Custom Monsters

joriandrake · December 11, 2017, 12:37:32 PM

If my opinion matters something, I didn't read Bren's comment like that either.

Dumarest · December 11, 2017, 12:41:29 PM

Quote from: rgrove0172;1012959I was responding to the post that seemed to imply that 'standard' monsters in the book were sacred in someway, as if making your own or changing them was inferior.

By the Holy Writ of Gygax, if you change anything you're no longer playing D&D! The Sorcerer's Scroll has spoken!

joriandrake · December 11, 2017, 12:44:40 PM

Quote from: Dumarest;1012991By the Holy Writ of Gygax, if you change anything you're no longer playing D&D! The Sorcerer's Scroll has spoken!

That's not true.

...I kinda feel like I semi-agree and semi-disagree with Grove here. Am I a centrist? A "Despicable Neutral"?

Spoiler

Willie the Duck · December 11, 2017, 12:48:44 PM

Quote from: joriandrake;1012992That's not true.

Please tell me you knew Dumarest was joking.

joriandrake · December 11, 2017, 12:51:44 PM

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1012995Please tell me you knew Dumarest was joking.

... lack of coffee, being tired, too much weirdness discussed in threads, still being Hungarian, so... I wasn't sure? o.O

DavetheLost · December 11, 2017, 12:54:51 PM

Quote from: Dumarest;1012991By the Holy Writ of Gygax, if you change anything you're no longer playing D&D! The Sorcerer's Scroll has spoken!

No, Sorcerer's Scroll was in Dragon. Wasn't that statement in the DMG? Because I'm pretty sure Gary Gygax actually did publish exactly this sort of pompous ass proclamation, maybe even more than once.

Having no access to the man besides what he published, especially in the AD&D rulebooks, he did not come off very well.

DavetheLost · December 11, 2017, 12:55:44 PM

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1012995Please tell me you knew Dumarest was joking.

It's not a joke if Gygax actually said it.

Bren · December 11, 2017, 01:48:06 PM

Quote from: DavetheLost;1013005It's not a joke if Gygax actually said it.

I read it as a joke on two levels.

DIY Gary Gygax wouldn't have said anything as crazy totalitarian as that. So it has to be a joke. Later "let's standardize D&D for conventions and put up IP barriers because money" Gary did say something like that. Which was silly of him. So again a joke. But the joke was on Gary. Sort of.

Willie the Duck · December 11, 2017, 02:51:28 PM

Quote from: joriandrake;1012999... lack of coffee, being tired, too much weirdness discussed in threads, still being Hungarian, so... I wasn't sure? o.O

Right, forgot. Sorry. As someone who has failed to learn both German and Slovak, I can only applaud anyone who'd even try to carry on a conversation like this in a non-native tongue.

Quote from: DavetheLost;1013003No, Sorcerer's Scroll was in Dragon. Wasn't that statement in the DMG? Because I'm pretty sure Gary Gygax actually did publish exactly this sort of pompous ass proclamation, maybe even more than once.

Having no access to the man besides what he published, especially in the AD&D rulebooks, he did not come off very well.

Quote from: Bren;1013037I read it as a joke on two levels.

DIY Gary Gygax wouldn't have said anything as crazy totalitarian as that. So it has to be a joke. Later "let's standardize D&D for conventions and put up IP barriers because money" Gary did say something like that. Which was silly of him. So again a joke. But the joke was on Gary. Sort of.

Yes yes, we can clearly see different priorities and expressed personality in the man as he appears in print, depending on timeframe. IRL Gary undoubtedly was flawed in his own ways (he was, after all, a real person). But the need to put the man on a pedestal and then (like any celebrity) proceed to find (real or manufactured) flaws in them to drag him back down seems so ghoulish and mean-spirited on our part. Why can't he just be a man (one without a PR department, and who should have occasionally held his tongue, just like all of us)?

joriandrake · December 11, 2017, 03:21:17 PM

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1013060Right, forgot. Sorry. As someone who has failed to learn both German and Slovak, I can only applaud anyone who'd even try to carry on a conversation like this in a non-native tongue.

No worries, btw sarcasm is another thing that translates badly over via internet, just to pre-empt problems with that.

rawma · December 11, 2017, 08:29:05 PM

Quote from: Bren;1012835Why don't you tell me what you think a standard monster is?

Oh, oh wait I know the answer to this one.

You don't think there is any such thing as a standard anything. It's all smoke, mirrors, and GM whim, right? :rolleyes:

I think my earlier suggestion, that rgrove172 wants to portray everyone who disagreed with him in the earlier thread as religiously devoted to their game books, is looking more likely. If he can't get an actual gotcha, he's going to make one up.

Bren · December 11, 2017, 10:12:10 PM

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1013060Why can't he just be a man (one without a PR department, and who should have occasionally held his tongue, just like all of us)?

I see no reason he can't be considered just a man.Looking at Gary Gygax as a fallible human being is not inconsistent with finding the comment humorous for either reason I mentioned.

rgrove0172 · December 11, 2017, 10:15:15 PM

Quote from: Bren;1012986Which one of the two sentences that I wrote sounds like I'm talking about something sacred?

"I've no problem with there being bigger or tougher orcs, gnolls, ogres, gargoyles, or what have you."
"But once you change the hit dice from the standard monster hit dice you aren't using a standard monster."
You read my post correctly and as I intended it. I did not think what I wrote was at all ambiguous or inscrutable so I'm a bit perplex how rgrove is reading something diametrically the opposite of what I meant from what I wrote.

How do you NOT get that from sentence 2? Its pretty blatant.. Standard Monster should be italicized and capitalized its so clear.

rgrove0172 · December 11, 2017, 10:17:35 PM

But please, stick a fork in this one and let it die. Im exhausted. You guys win... again. Yeah!

Bren · December 11, 2017, 10:28:02 PM

Quote from: rgrove0172;1013163How do you NOT get that from sentence 2? Its pretty blatant.. Standard Monster should be italicized and capitalized its so clear.

Because things that are standard* and things that should be treated as sacred or as revealed truths aren't even in the same section of the galaxy.

* Standard i.e. the norm, the mode, the default, or pick some other word. Here maybe the Willie the Duck can explain what "standard" means in this context.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1012946Would it help if we use the term "book standard" to clarify that we are simply talking about what the book puts forth as stats, and not attach any additional cachet to it?

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1012979'Standard Monster,' 'provided adversaries,' 'by-the-book versions,... it's all the same as long as we agree on what we're talking about.