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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Ratman_tf on December 23, 2020, 01:32:31 AM

Title: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 23, 2020, 01:32:31 AM
Well, I was planning to run D6 WEG Star Wars over christmas break, but it looks like we're not going to have one of the two players, so that's a bust.

But I put the outline for the adventure together today. And goddamn, Stormtroopers RAW are hot garbage! I needed some non-Stormtrooper guards mixed in with the Stormtroopers, and even army guys are better than Stormtroopers!

I would have really liked to run it RAW, but if I run this, I'm gonna have to do something about the Garbagetroopers. I understand the arguments that the Stormtroopers are generic mooks, but I feel they should be more of a threat than a typical soldier-guy.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: jeff37923 on December 23, 2020, 02:03:27 AM
Well, I was planning to run D6 WEG Star Wars over christmas break, but it looks like we're not going to have one of the two players, so that's a bust.

But I put the outline for the adventure together today. And goddamn, Stormtroopers RAW are hot garbage! I needed some non-Stormtrooper guards mixed in with the Stormtroopers, and even army guys are better than Stormtroopers!

I would have really liked to run it RAW, but if I run this, I'm gonna have to do something about the Garbagetroopers. I understand the arguments that the Stormtroopers are generic mooks, but I feel they should be more of a threat than a typical soldier-guy.

Make them actually use small unit tactics. A 'squad' of 9 stormtroopers will have one with a support weapon like a repeating blaster or grenade launcher or mortar. Have them use covering fire. Make full use of their communications so that they work as a unit. Allow them to have a sniper providing covering fire. Use grenades. Have a scout trooper with speeder bike providing support.

Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 23, 2020, 03:36:07 AM
Well, I was planning to run D6 WEG Star Wars over christmas break, but it looks like we're not going to have one of the two players, so that's a bust.

But I put the outline for the adventure together today. And goddamn, Stormtroopers RAW are hot garbage! I needed some non-Stormtrooper guards mixed in with the Stormtroopers, and even army guys are better than Stormtroopers!

I would have really liked to run it RAW, but if I run this, I'm gonna have to do something about the Garbagetroopers. I understand the arguments that the Stormtroopers are generic mooks, but I feel they should be more of a threat than a typical soldier-guy.

Make them actually use small unit tactics. A 'squad' of 9 stormtroopers will have one with a support weapon like a repeating blaster or grenade launcher or mortar. Have them use covering fire. Make full use of their communications so that they work as a unit. Allow them to have a sniper providing covering fire. Use grenades. Have a scout trooper with speeder bike providing support.

I can do that easily. I'm just surprised that Stormtroopers are the weakest mooks even compared to the other imperial soldiers in the sourcebook.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Chris24601 on December 23, 2020, 10:00:12 AM
Yeah, WEG tended to compare Stormtrooper performance to the protagonists and not to other mooks.

Obi-Wan’s line about “only imperial stormtroopers could be so precise” was not intended to be ironic; just look at how well they stormed the Tantive-IV in the cold open... minimal casualties, the other side completely annihilated.

Similarly, the attack on Hoth was a curb-stomp in the Empire’s favor.

It’s only when dealing with “the PCs” that their competence drops off to near comical levels.

The easiest fix for Stormtroopers is remove the armor check penalties from their armor and bump their STR, DEX and MECH stats up to 3D. 5D for blasters can be quickly outclassed by PCs, but is more than enough to be deadly against non-PCs (vs. 3D they have between 2D Dex, 2D skill and -1D armor check penalty).
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 23, 2020, 10:09:50 AM
Yeah, WEG tended to compare Stormtrooper performance to the protagonists and not to other mooks.

Obi-Wan’s line about “only imperial stormtroopers could be so precise” was not intended to be ironic; just look at how well they stormed the Tantive-IV in the cold open... minimal casualties, the other side completely annihilated.

EC Henry did a video on this exact topic.



Quote
Similarly, the attack on Hoth was a curb-stomp in the Empire’s favor.

It’s only when dealing with “the PCs” that their competence drops off to near comical levels.

The easiest fix for Stormtroopers is remove the armor check penalties from their armor and bump their STR, DEX and MECH stats up to 3D. 5D for blasters can be quickly outclassed by PCs, but is more than enough to be deadly against non-PCs (vs. 3D they have between 2D Dex, 2D skill and -1D armor check penalty).

