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Author Topic: DCCRPG going Woke  (Read 11416 times)

rytrasmi

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2021, 11:26:50 AM »
I have coworker who uses "they." Consequently, I always refer to this person by name. I also talk to this person directly using "you," which for some reason is okay. "You" has traditionally been used to refer to males and females, so I'm not sure how that's not offensive to this person. But what do I know? I'm just a regular guy. Shrug.

Third person pronouns are placeholders to avoid repeating more descriptive words, such as "player," "Jimbo," and "that asshole over there." They are stylistic fluff. What a weak ass hill to die on.


Wrath of God

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2021, 11:46:48 AM »
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If using in the third person.  What these nuts want is for you to refer to them (see what I just did there?) using "they/them" in the first person.

I'm quite sure that's not the point of DCC. They use singular "they" for third person to describe GM's, PC's and players actions within gameplay, specifically as neutral form.
Now sure there are various individuals calling themselves enby, that tries to use as their defult pronoun singular or plural, but tbh even then I'm quite sure they (sic!) do not use it in first place.
All those xirs/zens/hshes and others still use I AM in first person. At least I've not yet found one doing otherwise, though sheer amount of lunacy points they exist.

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I am a native English speaker, and I promise that anyone who wrote this is as full of bullshit as DCC is.

"They" is plural in English. Anyone telling you otherwise is already playing the Woke game.

Well Wiki claims otherwise, and I must say given examples of utterly non-pronoun use they points out - I'm quite sure that's form I was taught to use. In 90's, in Poland, so rather without much woke influence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

I am a native English speaker, and I promise that anyone who wrote this is as full of bullshit as DCC is.

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But why complain? If THEY want to be dehumanized, that's THEIR decision, right?

 ;D Indeed. Funny enough in Polish there is impersonal form of verbs, it lacks any pronoun and it's built in a way that something was done, but no Subject is given.
There's sci-fi novel written in 1st person which is in 80% written like this, after narrator lose faith in his own existence as essentialy separate subject. ;)

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That's the argument that gets used. And it's fine if you live in centuries old england. But we don't.

Check Wiki link above - those forms does not sounds like some old English.

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The generalized form means that singular example is representative of the general group.

Which fits excellently for abbreviated players and GM's in description of gameplay in RPG book. Because singular they-GM is representative of general GM's. Example.
And it somehow sounds good... so I'm not really that fond of abandoning proper form to avoid association with woke.

(No one can argue that DCC while using this form properly, do it for nefarious reasons, and that's highly likely - but there is question how contrarian do we want to get. If we went too far anti-woke gonna be just as ludicrous parody as woke)

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Consequently, I always refer to this person by name. I also talk to this person directly using "you," which for some reason is okay. "You" has traditionally been used to refer to males and females, so I'm not sure how that's not offensive to this person. But what do I know? I'm just a regular guy. Shrug.

You is second person, and second and first person are not gendered in Indoeuropean languages. There is just one form regardless. All push for pronouns is linked to 3rd person.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

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Shawn Driscoll

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2021, 11:48:45 AM »
I never bought DCC to begin with because the designer was a leftist.

Oh. And Mike is a cuck.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 11:57:13 AM by Shawn Driscoll »

jhkim

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2021, 12:13:20 PM »
What pronoun pattern did DCCRPG use previously, out of curiousity? Did it "he or she" for generic people like original AD&D? Or something else?

rytrasmi

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2021, 12:15:12 PM »
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Consequently, I always refer to this person by name. I also talk to this person directly using "you," which for some reason is okay. "You" has traditionally been used to refer to males and females, so I'm not sure how that's not offensive to this person. But what do I know? I'm just a regular guy. Shrug.

You is second person, and second and first person are not gendered in Indoeuropean languages. There is just one form regardless. All push for pronouns is linked to 3rd person.
Oh, I realize that. However, "you" has traditionally been used to refer to male and female. If someone does not use "he" or "she" because they believe they are neither gender, then it is inconsistent to call that person "you." Same goes for first person. This is why the pronoun game is half-assed and weak.

