Greetings!

Well, in the 5E Player's Handbook, there's a Hand Crossbow, a Light Crossbow, and a Heavy Crossbow. Pretty standard and innocuous stuff. In my own world of Thandor, I have added several additional types of crossbows. There are repeating crossbows, firing one bolt per trigger pull and reloading from a magazine. Then, I have multi-round burst crossbows, firing two bolts at once, with variants for the Hand Crossbow, Light Crossbow, and Heavy Crossbow. I also have one type that fires 5 bolts at once. Multi round crossbows require more time to reload, so they have some distinct limitations. Also, crossbows have reduced range compared to bows, and they also shoot in a flat trajectory, with thus no arcing over obstacles and that kind of thing. I have developed a Light Arbalest, which has greater range and striking power than a Heavy Crossbow, but is also slow to reload and more expensive.

Then, I also have a few unusual kinds of crossbows, that are magical. I have several models of Dwarven Crossbows that differ in their performance when compared to other crossbows as well, which is kind of cool.

How have you included crossbows in your campaign? Have you tinkered around with additional stats and features for different styles of crossbows?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

In games using Runequest/BRP systems I've had repeating crossbows (lighter damage, faster ROF) in theory (not part of the cultures played in so not really available) and arbalests (heavier damage, very slow ROF). A few characters have used an arbalest. Expected damage is enough to punch through heavy armor with a reasonable chance to incap the hit location. And impales and criticals will really ruin an opponent's day. Reload time is so slow that its hardly relevant except in some type of siege.

One thing I've always wanted to include is a heavy crossbow with a half-draw stop. It works like a heavy crossbow normally, but someone of sufficient strength could fire it like a light crossbow (range and damage) without needing the time to use a goats foot or crannequin. It's a weapon used by the protagonist in one of Karl Edward Wagner's Kane stories.

The gastraphetes, a variant predecessor of the crossbow, would be cool in a classical era themed campaign.

(D6 system not D&D even though I say "let's play d&d" I mean D6)
To encourage wearing armor rather than going butt naked and using character points to soak damage, i have most armor allow the user to ignore stun results except for certain weapons like a great hammer; i elstwise make every hit a stun; i allow crossbows to stun through armor of their class (light medium heavy) or lighter at medium range or less, making them somewhat favored. Doesn't sound like much but accumulating stuns equal to physique dice renders you unconcious/ temp incap for 2D minutes and i have it force a stamna check on awakening to avoid a wound result.

I've got the following in my system;
- hand crossbows - useable in your offhand, reloads quickly.
- crossbows - two-handed to fire, take your movement to reload.
- superior crossbows - even more damage and more accurate.
- siege crossbows - superior damage and range.
- repeating crossbows - like a normal crossbow, but with magazine.
- medium engine - a 250 lb. crossbow... mentioned here because smaller giants are playable species in the setting and 250 lb. is something they could use like a man uses a crossbow.

Honorable mention;
- projectors - armless crossbows that fire magical bolts of kinetic energy; created by the gadgeteering path of arcane magic mostly for their own use (since they can channel their spells through them for extra effect), but with the right training (basically an exotic weapon proficiency) anyone can use them at the basic level. They have about the same capabilities as a similar sized crossbow and don't require ammunition, but are ridiculously expensive (you could equip five men with crossbows for the cost of a single projector) so typically are only found in the hands of gadgeteers, nobles and adventurers (the latter two only if they get the right training to operate them).

We divide crossbows two ways:

How often can they operate:
There are standard crossbows that have to be cocked by brute force. They require three of our five-second rounds to cock and load. If ready when the encounter starts, they operate on rounds 1/5/9 etc. In practice, they tend to be used in fire and forget mode.
There are crossbows with a minor mechanical assist that are more expensive and take two rounds to cock and load, loosing on rounds 1/4/7 etc.
Then there are the crossbows with a major mechanical assist. They are even more expensive and, in some campaigns, are only made by dwarfs. They take one round to cock and load and loose on rounds 1/3/5 etc.