Yeah, I wanted to run it RAW, but I think I'm going to have to do something to make Stormtroopers, at the very least, not a joke compared to the other Imperial forces.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Chris24601 on December 23, 2020, 10:59:12 AM
Yeah, I wanted to run it RAW, but I think I'm going to have to do something to make Stormtroopers, at the very least, not a joke compared to the other Imperial forces.
By the book, the best way to make Stormtroopers more effective is just remove their armor. The system with its death spiral and rather shallow scale between A-Okay and unable to fight/dead is so skewed towards dodging being superior to armor that the extra 1D of armor vs. blasters (for a whopping 3D vs. a 5D blaster rifle or carbine) is just NOT worth the -1D to all physical tasks like firing blasters and dodging... particularly if you don't have character/force points to throw into the pot to save you.

It's not until you get to the likes of Boba Fett's +3D armor vs. energy for -1D to physical skills (so you're guy with 6D in blasters and Dodge and 3D Strength goes to 5D in blasters and dodge with 6D to soak hits from 4-5D weapons) that WEG armor starts to become viable (and Fett's armor was there said to be durasteel... so if you were to say The Mandalorian's Beskar was 4D armor, he'd be a complete beast in the WEG system with a better than average chance of being able to soak a repeating blaster hit with no damage and the next most likely result being stunned for a round).
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Slipshot762 on December 25, 2020, 09:09:47 PM
just wave their armor related penalties and call it a benefit of imperial training; according to imperial sourcebook everybody does a stormtrooper rotation every so often, even elite imperial guards so feel free to jack up their skills as needed.

as to obi-wans dialogue; i always took that to mean not marksmanship but their tactical choice in getting a mobility kill on the sandcrawler to board and search it, a precisely planned and executed attack with a clear cut primary/secondary objective.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 25, 2020, 09:57:14 PM
In the end, I decided to tweak the not-Stormtrooper troopers so they're a little less powerful than the stock Stormtroopers. (One less dice on skills, +2 pip armor) This is an intro adventure and I can always tweak things later if I feel like it.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Chris24601 on December 25, 2020, 10:51:43 PM
In the end, I decided to tweak the not-Stormtrooper troopers so they're a little less powerful than the stock Stormtroopers. (One less dice on skills, +2 pip armor) This is an intro adventure and I can always tweak things later if I feel like it.
Not a bad plan. Worth remembering is that the average PC DEX is 3D and with only 7D in skills to start its very easy to have PCs with only 3D in dodge or blasters because they need those dice for some other traits (the medic or mechanic or pilot for example).

3D blasters/dodge vs. Stormtroopers means you’re only going to hit about half the time and will fail to dodge (without burning CP) half the time too and a 3D STR means the average blaster rifle damage (17.5) will likely wound and could very easily incapacitate, mortally wound or even outright kill if you roll poorly to resist and the trooper rolls above average.

Combat monsters (Wookies, the guys with 6D in blasters/dodgd) will plow through Stormtroopers like a hot knife through butter... but with half or more of their skill dice focused on that; they deserve to.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: S'mon on December 26, 2020, 04:27:50 AM
1. Armour penalties should be much lower, just a small dodge penalty.
2. Stormtroopers should have stats superior to the average human, 2D in everything.
3. Stormtroopers should be inferior to the heroes.

So 3D in the stats they use and 5D in dedicated skills works well.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: HappyDaze on December 26, 2020, 11:53:21 AM
1. Armour penalties should be much lower, just a small dodge penalty.
2. Stormtroopers should have stats superior to the average human, 2D in everything.
3. Stormtroopers should be inferior to the heroes.

So 3D in the stats they use and 5D in dedicated skills works well.
I agree with this. One good thing FFG did with their version was to make Stormtroopers superior to the average planetary cops, militia, and to Imperial Army troopers (yeah, guys like you see briefly in Solo). The basic characteristic profile of Stormtroopers was on par with starting PC, aside from an abnormally low Presence score. The only thing that kept Stormtroopers from matching PCs was the minion rules that limited their skills (when not acting in groups) and made it fairly easy to take them down quickly, even in large numbers.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Chris24601 on December 26, 2020, 12:51:54 PM
I noticed something too... that some confusion about competence too might be the result of edition differences.

