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Author Topic: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?  (Read 546 times)

Marchand

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Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« on: May 13, 2022, 09:42:13 AM »
Of my two FLGSs, one is selling Cyberpunk Red (and not 2020), the other Cyberpunk 2020 (reprint I guess) for about US$20 cheaper.

Which would you go for?
"If the English surrender, it'll be a long war!"
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Godsmonkey

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2022, 10:02:26 AM »
Of my two FLGSs, one is selling Cyberpunk Red (and not 2020), the other Cyberpunk 2020 (reprint I guess) for about US$20 cheaper.

Which would you go for?

Both are similar, However:

Combat in 2020 is more lethal.
NetRunning Rules in CP Red is more streamlined
Roles special abilities are more balanced in Red. In 2020, solos were OP.
The timeline in Red is brought forward to 2045, so the lore is expanded.
There are more supplements to 2020 due to its age. However they can be ported over pretty easy.


Both are good games. 2020 however at $20 less might be the way to go.

Jaeger

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2022, 03:39:56 PM »
Anyone able to  educate me on the differences between the standard 2020 d10 and the exploding d10 dice of CP RED?

Rtal hasn't put up a 'dice odds' table to show the chances vs. various target numbers. So I'm curious about the difference, as I am no where near math savvy enough to figure it out myself.
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Godsmonkey

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2022, 04:51:18 PM »
Anyone able to  educate me on the differences between the standard 2020 d10 and the exploding d10 dice of CP RED?

Rtal hasn't put up a 'dice odds' table to show the chances vs. various target numbers. So I'm curious about the difference, as I am no where near math savvy enough to figure it out myself.

P130

"▶ Critical Success ◀
When you roll a natural 10 on your d10, you've
scored a Critical Success. Roll another 1d10 and add
the result to your first roll. If you roll another 10, you
do not score another Critical Success."

The die does not continue to explode like early Shadowrun or Savage Worlds. What this does is allows someone with a weak combination of Stat+Skill+D10 to get really lucky on a roll.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2022, 05:02:06 PM »
Of my two FLGSs, one is selling Cyberpunk Red (and not 2020), the other Cyberpunk 2020 (reprint I guess) for about US$20 cheaper.

Which would you go for?

Cyberpunk 2020 plus the net running rules from ... Fuck my ageing brain, it's a website with lots of "fixing" of fuzion AND cyberpunk on it.
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Marchand

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2022, 11:21:52 PM »
Anyone able to  educate me on the differences between the standard 2020 d10 and the exploding d10 dice of CP RED?

So in CP2020 there is no exploding die, and if your stat+skill is low enough vs difficulty you're screwed?

Not sure if that is a feature or a bug from my PoV. Depends how "cinematic" you want to go I suppose. 10% chance of an over-the-top outcome is actually pretty high. It would probably come up more than once per session. Each PC could probably expect it to happen to them.

I take it they don't implode on a 1?
"If the English surrender, it'll be a long war!"
- Scottish soldier on the beach at Dunkirk

"Sorry, we don't have the facility to take you all prisoner."
Lt-Col John "Johnny" Frost, responding to German offer to discuss surrender terms, Arnhem, Sept 1944

Ratman_tf

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2022, 12:44:21 AM »
Anyone able to  educate me on the differences between the standard 2020 d10 and the exploding d10 dice of CP RED?

So in CP2020 there is no exploding die, and if your stat+skill is low enough vs difficulty you're screwed?

Not sure if that is a feature or a bug from my PoV. Depends how "cinematic" you want to go I suppose. 10% chance of an over-the-top outcome is actually pretty high. It would probably come up more than once per session. Each PC could probably expect it to happen to them.

I take it they don't implode on a 1?

My copy of CP 2020 has the critical 10, add a dice rule, and a critical 1 roll on the fumble table rule. 1-4 on the fumble table is a simple failure, so it's not quite 10% chance of spectacular failure.

Getting an additional d10 may or may not result in a spectacular success. Depends on the difficulty and the skill value.
An auto-fail on 1 bothers me. I'm pretty sure we ignored that rule.
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Ratman_tf

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2022, 12:47:08 AM »
Of my two FLGSs, one is selling Cyberpunk Red (and not 2020), the other Cyberpunk 2020 (reprint I guess) for about US$20 cheaper.

Which would you go for?

I have both. I've played and GMed CP2020, and consider it fine, with some small tweaks. Like armor takes damage on any result, not just if you penetrate it.

Red I haven't played or GMed yet, but I find things I like, like the revised netrunning rules, and things I dislike, like they have too many damn range bands for ranged attacks.