How much damage can they do:(Damage in the game seems huge to D & D players but no one is going around with D4 HP, characters usually have between 25 and 35 HP,  and armor reduces damage and characters get good at not being hit)
Teleks are very small and can be concealed and can be operated with one hand. One needs a set of tools and a worktable to reload them, so they are always fire and forget.
They do 4D6 AP Point Damage (subtract _half_of the armor value, apply the damage) or
4D6 + 2 Stabbing Damage (subtract 1.5 armor value, triple anything left and apply it.
Teleks were invented by dwarfs but are illegal in all dwarf jurisidctions and most others.
Light Crossbows do 4D8 AP and 4D8 + 2 Stabbing
Medium Crossbows do 4D10 AP and 4D10 + 2 Stabbing
Heavy Crossbows do 8D6 AP and 8D6 + 2 Stabbing

GURPS allows for various strengths of crossbow.  One tactic is to have a high strength fighter paired with a high dexterity marksman.  They carry two crossbows, the high strength guy loads and the high dexterity guy shoots.  When it comes to close combat the high strength guy plays guard.  They carry a windlass in case the high strength guy goes down.

In one of my campaigns a dwarf assassin had a crossbow that broke down into two prybars and a craftsman's level with an arrow head that was also a plumb bob.

Maybe not quite what you asked, but I specifically exclude crossbows from my campaign, which I think makes a big difference in the feel of the technology level, and thus the flavor of fantasy. No other common D&D weapon feels quite so mechanistic to me.

I'm playing a D&D-type game more often than not.  To me, crossbows often don't seem to work very well in such games.  It's mainly because they sit in a peculiar spot when it comes to reconciling verisimilitude with fun game play--and D&D-type games usually lack the mechanics to make those differences work out well.   

I'm trying an experiment with that in a game that is a hybrid of BEMCI/RC and 5E--closer to the former than the latter in most ways.  The relevant pieces for crossbows (though they affect weapons in general):

• Weapon proficiencies rather scarce except for Fighters.
• But any character can use any weapon without proficiency.  Proficiency makes you better with the weapon.
• All ranged weapons have a reload action cost, usually zero, but 1 or 2 for most crossbows.
• Crossbows do more damage, using a flat die.  I'm using d8/d10 at the moment because numbers are smaller across the board, but may bump to d10/d12.
• Using weapons without proficiency adds +1 action to the reload time.

The net effect is that crossbows become a highly variable weapon that may dish out some hurt.  They are good for specialists as a secondary or tertiary weapon, characters who won't shoot much but still want a long-range option, and anyone that wants an opening barrage.  Your low-level mage can carry one.  He'll miss more often than not, but hit enough to make it worth the gamble when preserving spells.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on November 06, 2020, 08:58:25 AM

• But any character can use any weapon without proficiency.  Proficiency makes you better with the weapon.

I've been working on my own D&D-like system lately, and this is basically how I decided to handle weapon proficiencies as well. All characters are effectively "proficient" (i.e. have no penalties) in all weapons by default, and weapon training abilities (Proficiencies, Specializations, whatever I end up calling them) simply grant bonuses. The basic idea is that it reduces bookkeeping by eliminating the need to track a default penalty or abilities that grant you nothing and only serve to eliminate penalties, and refocuses the game on tracking only advantages or disadvantages (such as racial penalties) that are beside the norm.

So if your character actually has training in a weapon, then you get a bonus instead. But if you don't have proficiency you don't need to constantly track a penalty, or clog your character sheet with exceptions to some penalty the game assumes exists by default.

I have owned a crossbow and the maintenance requirements for them don't seem to be accounted for very often.
The strings wear out fast from rubbing on the stock.

Quote from: VisionStorm on November 06, 2020, 01:31:32 PM

I've been working on my own D&D-like system lately, and this is basically how I decided to handle weapon proficiencies as well. All characters are effectively "proficient" (i.e. have no penalties) in all weapons by default, and weapon training abilities (Proficiencies, Specializations, whatever I end up calling them) simply grant bonuses. The basic idea is that it reduces bookkeeping by eliminating the need to track a default penalty or abilities that grant you nothing and only serve to eliminate penalties, and refocuses the game on tracking only advantages or disadvantages (such as racial penalties) that are beside the norm.

So if your character actually has training in a weapon, then you get a bonus instead. But if you don't have proficiency you don't need to constantly track a penalty, or clog your character sheet with exceptions to some penalty the game assumes exists by default.

That was my main impetus to design it that way.  Then I realized that a lot of those little edge details that I wanted in weapons could also be left to those that were proficient.  As you say, it makes the tracking somewhat easier.  I suppose to be 100% clean about it, I should set the reload times on ranged weapons to +1 and then let proficiency drop it by one.  But I figured more characters would use them proficient than the other way around.

Quote from: Greentongue on November 06, 2020, 01:41:04 PM
I have owned a crossbow and the maintenance requirements for them don't seem to be accounted for very often.
The strings wear out fast from rubbing on the stock.

Well, the fact is that most games just don't pay much (or any) attention to maintenance of weapons or armor. Crossbows don't really stand out here.

Quote from: Bren on October 30, 2020, 05:29:45 PM
In games using Runequest/BRP systems I've had repeating crossbows (lighter damage, faster ROF) in theory (not part of the cultures played in so not really available) and arbalests (heavier damage, very slow ROF). A few characters have used an arbalest. Expected damage is enough to punch through heavy armor with a reasonable chance to incap the hit location. And impales and criticals will really ruin an opponent's day. Reload time is so slow that its hardly relevant except in some type of siege.

One thing I've always wanted to include is a heavy crossbow with a half-draw stop. It works like a heavy crossbow normally, but someone of sufficient strength could fire it like a light crossbow (range and damage) without needing the time to use a goats foot or crannequin. It's a weapon used by the protagonist in one of Karl Edward Wagner's Kane stories.

The gastraphetes, a variant predecessor of the crossbow, would be cool in a classical era themed campaign.

Greetings!

Karl Edward Wagner is a great author! I love his Kane series of books. Very cool stuff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Zalman on November 05, 2020, 10:53:46 AM
Maybe not quite what you asked, but I specifically exclude crossbows from my campaign, which I think makes a big difference in the feel of the technology level, and thus the flavor of fantasy. No other common D&D weapon feels quite so mechanistic to me.

Greetings!

Interesting, Zalman! You exclude crossbows entirely, heh?

In thinking of my own campaign world, I skew towards righteously avoiding the trend of constantly pushing everything towards a Rennaissance-flavoured mess where everything seems more often set in such a high-tech, gunpowder, clockworkish steam thing. For flavour purposes, I have in the past often dragged my feet in waffling back and forth about how crossbows affect the campaign's tone, so I believe we are definitely on the same page with that.

However, I am given some pause in consideration and development of crossbows. It seems jarring, I know, for in many ways, crossbows are inextricably connected to the whole Rennaissance/gunpowder mess--which I think is linked to the historical presentation of Western Europe getting into crossbows circa the 13th century and afterwards, coming soon into gunpowder and firearms, and thus, moving relatively quickly far from a medieval culture and environment.

I'm struck though by the historical or cultural framework that such has been often given to us--in the West.

It is perhaps surprising to learn that ancient China went through their feudal period in the 1st century AD--as they moved to the consolidation of empire, and bureaucratic system, instead of a feudal system of government. It was during those times, that the Chinese invented and embraced crossbows, using them en masse military regiments in all of their armies as a regular formation. The Chinese also didn't abandon the use of bows or archers, either, whether foot archer or especially mounted horse archers--which both types of warriors served as huge elements of their military forces for centuries, well into what the West would experience as their own Middle Ages. Crossbowmen served alongside such forces, as an important supplement. Such forces of archers and crossbowmen existed for perhaps over a thousand years, until the Chinese also began adopting gunpowder weapons after say, the 11th century or so. Even with gunpowder weaponry, archers and crossbows continued to serve as important forces also for a good number of centuries, say five or six hundred years after that. A very different kind of evolution and employment than in the West, but also predating adoption in the West by a thousand years or more.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

If I were to put crossbows into a game system from the ground up, reloading mid-combat (assuming standard D&D skirmish & reasonably close range style combat) wouldn't really be viable. Crossbows would be useful to carry in-hand to get off a single powerful shot, and then you'd drop it and pull out a sword/spear/whatever.

Same thing for black powder weapons for that matter. Blackbeard carried six loaded pistols and a sword into battle for a reason - and it wasn't to be trendy. It was because pulling out a new one was WAY faster than reloading, and navy boarding was at close enough range that multiple pistols were often preferable to a single rifle.

It doesn't really work well in D&D style combat with how high HP gets, but it wouldn't be terribly difficult to make it feel cool and make it mechanically viable. Primarily it's D&D's HP bloat, though it might work better with a different initiative system as well.. Cover being a major factor might help too, so that first shot is the most valuable anyway, as foes may not be in cover yet.