3e (aka revised & expanded) gives Stormtroopers only 4D in blasters, but they omitted the line from 2e that gave them a 5D specialization in blaster rifles; putting them above both the Imperial Army Troopers (4D+1) and the sample Rebel Troopers (4D+2) in skill.

In fact Stormtroopers in 2e are also superior to Imp army troopers in Knowledge, Mechanical and the Technical attributes.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 26, 2020, 01:17:03 PM
I noticed something too... that some confusion about competence too might be the result of edition differences.

3e (aka revised & expanded) gives Stormtroopers only 4D in blasters, but they omitted the line from 2e that gave them a 5D specialization in blaster rifles; putting them above both the Imperial Army Troopers (4D+1) and the sample Rebel Troopers (4D+2) in skill.

In fact Stormtroopers in 2e are also superior to Imp army troopers in Knowledge, Mechanical and the Technical attributes.

Good point. I'm using the 1st edition rules. The reprint physical books, and I have access to PDFs of some of the sourcebooks.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: HappyDaze on December 26, 2020, 01:46:33 PM
I noticed something too... that some confusion about competence too might be the result of edition differences.

3e (aka revised & expanded) gives Stormtroopers only 4D in blasters, but they omitted the line from 2e that gave them a 5D specialization in blaster rifles; putting them above both the Imperial Army Troopers (4D+1) and the sample Rebel Troopers (4D+2) in skill.

In fact Stormtroopers in 2e are also superior to Imp army troopers in Knowledge, Mechanical and the Technical attributes.

Good point. I'm using the 1st edition rules. The reprint physical books, and I have access to PDFs of some of the sourcebooks.
There are several websites that claim to be legal and will provide you with access to PDFs of all of the sourcebooks.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 26, 2020, 02:01:54 PM
I noticed something too... that some confusion about competence too might be the result of edition differences.

3e (aka revised & expanded) gives Stormtroopers only 4D in blasters, but they omitted the line from 2e that gave them a 5D specialization in blaster rifles; putting them above both the Imperial Army Troopers (4D+1) and the sample Rebel Troopers (4D+2) in skill.

In fact Stormtroopers in 2e are also superior to Imp army troopers in Knowledge, Mechanical and the Technical attributes.

Good point. I'm using the 1st edition rules. The reprint physical books, and I have access to PDFs of some of the sourcebooks.
There are several websites that claim to be legal and will provide you with access to PDFs of all of the sourcebooks.

Yes. I'm not hurting for access to the books. I want to run 1st edition RAW partly out of nostalgia, and partly to see how the original rules hold up after all these years.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Eirikrautha on December 26, 2020, 04:09:30 PM
Yes. I'm not hurting for access to the books. I want to run 1st edition RAW partly out of nostalgia, and partly to see how the original rules hold up after all these years.

Let us know how it goes.  I'd like to get my group to give the rules a go (again... I have the original 1e books and we played when it first came out), but I don't really remember how it went when we played that long ago...
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2020, 03:48:17 AM
I hacked together a couple of reference sheets. Figured I'd post them if anyone wants to use them. (personal use only, yada yada)

(https://i.imgur.com/6Jvo093.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/kyl8HXD.png)
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Chris24601 on December 30, 2020, 08:04:30 AM
I’m curious on the damage chart; Is that a house rule or from one of the other D6 systems and imported?

Also with any hit always scoring a minimum result of stunned/shields blown; how does the system account for things like Mando taking multiple blaster strikes to his armor without any effect and also smaller scale attacks vs. larger scale vehicles?

By way of example on the latter; AT-STs have no shields, so every rock an Ewok successfully throws at one will cause at least a “controls ionized” result and it’s only got a few to lose before it’s shut down. The same for X-Wings versus Star Destroyers... how does scale interact with shields blown, because as written the Star Destroyer only has 3D of shields so three hits from Z-95 will absolutely remove all the ISD’s shields.

Basically, there has to some threshold where the target just soaks the hit with no meaningful damage or the system will absolutely fail to model Star Wars as depicted on screen.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: HappyDaze on December 30, 2020, 08:16:48 AM
I’m curious on the damage chart; Is that a house rule or from one of the other D6 systems and imported?