HappyDaze

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2021, 12:21:35 PM »
The idea that an OSR product would attempt to appeal to something directly opposed to their target market boggles my mind. Older been tend to be more conservative and they're usually the ones who play OSR. Unless I'm wrong in that regard, but I don't think I am.

That's like trying to market guns to Californians or pork to Muslims. Or beef to Hindus. Or Televisions to the Amish.

I could go on for a while but I think you get the point.
If OSR doesn't push towards newer players, it's current fan base will age/die out at some point.

jhkim

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2021, 12:25:07 PM »
Oh, I realize that. However, "you" has traditionally been used to refer to male and female. If someone does not use "he" or "she" because they believe they are neither gender, then it is inconsistent to call that person "you." Same goes for first person. This is why the pronoun game is half-assed and weak.

What do you consider the proper 2nd person pronoun for gender neutral? Does this mean that if I yell "You piece of shit!" at my malfunctioning car, I'm grammatically incorrect? If so, what's the proper form?

GeekyBugle

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2021, 12:30:16 PM »
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Consequently, I always refer to this person by name. I also talk to this person directly using "you," which for some reason is okay. "You" has traditionally been used to refer to males and females, so I'm not sure how that's not offensive to this person. But what do I know? I'm just a regular guy. Shrug.

You is second person, and second and first person are not gendered in Indoeuropean languages. There is just one form regardless. All push for pronouns is linked to 3rd person.
Oh, I realize that. However, "you" has traditionally been used to refer to male and female. If someone does not use "he" or "she" because they believe they are neither gender, then it is inconsistent to call that person "you." Same goes for first person. This is why the pronoun game is half-assed and weak.


Someone please tell me what type of person we used to have especial pronouns for?

Because if I'm not mistaken that's the royalty/priesthood.

Are the transactivists claiming to be of royal blood or part of the priesthood of a new cult?

I'm sorry but I live in a country where we don't have royalty, I don't belong to the new cult, and I refuse to grant them the same type of treatment I would give my King/Queen when talking about the Spanish Royalty.

Feel free to bend the knee before your new royalty/priesthood tho.
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GeekyBugle

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2021, 12:32:08 PM »
Oh, I realize that. However, "you" has traditionally been used to refer to male and female. If someone does not use "he" or "she" because they believe they are neither gender, then it is inconsistent to call that person "you." Same goes for first person. This is why the pronoun game is half-assed and weak.

What do you consider the proper 2nd person pronoun for gender neutral? Does this mean that if I yell "You piece of shit!" at my malfunctioning car, I'm grammatically incorrect? If so, what's the proper form?

Since you has always been used to refer to either of the two genders I would contend it is gender neutral.

Just like when writing using the gender neutral HE/HIS/HIM.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

rytrasmi

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2021, 12:33:30 PM »
What do you consider the proper 2nd person pronoun for gender neutral? Does this mean that if I yell "You piece of shit!" at my malfunctioning car, I'm grammatically incorrect? If so, what's the proper form?
"You" is gender neutral, clearly. What point are you trying to make with this question?

Melan

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2021, 12:42:13 PM »
What a weird decision. The woke people in the hobby never seemed to particularly like DCC; in fact, they tended to consider it suspicious and borderline problematic due to the source material it is allegedly based on. The "Appendix N" books DCC cites, rooted in toxic masculinity and good, red-blooded violence, are directly incompatible with modern woke ideals, and attempts to combine them have always produced an insipid mush.

Who in the active fandom were clamouring for these changes? Do the DCC players on this forum know?

If OSR doesn't push towards newer players, it's current fan base will age/die out at some point.
There are sufficient young gamers who have an honest interest in old-school gaming as it is, without the concessions to the rainbow brigades. Admitting the wokies adds nothing; in fact, it only diminishes the scene by making it hostile and eternally policed. Let these people into your living room, it will soon be their place, while they will be debating whether you can be allowed to stay, or if it is safe to kick you to the curb.

With the current state of affairs, a sane hobby community should engage in a bit of active gatekeeping to keep these types away and make them feel unwelcome. If the DCC people don't do their due diligence today, they are in for a rude awakening tomorrow, when these "new fans" will come up with newer and newer lists of demands to purge problematic elements and problematic people from the DCC scene.

