in mentoring? Do you want to discuss how to fit all of your pieces together for the sake of greatest coherency (world building), or fitting it together to best engage your group's interests? The two can sometimes reach the same ends, but sometimes have quite different steps to get there.

How much of your background materials do you expect your mentor to review before giving advice? Fifteen minutes of advice from someone that has read over everything you're trying to put together will be far more productive than fifteen minutes from someone coming in cold, but are you going to pay for your mentor's prep time?

Do you already have a method of meeting in mind (e.g., Discord)?

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2021, 12:10:21 PM »
It might be simpler to just recognize it's an area where you're weak. Because if you can take a pre-written campaign and make it compelling by fleshing it out and improvising as you go, you're already a good DM.

This isn't an area where a 15 minute pep talk will help. This is a very complex subject integrating many things, so you're effectively asking for the hobby equivalent of a life or career coach. Which is very hard to do, requires a lot of time, and the results will probably never be what you want.

Bedrockbrendan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12695
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2021, 12:30:31 PM »
I'm very good at running pre-written campaigns (which I have no trouble hacking and improvising around) but despite consuming lots of GM advice (books, blog posts, etc.) can't really create things well on my own (both during prep time and in sessions) from whole cloth - dynamic campaigns, more sandboxy. I can tell you all about plot factories, and loopy planning, and fronts, but can't actually produce something (I have OneNote notebooks full of GM advice) where I'm completely improvising scenes based on my own stuff. I can easily come up with seeds, but can't turn them into anything interesting at the table.

Have you had a lot of experience playing in campaigns with a GM who can do these things well? I think part of it starts there.

My experience running sandbox stuff is its like anything else: you learn by doing, and need to exercise the parts of your brain that help with stuff like improvisation. A key for me with this was being relaxed enough to accept failure when it happened. If I had a session where I was off, I viewed that as an opportunity to learn. When players reacted positively to something, I made note of it (a little like a stand up comic learning from bombing and from getting a good reaction from the crowd).

The key thing for me was learning to relax. If I felt I was a little tense or overly nervous, I made a point of relaxing and not worrying about how the session would go. You can actually learn a lot watching a session bomb in real time if you are conscious of it.

Also pay close attention to your players reactions and mood. Sometimes the GM spins something and it feels underwhelming to the GM but the players are enjoying it. So make sure you have an accurate assessment of how your stuff is being received).

What part of improvising scenes is the block for you? I think if you can isolate that you might be able to try running some low pressure scenarios with a couple of players to push yourself into that zone and try to overcome that block. Unless it is something like there is a fundamental piece of improvising you are having trouble grasping. That is a little different.


Bedrockbrendan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12695
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2021, 12:33:57 PM »
It might be simpler to just recognize it's an area where you're weak. Because if you can take a pre-written campaign and make it compelling by fleshing it out and improvising as you go, you're already a good DM.


This is definitely something to keep in mind. Everyone's brain is a little different, and not everyone has the same talents. If it is truly something that just isn't in your wheel house, and you are enjoying engaging with all the other aspects of prep and GMing, it is fine to stick with what you know. I can't really do accents or voices for example. Maybe with enough practice I could get okay enough, but I realized it is a part of GMing that just doesn't fit my personality. I think sometimes you need to do what works for you, and not worry about things that other people do well.

PencilBoy99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • P
  • Posts: 575
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2021, 01:30:43 PM »
Good points. I may have overestimated how much support I would need.

S'mon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13315
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2021, 02:02:57 PM »
Sandbox, you need a map, some detailed NPCs, and some procedural content generation - encounter tables. For me the map & the NPCs are probably the most important thing. The motivations of the PCs & NPCs drive the action. The map allows exploration & interaction.

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2021, 03:24:38 PM »
It might be simpler to just recognize it's an area where you're weak. Because if you can take a pre-written campaign and make it compelling by fleshing it out and improvising as you go, you're already a good DM.


This is definitely something to keep in mind. Everyone's brain is a little different, and not everyone has the same talents. If it is truly something that just isn't in your wheel house, and you are enjoying engaging with all the other aspects of prep and GMing, it is fine to stick with what you know. I can't really do accents or voices for example. Maybe with enough practice I could get okay enough, but I realized it is a part of GMing that just doesn't fit my personality. I think sometimes you need to do what works for you, and not worry about things that other people do well.
Yep. And these are also fundamental skills, and fundamental skills aren't something you just take a 30 minute course and learn. It's like public speaking, or small talk -- some people are naturals, others struggle forever. And while there are ways to get better, and some improvements may involve some kind of transformative moment, it typically takes a long, long period of time.

PencilBoy99, I'm not recommending you give up. But if you have notebooks full of advice, that suggests you're still in the phase where you're trying put all the pieces together. At that point, even if all the individual parts you wrote down kind of make sense, you're still going to look at everything and go "I don't get this" or "I don't even know where to start". It's perfectly natural to feel lost.

The long term solution is generally 1) don't give up, but also 2) don't obsess too much over it, because sometimes a little distance can help. In the meantime, keep developing your skills in that direction. Expand on what you're improvising, for instance, because improvisation is really the key skill in running a sandbox campaign. Maybe start with some of those 1dX tables that the OSR loves so much, and see if they inspire you, or even create some yourself.

Steven Mitchell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 3770
Re: GM Mentoring
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2021, 10:27:47 AM »
It is very easy to use things without understanding them.  I'm guessing there may be some of that going on based on what you say.  If so, a good technique to force yourself out of that box is to first imitate something directly without even trying to adapt it. 

As an example, this is a technique for teaching how to learn different poetry styles.  Take an existing poem of the style you want to learn, then start substituting words and phrases exactly 1:1 until you've changed the meaning to something else. Same syllables and emphasis every time.  The finished "poem" is going to be dreck.  It doesn't even rise to the level of parody.  So with the goal of producing something useful, this is a terrible technique. However, doing this forces the person to pay attention to the technical aspects of the work--meter, rhyme, alliteration, structure, etc.  In other words, it makes you really study the original in a systematic way.

That doesn't help any in integrating multiple things into a viable whole. However, if you are already adapting existing things to your table, then you've already got some skills there.

So try the same thing with the sandbox elements, however you get them, from your existing sources, or advice, or discussion here, or whatever.  Take a simple wandering monster table that you like in an existing work. Translate it 1:1 directly into a wandering monster table for another area (even another existing one, not your own).  The only goal is to keep the structure but change the affects.  Make it more or less powerful.  Change the ecosystem represented.  Make it for a different game.  Anything.

That's a crude example that likely you've already done without even thinking about it as a substitution technique.  Well, the same thing works on "small village with 3-6 ruins or other interesting adventure sites within a few days travel" or any other game structure you can imagine.  Imitate enough, you start to really understand the purpose of the structure, and then integrating into your own things becomes easy.