Also with any hit always scoring a minimum result of stunned/shields blown; how does the system account for things like Mando taking multiple blaster strikes to his armor without any effect and also smaller scale attacks vs. larger scale vehicles?

By way of example on the latter; AT-STs have no shields, so every rock an Ewok successfully throws at one will cause at least a “controls ionized” result and it’s only got a few to lose before it’s shut down. The same for X-Wings versus Star Destroyers... how does scale interact with shields blown, because as written the Star Destroyer only has 3D of shields so three hits from Z-95 will absolutely remove all the ISD’s shields.

Basically, there has to some threshold where the target just soaks the hit with no meaningful damage or the system will absolutely fail to model Star Wars as depicted on screen.
It's like you want a second edition or something. ;)
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Chris24601 on December 30, 2020, 08:45:10 AM
It's like you want a second edition or something. ;)
First edition damage? Is that what it is? I didn't get the core book until 2e, though I did have the 1e Sourcebook (and tramp freighters) so I was aware of using dice codes for speed, but I didn't realize the damage math had been so extensively changed.

EDIT: That said, I overall do feel the 2e damage rules much better reflect what we see on screen and are slightly less lethal to average STR PCs (a 5D blaster rifle averages 17.5 damage, rolling a 5 or less on 2D Strength is not rare and will kill if the damage roll is 15+... by contrast a 1 (critical mishap) result on 2D still needs a damage roll of 17 to outright kill and a 7 roll means you'd need a 23 on 5D damage to outright kill).
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2020, 01:01:06 PM
I’m curious on the damage chart; Is that a house rule or from one of the other D6 systems and imported?

Also with any hit always scoring a minimum result of stunned/shields blown; how does the system account for things like Mando taking multiple blaster strikes to his armor without any effect and also smaller scale attacks vs. larger scale vehicles?

By way of example on the latter; AT-STs have no shields, so every rock an Ewok successfully throws at one will cause at least a “controls ionized” result and it’s only got a few to lose before it’s shut down. The same for X-Wings versus Star Destroyers... how does scale interact with shields blown, because as written the Star Destroyer only has 3D of shields so three hits from Z-95 will absolutely remove all the ISD’s shields.

Basically, there has to some threshold where the target just soaks the hit with no meaningful damage or the system will absolutely fail to model Star Wars as depicted on screen.

It's like you have questions about a page of rules references without having the actual rulebook handy to look them up. :)

Yes, 1st Ed, RAW if you are hit with a blaster, even if you make your Strength roll against the Damage roll, you are going to take a stunned for one turn result. This tracks with the Original Trilogy, where I don't think anyone actually hit by a blaster didn't at least fall down. The Mandalorian is 30 years into the future at the time these rules came out. (I'm leaning towards making Beskar armor 2D protection with 1D Dex penalty, and ignore stun results, but I don't have to deal with it yet.)

Characters versus Vehicles rules, small arms only do 1D damage against vehicles. Heavy man-portable weapons like Repeating Blasters do 2D damage against vehicles. If the damage roll is less than half the vehicles Hull roll, it has no effect at all.

1st Ed doesn't even have hull or shield codes for the capital ships. The system isn't a fleet battle game.

Yes, these are all 1st Ed RAW tables and rules. The rules I think I'm going to need at the table, not a comprehensive collection of all the rules.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2020, 01:21:34 PM
I did a mock combat gauntlet a couple of days ago to get a feel for the system I put a Smuggler and a Brash Pilot with 2D in Blaster skill against an increasing horde of Stormtroopers.
1 Stormtrooper, 2 Stormtroopers, etc.
I gave up after they defeated the 6 Stormtrooper batch and hadn't taken a single hit.
After making hit rolls and determining who goes first, the defender gets to make a reaction roll, adding their dodge roll to the target number, while taking a 1D penalty for multiple actions. But reactions only penalize the subsequent reaction rolls since the attack roll has already been made.
This meant that a PC with 5D (ish) total skills would reliably hit at short range, while Stormtroopers with 3D in blaster hit about 50% of the time. And even if they hit, the character could roll a dodge with the reaction penalty adding 2D6 to the target number, which would cause the Stormtroopers to miss.

This is fine odds for an intro adventure. If the game turns into a campaign, I'm already thinking about veteran and elite Stormtroopers versions so they can keep up with the PCs skill levels.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
....
First edition damage? Is that what it is?