Honestly, DCC would gain more by pandering directly to the neo-reactionary crowd. Not that they should, but they would actually appreciate DCC for what it is.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 12:44:08 PM by Melan »
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Wrath of God

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2021, 12:45:42 PM »
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Oh, I realize that. However, "you" has traditionally been used to refer to male and female. If someone does not use "he" or "she" because they believe they are neither gender, then it is inconsistent to call that person "you." Same goes for first person. This is why the pronoun game is half-assed and weak.

I find it... weak argument. I mean angels are genderless, and yet I when they speak, and You when you speak to angel seems to be rational use of English language.
Animals are generally refered as it, nevertheless of their biological sex, and yet when you talk to your dog, you use You.

So yeah.

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Someone please tell me what type of person we used to have especial pronouns for?

Because if I'm not mistaken that's the royalty/priesthood.


Are the transactivists claiming to be of royal blood or part of the priesthood of a new cult?

If they use plural in first person (second is irrelevant as you and thou were conflated by weak-ass evolution of English language) speaking about themselves as one person in "we are" mode. Then clearly they do :P

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"You" is gender neutral, clearly. What point are you trying to make with this question?

Clearly he's mocking your assessment that non-genderconforming queerfolk ... [short break to Listerine my mouth]... should not use "I" and "you" if they use some weird-ass neo-pronouns and deny their God-given gender for some weird-ass social constructs.

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Honestly, DCC would gain more by pandering directly to the neo-reactionary crowd. Not that they should, but they would actually appreciate DCC for what it is.

Nah OSR is for libertarians. Neo-reactionary folk wants skill-monkeyed simulations of space neofeudalism :P
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

jhkim

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2021, 12:58:19 PM »
What do you consider the proper 2nd person pronoun for gender neutral? Does this mean that if I yell "You piece of shit!" at my malfunctioning car, I'm grammatically incorrect? If so, what's the proper form?
"You" is gender neutral, clearly. What point are you trying to make with this question?

In reply #34, you claimed that "you" was incorrect to refer to something that is neither male nor female. Here's what you said:

Oh, I realize that. However, "you" has traditionally been used to refer to male and female. If someone does not use "he" or "she" because they believe they are neither gender, then it is inconsistent to call that person "you." Same goes for first person. This is why the pronoun game is half-assed and weak.

rytrasmi

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2021, 01:04:16 PM »
What do you consider the proper 2nd person pronoun for gender neutral? Does this mean that if I yell "You piece of shit!" at my malfunctioning car, I'm grammatically incorrect? If so, what's the proper form?
"You" is gender neutral, clearly. What point are you trying to make with this question?

In reply #34, you claimed that "you" was incorrect to refer to something that is neither male nor female. Here's what you said:

Oh, I realize that. However, "you" has traditionally been used to refer to male and female. If someone does not use "he" or "she" because they believe they are neither gender, then it is inconsistent to call that person "you." Same goes for first person. This is why the pronoun game is half-assed and weak.
No, I did not. I was pointing out an inconsistency in the thinking of the pronoun people.

Restated for you: If person X believes that "he" or "she" is insufficient for their gender because these words are traditionally used for male and female people, then person X should also believe that "you" is insufficient because this word is also traditionally used for male and female people.

SHARK

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Re: DCCRPG going Woke
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2021, 01:04:34 PM »
Greetings!

It is really too bad that DCC cannot just say, "We are adhering to the traditional rules of the English language."

Commercially, there is no need to say more, argue, justify, or anything else. Period.

It's also too bad that DCC doesn't have the balls to tell anyone that doesn't like them adhering to the rules of the traditional English language, well, they can just sob and get fucked. DCC doesn't need the fucking rainbow hippo's money or business in any way. Raging cunt feminists can get fucked, too. The world doesn't need to coddle them and make them feel "inclusive" by twisting the English language into a fucking pretzel.

Reee some more, bitches. Your tears are like sweet butter! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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