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Author Topic: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.  (Read 1421 times)

Ratman_tf

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D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« on: December 23, 2020, 01:32:31 AM »
Well, I was planning to run D6 WEG Star Wars over christmas break, but it looks like we're not going to have one of the two players, so that's a bust.

But I put the outline for the adventure together today. And goddamn, Stormtroopers RAW are hot garbage! I needed some non-Stormtrooper guards mixed in with the Stormtroopers, and even army guys are better than Stormtroopers!

I would have really liked to run it RAW, but if I run this, I'm gonna have to do something about the Garbagetroopers. I understand the arguments that the Stormtroopers are generic mooks, but I feel they should be more of a threat than a typical soldier-guy.
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jeff37923

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2020, 02:03:27 AM »
Well, I was planning to run D6 WEG Star Wars over christmas break, but it looks like we're not going to have one of the two players, so that's a bust.

But I put the outline for the adventure together today. And goddamn, Stormtroopers RAW are hot garbage! I needed some non-Stormtrooper guards mixed in with the Stormtroopers, and even army guys are better than Stormtroopers!

I would have really liked to run it RAW, but if I run this, I'm gonna have to do something about the Garbagetroopers. I understand the arguments that the Stormtroopers are generic mooks, but I feel they should be more of a threat than a typical soldier-guy.

Make them actually use small unit tactics. A 'squad' of 9 stormtroopers will have one with a support weapon like a repeating blaster or grenade launcher or mortar. Have them use covering fire. Make full use of their communications so that they work as a unit. Allow them to have a sniper providing covering fire. Use grenades. Have a scout trooper with speeder bike providing support.


Ratman_tf

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2020, 03:36:07 AM »
Well, I was planning to run D6 WEG Star Wars over christmas break, but it looks like we're not going to have one of the two players, so that's a bust.

But I put the outline for the adventure together today. And goddamn, Stormtroopers RAW are hot garbage! I needed some non-Stormtrooper guards mixed in with the Stormtroopers, and even army guys are better than Stormtroopers!

I would have really liked to run it RAW, but if I run this, I'm gonna have to do something about the Garbagetroopers. I understand the arguments that the Stormtroopers are generic mooks, but I feel they should be more of a threat than a typical soldier-guy.

Make them actually use small unit tactics. A 'squad' of 9 stormtroopers will have one with a support weapon like a repeating blaster or grenade launcher or mortar. Have them use covering fire. Make full use of their communications so that they work as a unit. Allow them to have a sniper providing covering fire. Use grenades. Have a scout trooper with speeder bike providing support.

I can do that easily. I'm just surprised that Stormtroopers are the weakest mooks even compared to the other imperial soldiers in the sourcebook.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 04:44:03 AM by Ratman_tf »
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Chris24601

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2020, 10:00:12 AM »
Yeah, WEG tended to compare Stormtrooper performance to the protagonists and not to other mooks.

Obi-Wan’s line about “only imperial stormtroopers could be so precise” was not intended to be ironic; just look at how well they stormed the Tantive-IV in the cold open... minimal casualties, the other side completely annihilated.

Similarly, the attack on Hoth was a curb-stomp in the Empire’s favor.

It’s only when dealing with “the PCs” that their competence drops off to near comical levels.

The easiest fix for Stormtroopers is remove the armor check penalties from their armor and bump their STR, DEX and MECH stats up to 3D. 5D for blasters can be quickly outclassed by PCs, but is more than enough to be deadly against non-PCs (vs. 3D they have between 2D Dex, 2D skill and -1D armor check penalty).

Ratman_tf

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2020, 10:09:50 AM »
Yeah, WEG tended to compare Stormtrooper performance to the protagonists and not to other mooks.

Obi-Wan’s line about “only imperial stormtroopers could be so precise” was not intended to be ironic; just look at how well they stormed the Tantive-IV in the cold open... minimal casualties, the other side completely annihilated.

EC Henry did a video on this exact topic.



Quote
Similarly, the attack on Hoth was a curb-stomp in the Empire’s favor.

It’s only when dealing with “the PCs” that their competence drops off to near comical levels.

The easiest fix for Stormtroopers is remove the armor check penalties from their armor and bump their STR, DEX and MECH stats up to 3D. 5D for blasters can be quickly outclassed by PCs, but is more than enough to be deadly against non-PCs (vs. 3D they have between 2D Dex, 2D skill and -1D armor check penalty).

Yeah, I wanted to run it RAW, but I think I'm going to have to do something to make Stormtroopers, at the very least, not a joke compared to the other Imperial forces.
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Chris24601

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2020, 10:59:12 AM »
Yeah, I wanted to run it RAW, but I think I'm going to have to do something to make Stormtroopers, at the very least, not a joke compared to the other Imperial forces.
By the book, the best way to make Stormtroopers more effective is just remove their armor. The system with its death spiral and rather shallow scale between A-Okay and unable to fight/dead is so skewed towards dodging being superior to armor that the extra 1D of armor vs. blasters (for a whopping 3D vs. a 5D blaster rifle or carbine) is just NOT worth the -1D to all physical tasks like firing blasters and dodging... particularly if you don't have character/force points to throw into the pot to save you.

It's not until you get to the likes of Boba Fett's +3D armor vs. energy for -1D to physical skills (so you're guy with 6D in blasters and Dodge and 3D Strength goes to 5D in blasters and dodge with 6D to soak hits from 4-5D weapons) that WEG armor starts to become viable (and Fett's armor was there said to be durasteel... so if you were to say The Mandalorian's Beskar was 4D armor, he'd be a complete beast in the WEG system with a better than average chance of being able to soak a repeating blaster hit with no damage and the next most likely result being stunned for a round).

