What exactly did 13th Age fix about 4E that 4E didn't have "working"?

Quote from: Arminius;861440Hah, no. Malcolm quoted JoT (and apparently agreed with him).

Thank goodness for that!

13th Age is really cool but absolutely nothing like AD&D 2E.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;861441What exactly did 13th Age fix about 4E that 4E didn't have "working"?

I enjoy 4e, but 13th Age lets you skip the board and keeps the action moving. It's even less about builds, and the core classes are more flavorful.

Also, 13th Age has a range of PC complexity so players who like crunch have more crunchy classes and players who just want to read nothing more than their character sheet have equally good choices.

When I've played 13th Age, it felt less constrained than 4e and the freeform aspect worked great for our group. I'd play a campaign, but I'd have to run it a couple more time before deciding if it works for me.

In what fucking way does 5e not encourage "serious play"? More specifically, how does 13th age do anything more "Serious"?

Quote from: RPGPundit;862512In what fucking way does 5e not encourage "serious play"? More specifically, how does 13th age do anything more "Serious"?

Granted this is my own attempt at understanding the notion but perhaps its due to the total amount of time invested when it comes creating and growing your character mechanically as well as time invested playing it. If the options at char-gen and each level increment is more minimal than what you're used too, it can feel incomplete and thus, less "serious".

I don't think Serious is the correct word to use here because of course its as serious as the player/DM/group makes it and its not dependent on any specific edition. Maybe more in-depth or Crunchy might be more appropriate? I get it, to a degree, that the less mechanical selection can leave a player used to it like "so....that's it? I'm done?"

Dev shilling aside, 13th Age is a VERY functional version of 4E and I really like it.  What helps is all you need is the core book but getting True Ways and Bestiary do help and give useful options. Ya, it's a 4E hack, but it's a damn good 4E hack.

The apparent referent for D&D per se is the TSR line prior to AD&D 2nd Edition. Thing is, I played with the 2E rules when they first came out -- having played for years with the earlier editions going right back to the original -- and the differences were about as subtle as among those!

The actual game variation from one campaign to another was where things of real significance appeared; beside that, the abstractions in the books were close enough to the same. Really, one could not say what edition of the books was in use without seeing it.

In recent years, I've been in a group that mixed the AD&D editions, along with BX and BECM (and with one GM, some stuff from 3E). It is really not a big deal!

With the WotC editions, each very much draws attention to itself as a different game, as much from the old game as from each other that Wizards has produced. I would be mighty surprised if the same does not hold for 13th Age.

We just played 13th Age on Thursdays and 5e on Sundays for over a year.

They are both D&D, but I'd say 5e feels more like how I remember BECMI which I ran and played as a kid. 13th Age is much more high powered and less fiddly, but I suspect that it's less like AD&D or 3e than some would like.

They're both very fine games, and 13th Age's light narrative overlay suits me very well. On the other hand I liked the slightly more trad and extensive skill list in 5e, and the excellent advantage/disadvantage rules.

There is more book keeping in 5e, and it's better suited to minis. If you want minis-free then 13th Age handles that better.

You could cut and paste bits of one to the other, like the escalation die, the advantage/disadvantage thing, inspiration and maybe the more trad skill list or the looser one.

But I think Jonathan was being a bit of a spin doctor, and the 'serious' comment is badly judged, but hey.. he's a good designer and done some great games and 13th is a very good game..

as is 5e..