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Author Topic: D20 Shaman Homebrew  (Read 3956 times)

Sojourner Judas

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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2006, 03:37:12 PM »
Quote from: the ultimate nullifier
Question:

Based on this:

If you were going to make it a Diplomacy check (and make diplomacy a class skill for them) by what factor would you raise the base to determine the DC.

OR

Would a CHA-based Will save represent that better?
I revised it a bit when I presented it in the final D&D base class, but the gist of it is that accepting a spirit into yourself is a fortitude save because it is physically strenuous, as I mentioned above. Any negotiation with the spirit is generally handled by performing the proper ceremony, and if you fail a fortitude save it's because you're physically too exhausted to cram another spirit into yourself.

As such, I wouldn't say that social-based skills would modify this at all.
Quote from: the ultimate nullifier
Also, what would be the best way to come up with a guideline by class level of how many levels of spells you should aim for to be "average" (i.e. have a good chance of succeeding).

I'm just afraid that the learning curve of balancing it mathwise might be too much for some players.

It seems to me it would make sense to start with higher ranked spirits and then petition decreasingly ranked ones until you are done.
Well, bear in mind that the first Fortitude check bears no penalties, it's the later ones that have penalties involved.

Thus I'd say generally it's best to start small, as if you do your first petition on a high-ranked spell, that's a hefty penalty on all subsequent ones.
 

el-remmen

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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2006, 05:11:50 PM »
Quote from: Sojourner Judas
I revised it a bit when I presented it in the final D&D base class, but the gist of it is that accepting a spirit into yourself is a fortitude save because it is physically strenuous, as I mentioned above. Any negotiation with the spirit is generally handled by performing the proper ceremony, and if you fail a fortitude save it's because you're physically too exhausted to cram another spirit into yourself.

As such, I wouldn't say that social-based skills would modify this at all.Well, bear in mind that the first Fortitude check bears no penalties, it's the later ones that have penalties involved.


Yeah, I get that - but that is a flavor description.  If I wanted to change the flavor description for my version and make it related to social skill instead, do you have a suggesting for raising the DC?

Quote from: Sojourner Judas

Thus I'd say generally it's best to start small, as if you do your first petition on a high-ranked spell, that's a hefty penalty on all subsequent ones.


I don't get this either, if I have access to a rank 5 spirit, why not do him first and make sure I get those 10 spell levels without a check and then do several lower ones?
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Sojourner Judas

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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2006, 05:20:20 PM »
Quote from: the ultimate nullifier
I don't get this either, if I have access to a rank 5 spirit, why not do him first and make sure I get those 10 spell levels without a check and then do several lower ones?
Well it's just how the math works out more than anything. If you petition him first, your subsequent spirits will be much harder to petition. Fluffwise it's because there's already a significant strain on your body from channeling a powerful spirit.
 

Chacal

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« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2006, 08:49:27 AM »
Repost from LL :

I really like it, too. What kind of weapon or armor proficiency does he have (EDIT : I'll look at the shaman Base Class)?
Could they be given by spirits too ?
A few feats or skill bonus could be given by spirits. Maybe you could have spirits that give fewer spells and more abilities. Overall nice job, I'd really like to see it in play.


Chacal
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el-remmen

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« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2006, 09:17:46 AM »
When I am done with my version of the witch class based on SJ's Shaman I will post it here (or at least a link to it).

Flavor-wise it is slightly different as it is meant to replace the sorcerer.
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Sojourner Judas

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« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2006, 10:40:16 AM »
Quote from: the ultimate nullifier
Yeah, I get that - but that is a flavor description.  If I wanted to change the flavor description for my version and make it related to social skill instead, do you have a suggesting for raising the DC?
Hmm. In that case I'd say Will saves work out well, possibly with synergy bonuses for Diplomacy or Knowledge (Demonology).

If it's social-based, I'd change the mechanic a little and actually apply the spirit's rating on the first roll, because you're haggling with the spirit, not cramming it in your body.

Given that, I'd almost change the mechanic by which the difficulty ramps up as well. Give it more emphasis on what spirits will get along with what other ones. So for example if you're petitioning a spirit whose ethos jives with the ones you've already petitioned, it's just the spirit's rating that's the penalty to the roll. If you're petitioning a spirit who's less cooperative, the penalty is both its rating plus the ratings of any spirits you've petitioned who oppose it. It's a social or will roll, so you're actively convincing the spirits to work together.

I can't think of a quick and dirty way to make the math work on that one. Maybe use what domains the spirit has to calculate it. Give each domain an opposing domain on a chart, and say that one opposing domain gives the spirit's rating in penalty, and two opposing domains means the match is completely incompatible.

It's something that now that I think of it, I might include in the Shaman, as it's easier than all that "so-and-so will not walk with whatsisface" dealie. I was basing those off of the actual animal spirits, but basing it off of domain means you can make spirits up much more quickly.
 

el-remmen

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« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2006, 12:15:34 PM »
I am going with a CHA-based Fort save - not so much "convincing" as it is handling a spirit being in your body but using your sense of self to contain them.

I also am dividing the spirits (and aspects - i have included some "spirits" that are actually aspects of divine and other extraplanar beings) into groups.  Thus you cannot have spirits of a celestial origin at the same time as fiendish. And certain elemental spirits cannot be summoned at the same time as their elemental opposition, etc. . .
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Cyberzombie

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« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2006, 01:38:15 PM »
Interesting.  It'll be neat to see your version, Nullifier.  :)
 

Sojourner Judas

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« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2006, 02:36:12 PM »
I'm eager to see it as well. Perhaps we need an RPG Site Netbook of Classes to house things like this.
 

el-remmen

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« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2006, 10:10:10 AM »
Any ideas on the problem with zero level spells?

I think there are bunch of zero-level spells these guys should be able to cast to cover the "serving the community" part of the witch role (mid-wife, advisor, healer, love potions, etc) which include mending, detecting poison or magic, etc. . .

However, since they only get spells from domains, what do you think is the best way to handle with out changing how domains work.

One idea was that each spirit also grants access to 3 or 4 0-level spells.
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Xavier Lang

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« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2006, 10:21:41 AM »
Quote from: the ultimate nullifier
Any ideas on the problem with zero level spells?

I think there are bunch of zero-level spells these guys should be able to cast to cover the "serving the community" part of the witch role (mid-wife, advisor, healer, love potions, etc) which include mending, detecting poison or magic, etc. . .

However, since they only get spells from domains, what do you think is the best way to handle with out changing how domains work.

One idea was that each spirit also grants access to 3 or 4 0-level spells.


1.  Via spiritual residue the shaman can do a few basic things, or 0-level spells
2.  Have 0-level spells granted by tiny/insignificant spirits that don't count towards the total or only count partially, such as 1 or 2 per level can be used without affecting your total.
 

Cyberzombie

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« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2006, 10:56:39 AM »
Personally, I'd give them access to all cleric and druid 0-levels and give them X uses per day of them for free.  Tying them to spirits isn't a bad idea, but 0th level spells are just so minor that I think they should be able to cast them even without a spirit around.