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Author Topic: DCC - tell me about it  (Read 2297 times)

Dave 2

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DCC - tell me about it
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2020, 02:44:00 AM »
Quote from: Simlasa;1140599
Is an adventure automatically a 'railroad' just because a dungeon layout is linear?

I didn't say anything about linear dungeon layouts. Which shows you know it's an issue. But since you mention it, a couple were literal straight lines when mapped by the players. I mean there'd be corners and stairs, but as a node map you quite literally advance from one to another with no choices whatsoever. Back or forward. And sometimes back isn't even an option because you're locked in or on a do-or-die mission. So yes, that is both linear and a railroad.

Quote from: Simlasa;1140599
Not that all DCC dungeons are linear either.

Give me some titles then, I'd love to check them out. I played 4-5 published ones and flipped through a few more after that campaign ended, so I don't claim to have checked literally everything they've published. But everyone else I've heard from says my experience was typical.

And again - I like DCC the game. It's a good base for a longer campaign for a GM willing to do the heavy lifting on adventures and encounters. It's just the adventure catalog being heavy on railroads is a weird thing to have for an OSR-adjacent game.

Simlasa

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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2020, 03:46:47 AM »
Quote from: Dave R;1140560
The published adventures being outrageous railroads are opposite of the OSR best practice of jacquayed dungeons with player choice.
That's the bit I was responding too. It seems to conflate 'railroads' with linear dungeons (which are sortakinda the opposite of 'jacquayed').
A lot of DCC dungeons are pretty linear, but they're also generally quite small compared to stuff like Caverns Of Thracia.
To me, a railroad is an adventure with a story that cannot be altered/avoided... such as those long multi-book Pathfinder things. Going into a cave with a single entrance doesn't add up to the same, IMO.

Check out DCC#95 Enter The Dagon for a not-railroad (maybe depending on your concept of railroad)... but without a 'dungeon' as they're usually defined.
I'll have a look for more (I played a bunch of them without knowing the specific names).

Steven Mitchell

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DCC - tell me about it
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2020, 08:11:55 AM »
Quote from: Razor 007;1140606
There is Even an included adventure or two in the book that already contains a complete RPG.  It's a massive toolbox, and not very expensive for a hardback either.

I think if I ever get to run DCC at the table I'm going to need to buy the PDF too.  The single softcover is massive and relatively cheap.  However, that also means that there will be a lot of page flipping during play, which will be even worse if I use the starter adventure.  All those charts.  Even with the extra copies at the back, it's a lot of flipping.  

Strangely enough, I can see DCC working better as a forum game than in person, at least if one is running with only one book.  Then the mechanics being largely in the hand of the GM becomes a virtue.

Dave 2

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DCC - tell me about it
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2020, 11:20:32 PM »
You've got to print/copy the charts as soon as players have level 1 characters. Each player should have every chart their character uses. It's not a small difference in speed and overall experience.

Batjon

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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2020, 12:38:00 AM »
Quote from: Premier;1140352
I've browsed the book and played in one game. My (admittedly limited) experience gives me the impression that it's a flawed gem, but your assessment may differ if so do your needs and expectations.

In general, it strikes me as an OSR game which includes a lot of interesting ideas, but sacrifices simplicity for those. For example, the idea that magic users can draw their power from different sources, and that spellcasting can have side effects and you're not sure how powerful the spell is going to be until you cast it is cool in theory and the results can certainly be fun... but it means you have to make an extra roll and then look up the result in one of several tables every time you cast a spell. Remember how in 1st ed. AD&D you made an attack roll and then had to find the appropriate table (with tables spread over several pages) to cross-index your roll with your level and the target's AC? Well, it's a bit like that, only for wizards. And for me that's a negative, because I didn't like the attack tables, either.

As for the much-vaunted "character funnel", that's like Trump's presidency: a publicity stunt that too many people took seriously, got out of hand and became a much bigger thing than it ever should have been. The idea that "finally, your characters start out REALLY FRAGILE and can DIE BY THE DROVES because IT'S SO OLD-SCHOOL" doesn't hold water, because actual old-school D&D already has REALLY FRAGILE characters potentially DYING BY THE DROVES. It's called "being first-level." The "let's make them ZERO level so they're EVEN MORE REALLY FRAGILE" thing is the die-rolling equivalent of walking 10 miles to school and back in waist-high snow very day, uphill both ways.

Now, I'm not saying DCC is not good. It has very interesting ideas, it just pays a price for those ideas that I personally value higher - at least in a product which is supposed to be old-school and simple.


DCC is one of my fave RPGs of all-time, not only OSR games, but overall RPGs.  The table are easily accessible and well organized.  If you print them and have them at the table, like I did, it moves very quickly and easily and the results are freaking awesome.  There is even a free app you can get from Purple Sorceror Games (https://purplesorcerer.com/) for your cell phone or you can use online at their site on a tablet or laptop during the game that automates it all for you and give you results in an instant.  

The same site also includes the following tools for DCC GMs:

0-Level Party Generator
Mutant Crawl Classics 0-Level Party Generator
Upper Level Character Generator
The Crawler's Companion
The Sorcerer's Grimoire
Demon Generator
Dragon Generator
Mercurial Magic Generator
Scroll Generator
Sword Magic Generator
Unique Monster Trait Generator

They also make adventures for the game as well.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 12:44:05 AM by Batjon »

JeffB

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« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2020, 12:35:20 PM »
So here are my thoughts- Years ago I posted this on another forum after soliciting input about DCC RPG and running the Game for my Kids Group (13-14yos at the time) This was in 2013 and first sessions report- Ran a mixup of N5 set in The Wilderlands along with "Portal" from the core book.