Yes. I'm not hurting for access to the books. I want to run 1st edition RAW partly out of nostalgia, and partly to see how the original rules hold up after all these years.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Bren on December 30, 2020, 04:45:14 PM
Basically, there has to some threshold where the target just soaks the hit with no meaningful damage or the system will absolutely fail to model Star Wars as depicted on screen.
Prior to 2E there was a modification to the damage chart in the Rules Companion for the first edition where if the strength resistance roll was greater than twice the damage done there was no effect (i.e. 2xDR < SR = no effect).
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Chris24601 on December 30, 2020, 05:10:47 PM
Basically, there has to some threshold where the target just soaks the hit with no meaningful damage or the system will absolutely fail to model Star Wars as depicted on screen.
Prior to 2E there was a modification to the damage chart in the Rules Companion for the first edition where if the strength resistance roll was greater than twice the damage done there was no effect (i.e. 2xDR < SR = no effect).
Yeah, something like that would do it. It just seemed such an odd thing even with just the OT for reference given things like firing on AT-STs/AT-ATs where it was clear the shots weren't even scratching them.

As I mentioned though, I hadn't realized that the damage rules had been so changed (the damage tables and effects of scale) between first and second edition since the people who introduced me to the system said it didn't much matter whether you got the 1e or 2e copy of the game because other than vehicle speed, there wasn't any meaningful difference between the 1e/2e rules.

Having now looked up the actual 1e rules I can see why you could mostly say that (the basics of rolling dice and how you built your character weren't all that different), but the difference in damage rules is actually really significant (as is basic stormtroopers having 5D in blaster rifles).

And now I know.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2020, 05:20:00 PM
Oh, I did think of one time a person soaked a blaster shot. In ROTJ when Luke got hit on his prosthetic hand.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2020, 05:22:18 PM
Basically, there has to some threshold where the target just soaks the hit with no meaningful damage or the system will absolutely fail to model Star Wars as depicted on screen.
Prior to 2E there was a modification to the damage chart in the Rules Companion for the first edition where if the strength resistance roll was greater than twice the damage done there was no effect (i.e. 2xDR < SR = no effect).
Yeah, something like that would do it. It just seemed such an odd thing even with just the OT for reference given things like firing on AT-STs/AT-ATs where it was clear the shots weren't even scratching them.

As I mentioned though, I hadn't realized that the damage rules had been so changed (the damage tables and effects of scale) between first and second edition since the people who introduced me to the system said it didn't much matter whether you got the 1e or 2e copy of the game because other than vehicle speed, there wasn't any meaningful difference between the 1e/2e rules.

Having now looked up the actual 1e rules I can see why you could mostly say that (the basics of rolling dice and how you built your character weren't all that different), but the difference in damage rules is actually really significant (as is basic stormtroopers having 5D in blaster rifles).

And now I know.

Oh yeah. There were lots of tweaks that added up. Wild dice and spending Character Points didn't exist in 1st. No shield or hull dice codes for capital ships. "Two X-Wings against a Star Destroyer?" Damage is much more deadly. I kinda like the idea that for humanoid types getting hit with a blaster is a big deal even if you make your Str check. We'll see how it plays out, if I ever get to GM it.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Slipshot762 on December 30, 2020, 08:20:51 PM
your example says adding to to hit with a dodge roll, in 2e star wars it replaces the original to hit even if lower unless it was a full reaction. a full reaction adds, but that is the only action you can take in that round.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 30, 2020, 09:20:42 PM
your example says adding to to hit with a dodge roll, in 2e star wars it replaces the original to hit even if lower unless it was a full reaction. a full reaction adds, but that is the only action you can take in that round.

Yea. I believe 2e uses a different initiative system. In 1e your skill roll is also your initiative, so you roll it before resolving actions. Thus reactions like dodging take the multiple action penatly but the attack action doesn't.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Slipshot762 on December 31, 2020, 04:08:28 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/Jm6n3Yg/Capture1.png) (https://ibb.co/n6drPXt)


trying to put up screenshot of how its done in 2e, it might be useful to you, bear with me.

eta
did 1e have combined actions rules? thats where a squad of say 9 stormtroopers attack as a single entity with a +1 pip per participant (3D in this example) that they can add to attack or damage roll however they see fit?
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on December 31, 2020, 12:55:01 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/Jm6n3Yg/Capture1.png) (https://ibb.co/n6drPXt)


trying to put up screenshot of how its done in 2e, it might be useful to you, bear with me.

eta
did 1e have combined actions rules? thats where a squad of say 9 stormtroopers attack as a single entity with a +1 pip per participant (3D in this example) that they can add to attack or damage roll however they see fit?