Given a choice, I'd go for 2020, but really it's close enough so the two are mostly compatible. The core rules and values are the same, I think.
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Marchand

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2022, 05:50:49 AM »
Agree, 10% chance of an autofail sounds a bit much.

Anyone going to suggest CP2013??
"If the English surrender, it'll be a long war!"
- Scottish soldier on the beach at Dunkirk

"Sorry, we don't have the facility to take you all prisoner."
Lt-Col John "Johnny" Frost, responding to German offer to discuss surrender terms, Arnhem, Sept 1944

soundchaser

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2022, 10:06:39 AM »
Agree, 10% chance of an autofail sounds a bit much.

Anyone going to suggest CP2013??

I see what you did there:)

(No, there is not a false dilemma here).

HappyDaze

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2022, 10:17:14 AM »
I remember loving CP2020 in the 90s, but I stopped playing it and sold off the books two decades ago. I bought CPRed about a year ago. I didn't find it rekindled my interest in cyberpunk,  so it's sat on the shelf untouched since my read through. To be fair, I don't know that it's a fault of CPRed; I may have been just as unmoved by a reread of CP2020. The game hasn't really changed all that much, so it's likely I have.

migo

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2022, 05:20:11 PM »
I remember loving CP2020 in the 90s, but I stopped playing it and sold off the books two decades ago. I bought CPRed about a year ago. I didn't find it rekindled my interest in cyberpunk,  so it's sat on the shelf untouched since my read through. To be fair, I don't know that it's a fault of CPRed; I may have been just as unmoved by a reread of CP2020. The game hasn't really changed all that much, so it's likely I have.

I think also that CP was a product of its time. We're already at 2022, and 2020 (and 2013) didn't end up being like it was envisioned in the future. So it goes from being futuristic sci-fi to something like Jules Verne - it's much more niche.

Marchand

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2022, 10:54:31 PM »
Anyone going to suggest CP2013??

I see what you did there:)

(No, there is not a false dilemma here).

Haha, no disrespect of CP2013 intended. It is the version I am most familiar with (although still not much) as a friend had a copy years ago. I liked the combat system: instead of hit points, you would cross-reference damage to body type to get a wound severity. Flesh Wound, Severe Wound. And it had hit locations. So if my PC gets a flesh wound on the left arm, I know what that means. I think CP RED went back to hit points. I heard CP2020 has wound boxes or something which also sounds a bit hit-point-ish.

On a similar note, I see nobody is suggesting CP 3rd edition!

I think also that CP was a product of its time. We're already at 2022, and 2020 (and 2013) didn't end up being like it was envisioned in the future. So it goes from being futuristic sci-fi to something like Jules Verne - it's much more niche.

Sure in terms of tech assumptions. RED is bound to be more up to date, so there is a point in its favour. More broadly though, I don't think anyone really expected the world to turn out like in the settings right? I mean, I've never played Cyberpunk 2077, but if I did, I guess I wouldn't come away thinking it was a convincing piece of futurology. I tend to toss out settings anyway and do my own because I enjoy it.

Maybe my dream version is a mashup of CP RED with CP 2013 combat, if I could find the books for less than ridiculous prices.
"If the English surrender, it'll be a long war!"
- Scottish soldier on the beach at Dunkirk

"Sorry, we don't have the facility to take you all prisoner."
Lt-Col John "Johnny" Frost, responding to German offer to discuss surrender terms, Arnhem, Sept 1944

amacris

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2022, 07:04:58 PM »
Cyberpunk 2020 is an underappreciated masterpiece. I ran the game for many years as my #1 preference. I wrote articles for INTERFACE magazine in high school and ran CP2020 for R. Talsorian at GenCon. I love that game so much.

Cyberpunk 2020 had automatic failures on 1, with a high chance to botch, as a very deliberate game mechanism that contributed to lethality and danger! The mechanic meant that no matter how good your 'punk was, he could always fuck up. As a result, as a matter of statistics, every mission would eventually go catastrophically wrong. But the bad guys could also colossally botch, too. And that is what made Cyberpunk 2020 so, so, so, so much fun.




Spinachcat

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Re: Cyberpunk Red or 2020?
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2022, 07:44:58 PM »
CP 2020 was an A+ RPG. I'd play it again in a hot second.

CP 2013 was excellent as well, though perhaps a bit clunkier. I haven't read it in years, but returning to the original might be great fun!

CP Red looks weaksauce. I haven't played it so maybe it works better at the table that what I've read so far.