Quote from: jeffB
really enjoyed the "same but different" play of the game. The interesting bits that have become humdrum...healing, basic spells, are much fun and the new stunt type system...deeds... seemed to go over well. My son got really creative, which was nice to see. I felt like the system, despite the added crunchy bits played pretty smoothly ( I spent alot of time printing up tables and spells for quick reference and converted my 4e screen). It was not quite as smooth or easy as running ODD/SW, but I made a point to play up the excitement of crits and fumbles and spell rolls, which made for more "hurry up..what happens????" Comments rather than " this takes too much time to figure out" comments I get sometimes with modern D&Ds.

"feel" of the session certainly leaned towards old school/od&d, rather than "3e lite which was my fear.

2016- 3 years later my thread came up again...

Quote from: JeffB
I see this thread came back up.

Ultimately, DCCRPG was too fiddly and too random for the group. The kids are notorious bad dice rollers and they quickly found the game not fun with crits, wasted spells, fumbles ,etc. They just got plastered all the time. In addition, the chart lookups were tedious after a few sessions, despite having printed out copies.

I do think there are some solid mechanics to steal though- e.g. clerics healing and fighter stunts are things I incorporated into my BXOD&D/S&W mashup.

I also find it very inspirational in the "fluff/flavor" sense, and still keep it around for just that reason.


Some bits I would add for 2020

I personally don't like Funnels at all except as a separate one time session. Didn't like them initially either

Not terribly enamored of the DCC community- a bit clique-ish.

I still have a copy, but It's been in storage for a couple years. I think DCC RPG has some solid fun mechanics , but I think the DCC team/community try too hard to be edgy/gonzo, and it got old, quick.  Some good adventure material buried under alot of "it's OK".
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 12:44:34 PM by JeffB »

Simlasa

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« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2020, 02:00:30 PM »
I agree that the fanbase for DCC can be... I wouldn't say 'clique-ish', but 'over zealous' maybe? Not in the usual 'Game X is the game to end all games and can do EVERYTHING!!!', but in that they embrace making it a 'lifestyle'. Goodman puts out soooo much bling for the game... and the whole thing with alternate covers, alternate foil covers... it's giving me flashbacks to crazy comic book excesses in the 90s.

I'm a big fan of the game, but like with lots of things, I don't want 'those people' representing my interests.

Razor 007

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« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2020, 05:39:37 PM »
Quote from: Simlasa;1141438
I agree that the fanbase for DCC can be... I wouldn't say 'clique-ish', but 'over zealous' maybe? Not in the usual 'Game X is the game to end all games and can do EVERYTHING!!!', but in that they embrace making it a 'lifestyle'. Goodman puts out soooo much bling for the game... and the whole thing with alternate covers, alternate foil covers... it's giving me flashbacks to crazy comic book excesses in the 90s.

I'm a big fan of the game, but like with lots of things, I don't want 'those people' representing my interests.

There is a certain atmosphere around DCC, because it frankly has unique content and lore that aren't found in other games.  I can see where people who only play DCC and talk about it a lot, could come across as being "too much" to others who don't.
I need you to roll a perception check.....

JeffB

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« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2020, 06:13:05 PM »
Quote from: Simlasa;1141438
I agree that the fanbase for DCC can be... I wouldn't say 'clique-ish', but 'over zealous' maybe? Not in the usual 'Game X is the game to end all games and can do EVERYTHING!!!', but in that they embrace making it a 'lifestyle'. Goodman puts out soooo much bling for the game... and the whole thing with alternate covers, alternate foil covers...

Yes, perhaps that is more like what I perceive...A Cult... Instead of Clique ;)

bat

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« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2020, 10:54:49 PM »
Quote from: Simlasa;1141438
I agree that the fanbase for DCC can be... I wouldn't say 'clique-ish', but 'over zealous' maybe? Not in the usual 'Game X is the game to end all games and can do EVERYTHING!!!', but in that they embrace making it a 'lifestyle'. Goodman puts out soooo much bling for the game... and the whole thing with alternate covers, alternate foil covers... it's giving me flashbacks to crazy comic book excesses in the 90s.

I'm a big fan of the game, but like with lots of things, I don't want 'those people' representing my interests.

Exactly this. In time I found I was just collecting DCC stuff after a couple of years of being part of the Road Crew. It is a cult now and I think I fell out of it. Hopefully I won't be hunted down and pelted with even more funny shaped dice than I normally need for a game.
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Razor 007

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« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2020, 01:33:12 AM »
Quote from: bat;1141756
Exactly this. In time I found I was just collecting DCC stuff after a couple of years of being part of the Road Crew. It is a cult now and I think I fell out of it. Hopefully I won't be hunted down and pelted with even more funny shaped dice than I normally need for a game.

"More funny shaped dice..."  was a turnoff to me at first.  I didn't like it that the handfuls and handfuls of D&D polyhedrals I owned weren't enough to play the game.  I resisted purchasing a set of the DCC dice; but once I did, within a few weeks I went ahead and purchased a second set.  After that; with 1 book and 2 sets of the dice, I had enough to run DCC for many years.
I need you to roll a perception check.....

bat

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« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2020, 11:56:22 AM »
More dice, more tables. I have several sets, plus there is the Purple Sorcerer app. I think that the extra dice is a gimmick that, in many situations,  solves a situation that a judge could easily with a quick decision. That is just me though.
Ancient Vaults & Eldritch Secrets

Sans la colère. Sans la haine. Et sans la pitié.

Jag är inte en människa. Det här är bara en dröm, och snart vaknar jag.


Running: Barbarians of Lemuria, Black Sword Hack
Playing: AD&D 1st Edition.