No. Combined actions were added in the Rules Companion, which was a kind of 1.5 edition.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 11, 2021, 01:33:03 AM
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s600x600/138324271_10223327620275299_187533294731127596_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4d0Eg05B2EgAX9UvTf6&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&tp=7&oh=405431dfe3dfaf2765262017402d72f3&oe=602094A0)

Got to play this earlier today. I'll see if I can find someplace to host the file for the adventure for download, but in the meantime...
Premise is, the characters are prisoners of an Imperial Remnant faction, and being held in an asteroid detention center. While cooling their heels, an Astromech droid enters the detention hall and opens the cell doors. It plays a hologram informing them that the droid is a spy for New Republic Intelligence, and they're giving them the chance to escape if they return the droid and the information it carries to them.

So one of the players was my 9 year old nephew, and I wanted to be pretty lax with the rules, more focused on fun that getting every modifier correct.

First off, I dropped the declaration system for initiative pretty quick. It was too clunky and didn't flow well for me.
I wound up having the players declare actions and then resolve them right after declaring. I'm going to formalize this system later, but my intent is to have the sides roll off for initiative, and the winning side gets to decide who goes first. Multiple actions are decided when the character or NPC goes, and dice penalties for multiple actions accumulate from there.
IE a character's turn comes up, they declare a shot at a Stormtrooper, the Stormtrooper declares a dodge, or a shot back, or both a dodge and a shot at the -1D penalty for multiple actions.
If the character dodges later in the turn, they have the benefit of their first action at no penalty, and the dodge takes the -1D for multiple actions.

Nephew playing a wookie did a lot of brawling, and throwing Stormtroopers at other Stormtroopers. I was fine with this, as Wookies are pretty burly, and it was fun for him.

What happens when a character dodges, still gets hit, and then is prone? At the moment, I simply ruled that the prone bonus against ranged combat didn't apply until the end of the turn. Going forward, I'm going to rule that the prone condition overrides the dodge roll, since the character is no longer dodging but is fallen prone. This would not have changed the combat, since the dodger was a Stormtrooper seargent, and the character (my brother playing a Merc character) firing at him had spent a Force Point so he could roll a bunch of shots really well.

The wookie character did get hit by a Stormtrooper in melee combat, and since even a resisted damage roll means the character is knocked prone, he got knocked down. I like that, as Wookies are big and strong, but that shouldn't mean they can waltz through an adventure shrugging off any attacks.

We ended the session just before the starfighter combat part, since I had also brought an X-Box One for my nephew and he got distracted at that point. We'll pick the game back up there next time we play.

As the picture I linked suggests, I wanted to use miniatures, and that helped tremendously in deciding who could do what to who. Since playing 4th edition D&D, I'm really a fan of using miniatures even for games I usually haven't used them for in the past.

So it was fun. I'm probably going to look into bringing some 2nd ed rules into the game, but I'd like to keep it as 1st ed as I can. Probably start with the additional damage condition that rolling twice the strength versus the damage roll means no effect. And looking into if there's any rules on dual wielding blaster pistols.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 18, 2021, 03:55:44 PM
I talk a lot about combat because Star Wars involves a lot of combat. The rules for skills seem just fine. Roll a bunch of dice and beat a target number. And non-combat interactions are pretty much the same no matter the system.

Looking ahead, I'm considering the scaling system.

In 1e, scaling in dirt simple. You roll just 1d6 for damage against vehicles, or 2d6 if you have a big repeating blaster. Vehicles double their damage code against character scale targets.
But the Companion has a different system, and introduces a bunch of different scales.
Character - Speeder - Walker - Starfighter - Capital Ship - Death Star
And a "dice cap" system, where if you roll higher than a set number, the dice is discarded. Affects damage, attack and hull/strength rolls depending on what's being compared.
Ex. A character shooting at a walker discards any damage dice that roll higher than a 2. This means fewer dice will actually be counted, and the ones that do are low rolls.
This... isn't bad, but it's really clunky.
The walker attacks back, and it's attack roll has a dice cap of 4. So it's harder for the walker to score a hit on a character.
Etc.