Slipshot762

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2020, 09:09:47 PM »
just wave their armor related penalties and call it a benefit of imperial training; according to imperial sourcebook everybody does a stormtrooper rotation every so often, even elite imperial guards so feel free to jack up their skills as needed.

as to obi-wans dialogue; i always took that to mean not marksmanship but their tactical choice in getting a mobility kill on the sandcrawler to board and search it, a precisely planned and executed attack with a clear cut primary/secondary objective.

Ratman_tf

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2020, 09:57:14 PM »
In the end, I decided to tweak the not-Stormtrooper troopers so they're a little less powerful than the stock Stormtroopers. (One less dice on skills, +2 pip armor) This is an intro adventure and I can always tweak things later if I feel like it.
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Chris24601

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2020, 10:51:43 PM »
In the end, I decided to tweak the not-Stormtrooper troopers so they're a little less powerful than the stock Stormtroopers. (One less dice on skills, +2 pip armor) This is an intro adventure and I can always tweak things later if I feel like it.
Not a bad plan. Worth remembering is that the average PC DEX is 3D and with only 7D in skills to start its very easy to have PCs with only 3D in dodge or blasters because they need those dice for some other traits (the medic or mechanic or pilot for example).

3D blasters/dodge vs. Stormtroopers means you’re only going to hit about half the time and will fail to dodge (without burning CP) half the time too and a 3D STR means the average blaster rifle damage (17.5) will likely wound and could very easily incapacitate, mortally wound or even outright kill if you roll poorly to resist and the trooper rolls above average.

Combat monsters (Wookies, the guys with 6D in blasters/dodgd) will plow through Stormtroopers like a hot knife through butter... but with half or more of their skill dice focused on that; they deserve to.

S'mon

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2020, 04:27:50 AM »
1. Armour penalties should be much lower, just a small dodge penalty.
2. Stormtroopers should have stats superior to the average human, 2D in everything.
3. Stormtroopers should be inferior to the heroes.

So 3D in the stats they use and 5D in dedicated skills works well.
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HappyDaze

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2020, 11:53:21 AM »
1. Armour penalties should be much lower, just a small dodge penalty.
2. Stormtroopers should have stats superior to the average human, 2D in everything.
3. Stormtroopers should be inferior to the heroes.

So 3D in the stats they use and 5D in dedicated skills works well.
I agree with this. One good thing FFG did with their version was to make Stormtroopers superior to the average planetary cops, militia, and to Imperial Army troopers (yeah, guys like you see briefly in Solo). The basic characteristic profile of Stormtroopers was on par with starting PC, aside from an abnormally low Presence score. The only thing that kept Stormtroopers from matching PCs was the minion rules that limited their skills (when not acting in groups) and made it fairly easy to take them down quickly, even in large numbers.

Chris24601

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2020, 12:51:54 PM »
I noticed something too... that some confusion about competence too might be the result of edition differences.

3e (aka revised & expanded) gives Stormtroopers only 4D in blasters, but they omitted the line from 2e that gave them a 5D specialization in blaster rifles; putting them above both the Imperial Army Troopers (4D+1) and the sample Rebel Troopers (4D+2) in skill.

In fact Stormtroopers in 2e are also superior to Imp army troopers in Knowledge, Mechanical and the Technical attributes.

Ratman_tf

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2020, 01:17:03 PM »
I noticed something too... that some confusion about competence too might be the result of edition differences.

3e (aka revised & expanded) gives Stormtroopers only 4D in blasters, but they omitted the line from 2e that gave them a 5D specialization in blaster rifles; putting them above both the Imperial Army Troopers (4D+1) and the sample Rebel Troopers (4D+2) in skill.

In fact Stormtroopers in 2e are also superior to Imp army troopers in Knowledge, Mechanical and the Technical attributes.

Good point. I'm using the 1st edition rules. The reprint physical books, and I have access to PDFs of some of the sourcebooks.
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HappyDaze

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2020, 01:46:33 PM »
I noticed something too... that some confusion about competence too might be the result of edition differences.

3e (aka revised & expanded) gives Stormtroopers only 4D in blasters, but they omitted the line from 2e that gave them a 5D specialization in blaster rifles; putting them above both the Imperial Army Troopers (4D+1) and the sample Rebel Troopers (4D+2) in skill.

In fact Stormtroopers in 2e are also superior to Imp army troopers in Knowledge, Mechanical and the Technical attributes.

Good point. I'm using the 1st edition rules. The reprint physical books, and I have access to PDFs of some of the sourcebooks.
There are several websites that claim to be legal and will provide you with access to PDFs of all of the sourcebooks.

Ratman_tf

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Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2020, 02:01:54 PM »
I noticed something too... that some confusion about competence too might be the result of edition differences.

3e (aka revised & expanded) gives Stormtroopers only 4D in blasters, but they omitted the line from 2e that gave them a 5D specialization in blaster rifles; putting them above both the Imperial Army Troopers (4D+1) and the sample Rebel Troopers (4D+2) in skill.

In fact Stormtroopers in 2e are also superior to Imp army troopers in Knowledge, Mechanical and the Technical attributes.

Good point. I'm using the 1st edition rules. The reprint physical books, and I have access to PDFs of some of the sourcebooks.
There are several websites that claim to be legal and will provide you with access to PDFs of all of the sourcebooks.

Yes. I'm not hurting for access to the books. I want to run 1st edition RAW partly out of nostalgia, and partly to see how the original rules hold up after all these years.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung