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Author Topic: Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?  (Read 3256 times)

ZetaRidley

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Title says it all. I think most people are unhappy with how WoTC is handling current political situations, but all that aside its likely we'll see an new edition in a few years.

I think I've played just about every edition of D&D, including BECMI. Personally, I would like to see THAC0 make a come back in some form. And 3rd editions skill system. And some art in the style of 2nd and 4th edition. But that's just me. I know there are a lot of definitions as to what D&D is, and it differs for many people.

What would you like to see?

Zalman

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2020, 10:38:16 am »
Hm, well whatever it is, I'm certainly not waiting around for WoTC to publish it! As for style, I like something with the complexity and layout around B/X levels, with most of the content-based conceits from 1e represented in some form.
Zal

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oggsmash

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2020, 10:42:55 am »
Honestly, Like DCC.  It seems quite a few concepts were taken from DCC.  I am not familiar with every alternate rule or add on (especially in 4th and 2nd edition, the first did not look at all, and 2nd edition came out just before time in the military and then all my time being taken up working after) in all editions, so I guess DCC could have been derived from stuff that was circling D&D.   But in many ways, DCC was more D&D than D&D to me.  At least a most definitely gygax influenced D&D.

Scrivener of Doom

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2020, 10:52:23 am »
Post-MM3 4E.

I'm easily pleased.
Cheers
Scrivener of Doom

Chris24601

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2020, 10:55:50 am »
Since I'm nearly done writing my own system that's, let's call it D&D adjacent, my ideal 6e would be that Hasbro pays me for my system and implements it as 6e.

If that can't happen then my choice is that 6e be a slightly cleaned up 5e mechanically, but go full retard on the wokeness. The combo of stuff that makes anyone outside of CHAZ/CHOP uncomfortable and offering nothing new to those who might buy it for the crunch alone should allow anyone with an ounce of innovation and not drowning in SJW kool-ade to compete in the market.

ZetaRidley

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2020, 10:56:58 am »
Quote from: Scrivener of Doom;1135803
Post-MM3 4E.

I'm easily pleased.

Interesting opinion. Why specifically 4e? I had the books after the launch, wasn't the biggest fan but didn't out and out hate it either.

Opaopajr

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2020, 11:03:14 am »
It is mostly already published: 2e with plenty of 1e & OSR content mixed in like a salad, DIY/Optional sub-systems as dressing to taste. :) I am done and content. The past is a better place than the future or the present, apotheosis achieved. :p
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
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insubordinate polyhedral

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2020, 11:07:51 am »
Quote from: Opaopajr;1135807
It is mostly already published: 2e with plenty of 1e & OSR content mixed in like a salad, DIY/Optional sub-systems as dressing to taste. :) I am done and content. The past is a better place than the future or the present, apotheosis achieved. :p

Do you use the 2e core books for this, or something else? I finally got a chance to try to use my 2e Player's Guide and man is that thing rough.

Opaopajr

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2020, 11:15:52 am »
The 2e Player's Handbook is pretty easy to grasp if you understand it is once-removed from High Gygaxian with a bit of Mere Mortal Vulgate rules organization. :D That and like most of the book is optional content, even down to the spells if you want. However that rambling conversational tone is surprisingly useful as Best Practices GM Discussion. Read like a novel first, then return to it with a highlighter or pencil for marginalia notes -- I got way more out of it upon returning to it as an adult than just using it as a reference manual as a teen. :)
Just make your fuckin' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what's interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it's more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Steven Mitchell

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2020, 11:31:28 am »
This is a difficult question for me to answer directly because I long ago came to terms with the fact that the way I'd do D&D if it were left up to me wouldn't fly as D&D.  And since I have the sense the know that, what I'd end up doing would be a compromise with what is necessary to fly as D&D, and thus I'm entirely the wrong person to do it.  For one thing, I'd probably develop ulcers.  That major caveat aside, here are some general things that I prefer:

- A unified vision. Or mostly unified vision.  AD&D 1E has it.  DCC has it. Some other derivatives have it.  WotC products don't.  The closest they came to a unified vision was 4E and even there they had multiple personality disorder running  wild in their text.  Follow through matters, of course, but with a committee calling the shots you put a fairly low ceiling on the big picture quality no matter how hard you work on the development and fine tuning.

- Ability scores that match the rules.  If it were me, I'd change the ability scores to match the way it is played (Exhibit #1, your honor, on why I don't get the job.)  But it also works to make it play with the traditional six.  Either keep the  tradition and work with it or not, but be consistent.

- Don't mix class and skill.  It's either class-based or it is skill-based.  If it is class-based, then maybe rethink the exact niche of "class" to something more like the original--the package of things that you signed up to play that has everything bundled in.  But build the classes from the ground up with a set of abilities that makes them easier to customize for the campaign.  In this view, there are two steps:  1.) The GM (perhaps in consultation with some of the players that are so inclined) builds the classes for the campaign.  2.)  Then once play starts, you use what is in the class, same as it was in, say, Basic/Expert sets.  I personally prefer skills-based in most games, but I think D&D should be the exception there (for too many reasons to list).

- In the course of labeling abilities, there might be some things that are akin to "skills" even in a class-based game.  Calling them "skills" is a bad idea, because it skews people's perception of what should be in the list and how they should work.  I'm not wild about "proficiency" as a name, but even it is better than skills.  I don't have a good answer for exactly how to handle this part, though.  My personal drift is to make "classes" somewhat more narrow but build multi-classing into the base engine.  For example, in that view, "wizards" class levels don't give any fighting ability at all, but the default multi-class structure is such that most "adventurers" will at least dabble a little.  I'm not unaware that such a design has its own issues, and pushes rather forcefully up to the edge of "Not D&D" territory. (You'll note that in order for this to work, multi-classing would be closer to the AD&D model than the 3E model, but neither is a good fit as is.)

- I'd make a similar argument for race/culture/background, though in a truly flexible class-based game where the classes changed by campaign, I'm not sure it matters as much.

- Make the abstraction levels at least somewhat consistent.  For example, if there aren't going to be that many difference in weapon properties, then a list of weapons similar to Basic D&D is not only fine but better than a longer list.  If equipment in general is simplified, then you need that shorter equipment list.  Likewise, if you are going to have more details in equipment, then probably some plausible encumbrance system, economic system, etc. is needed to go along with it.  Ideally, there would be some ability for each group to shift the abstraction a little, but it would be presented in a handful of coherent rules packages.  You don't care about all those details?  Here's your short equipment list, some guidelines on GM eyeballing encumbrance and wealth, now Go!  You do care about that, here's a more detailed way to handle all that stuff.  You'll get the occasional person who cares enough to mix and match and work it out, but I'd rather have 2-4 reasonable sets of rules that work well together within each set, than a system of disparate parts with several options per part and the (inevitably mistaken) claim that they all work together.

- I only have a handful of negative preferences on D&D art.   If it were up to me, I'd turn that over to a talent art team with the direction to "surprise us" as long as it doesn't look like (my personal short list of artists that are way over used).  My dream art package would have a subtle nod to the Impressionists with a fantastical slant, but somehow I don't think that is a popular direction. :D

RandyB

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2020, 11:38:48 am »
1e, using the following books:

PHB
DMG
MM
FF
MMII
DDG

Aside from that, it's a matter of what rules to use to model "magic is not safe to use".


Edit to add: plus a heaping helping of content from Dragon #1-100 or so.

insubordinate polyhedral

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2020, 11:40:53 am »
Quote from: Opaopajr;1135813
The 2e Player's Handbook is pretty easy to grasp if you understand it is once-removed from High Gygaxian with a bit of Mere Mortal Vulgate rules organization. :D That and like most of the book is optional content, even down to the spells if you want. However that rambling conversational tone is surprisingly useful as Best Practices GM Discussion. Read like a novel first, then return to it with a highlighter or pencil for marginalia notes -- I got way more out of it upon returning to it as an adult than just using it as a reference manual as a teen. :)

Maybe it's my defectively super-literal streak, but I find it waaaaaaaaaay less coherent than my 1e books and other Gygax works I own, and the broken references and stuff and bizarre organizational choices irritate me and hamper usability for me significantly. Trying to do the same things out of the 2e manual that I've done elsewhere took me 1.5x-2x the time. I guess this is all to say that I admire your patience and dedication. :D If there were a beautifully restated version somewhere I'd be all-in. I guess the closest is still Castles & Crusades, kinda. (I read/used C&C before 2e, which might be what affected my impression.)

S'mon

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2020, 11:46:40 am »
1e Adnd with ascending AC and to-hit, the S&W single save, and maybe 5e's advantage mechanic.

Really loving running 1e again currently but it is a bit clunky in places. Castles and Crusades didn't work for me but OSRIC with a couple tweaks would.
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Graewulf

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2020, 12:01:23 pm »
2e, with the Player's Option books, but with DC skill checks, keep the big skill list, add damage mitigation for armor, make saves stat-based, and change to ascending AC (ThAC0 is clunky and annoying; nostalgia isn't worth it).

Omega

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Current WoTC aside, what does your perfect D&D edition look like?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2020, 12:05:17 pm »
Something between BX D&D and AD&D. 2e just didnt grab me for some reason despite being 90% AD&D. I think it was the lack of DM tools AD&D had that nudge my outlook that way.

5e I rather like despite the flaws in resting and failure to carry over the complete AD&D falling rules just so they can mock it. 2e as well failed on that count. But 5e brings back some of the missing DM tools.