The fan created expanded edition has a sliding dice scale, you add or subtract the dice difference between scales.

None of them particularly appeal to me. The Rules Companion dice cap system is the closest to 1st edition, so I'll probably just use that and wish that WEG had come up with a simpler system when comparing different scales.

I'm also pulling in the 2d ed rule that rolling Str x2 greater than the damage roll means the attack has no effect.

Might get a chance to play this weekend. If we do, we'll finish up the intro adventure, and then move on to delivering the droid to NR Intelligence, and then open up the campaign and make it a little less linear.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: HappyDaze on January 18, 2021, 06:19:34 PM
I talk a lot about combat because Star Wars involves a lot of combat. The rules for skills seem just fine. Roll a bunch of dice and beat a target number. And non-combat interactions are pretty much the same no matter the system.

Looking ahead, I'm considering the scaling system.

In 1e, scaling in dirt simple. You roll just 1d6 for damage against vehicles, or 2d6 if you have a big repeating blaster. Vehicles double their damage code against character scale targets.
But the Companion has a different system, and introduces a bunch of different scales.
Character - Speeder - Walker - Starfighter - Capital Ship - Death Star
And a "dice cap" system, where if you roll higher than a set number, the dice is discarded. Affects damage, attack and hull/strength rolls depending on what's being compared.
Ex. A character shooting at a walker discards any damage dice that roll higher than a 2. This means fewer dice will actually be counted, and the ones that do are low rolls.
This... isn't bad, but it's really clunky.
The walker attacks back, and it's attack roll has a dice cap of 4. So it's harder for the walker to score a hit on a character.
Etc.

The fan created expanded edition has a sliding dice scale, you add or subtract the dice difference between scales.

None of them particularly appeal to me. The Rules Companion dice cap system is the closest to 1st edition, so I'll probably just use that and wish that WEG had come up with a simpler system when comparing different scales.

I'm also pulling in the 2d ed rule that rolling Str x2 greater than the damage roll means the attack has no effect.

Might get a chance to play this weekend. If we do, we'll finish up the intro adventure, and then move on to delivering the droid to NR Intelligence, and then open up the campaign and make it a little less linear.
Scale dice modifiers replaced die caps starting with 2e. It's not a fan created system. It actually works really well in play.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Spinachcat on January 18, 2021, 07:16:20 PM
In light of how worthless and imbecilic Star Wars has become, my best suggestion for a SW game is to recreate the setting as your own, either via alternate history or locations far from the movies (both time & space).

Here's something I've been mulling over for any future SW campaign: using the original Marvel comics from 1977 up to the release of Empire Strikes Back as canon. AKA, what did the old school Marvel guys imagine would be the future storylines based on the original film?

They are all online too:
http://readallcomics.com/star-wars-v1-001/ (http://readallcomics.com/star-wars-v1-001/)

Another option is the 1988 Dark Horse Star Wars
http://readallcomics.com/star-wars-dark-horse-comics-001/ (http://readallcomics.com/star-wars-dark-horse-comics-001/)

THIS is a recent find for me. It is THE STAR WARS, aka the comic version of George Lucas' original script for the movie that differs significantly from the 1977 film.
http://readallcomics.com/category/the-star-wars/ (http://readallcomics.com/category/the-star-wars/)

If I were to do a SW campaign, I'd personally love to do something based on TSW, and having the comics would allow me to show pics of everything in the game. The hurdle would be the player expectations. SW means different things to different people so the players would need to be shaken down in advance so we're all on the same page.


Make them actually use small unit tactics. A 'squad' of 9 stormtroopers will have one with a support weapon like a repeating blaster or grenade launcher or mortar. Have them use covering fire. Make full use of their communications so that they work as a unit. Allow them to have a sniper providing covering fire. Use grenades. Have a scout trooper with speeder bike providing support.

I ran WEG D6 1e RAW and I had no trouble with the troopers because of this aspect. Also, remember those com units call in more troopers and more support vehicles. Star Destroyers aren't just orbital. They can hover OVER the area and provide support.

The players LOVE to one shot or two shot troopers - and that fits the movies perfectly - but even Han and Chewie ran when outnumbered. Players faced with small unit tactics AND a stream of support units will become smarter about combat. No need to change any stats.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 18, 2021, 08:11:36 PM
In light of how worthless and imbecilic Star Wars has become, my best suggestion for a SW game is to recreate the setting as your own, either via alternate history or locations far from the movies (both time & space).

I set this current campaign in the Mandalorian time frame. Because I like The Mandalorian, and there's a lot of stuff being explored by the series that I can use as inspiration.

I've never had a problem with the lore interferring with my games in any setting based on a non-game IP. I just carve out a corner of the setting for my own thing, and keep all the cool stuff from the IP and ignore the stuff I don't like.

Quote

THIS is a recent find for me. It is THE STAR WARS, aka the comic version of George Lucas' original script for the movie that differs significantly from the 1977 film.
http://readallcomics.com/category/the-star-wars/ (http://readallcomics.com/category/the-star-wars/)

Yeah, I put that on my Amazon wish list, which means I'll probably never get around to actually buying it.  :-

The pre-movie scripts are a fun place to mine ideas. But there's some goofiness too. Rebel boy scouts riding around on rocket pogo sticks...
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 18, 2021, 08:19:14 PM
Scale dice modifiers replaced die caps starting with 2e. It's not a fan created system. It actually works really well in play.

I have a copy of the 2nd edition rules, (the blue book) and it still has the dice cap system. Was it later in 2nd edition that they changed it?
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: Slipshot762 on January 19, 2021, 03:07:51 AM
I further revise the 2e revised scale rules, making it (w/o opening my treasure chest and checking binder) something like:

character 0D (meat scale)

light vehicle 3D (swoops, bikes, unarmored land speeders)

standard vehicle 5D (combat speeders & light tanks)

heavy vehicle 8D (walkers, heavy tanks, starfighters, space transports)

Frigate 12D (light capitol ships & large freighters)

Cruiser 16D (ship o' the line, ISD, MonCal cruisers)

Dreadnought 20D (heavy battleships, SSD, Eclipse)

Death Star 30D (planetary scaled objects)

Larger scale gets the scale dice difference to resist or inflict damage wrt to the smaller scale object, while the smaller scale object gets same bonus to hit and to dodge.

so snowspeeder on hoth at 5D scale (attacking 8D scale walkers) would get (8D-5D=3D) 3D to hit and dodge vs walkers, but walkers get 3D to soak and as extra damage if they hit.

I've used the scale systems from both 2e and 2e revised (and the one from D6 space/adventure/fantasy) which is a whole number rather than a die code; I feel that 2e revised is the better mechanism (with the whole number of D6 space being just as good mechanically) but its default groupings were not fine enough for my tastes, especially the lumping of all capitol scale vessels into one scale group.

While touching the topic of scale this is the scale breakdown I think I'm going with for converting D20 stuff into D6 fantasy:

Fine      -4D / +12 Dodge/-12 Soak
Diminutive   -3D / +9 Dodge/-9 Soak
Tiny      -2D / +6 Dodge/-6 Soak
Small      -1D / +3 Dodge/-3 Soak
Medium      0 / Baseline for all Dodge/Soak adjustments
Large      +1D / -3 Dodge/+3 Soak
Huge      +2D / -6 Dodge/+6 Soak
Gargantuan   +3D / -9 Dodge/+9 Soak
Colossal   +4D / -12 Dodge/+12 Soak
so a halfling (-1D) vs Giant (+2D) would get 3D to hit or dodge; while the giant gets 3D to damage or to resist the halflings damage.
Title: Re: D6 Star Wars, making an adventure.
Post by: HappyDaze on January 19, 2021, 05:55:02 AM
Scale dice modifiers replaced die caps starting with 2e. It's not a fan created system. It actually works really well in play.

I have a copy of the 2nd edition rules, (the blue book) and it still has the dice cap system. Was it later in 2nd edition that they changed it?
I know it was in 2e Revised & Expanded, but I thought it started with the first 2e. I haven't looked at the first 2e book in well over 25 years though, so I can't say for sure.