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Author Topic: Credo  (Read 12769 times)

beejazz

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Credo
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2006, 05:28:11 PM »
Quote from: Balbinus
Right thinking people?

Anyway, I enjoy action movies too, I love pro-wrestling to the great disgust of almost everyone I've ever mentioned that too and I like comics.

DnD I don't much care for, but there are tons of games I don't much care for so that's not too special as comments go.

But the thing is, action movies are all very well, but there are far better films out there.  Now, sometimes all I want is a decent x-men movie and that's cool, but I don't kid myself it's up there with The Third Man or something like that.

Incidentally, it is entirely fair for someone to post as a credo "Kewl powerz are fun, there is nothing adolescent about wanting to kick back and kill some shit while looking cool."  I'm not expecting people to necessarily agree with me, that's kind of the point.

What sometimes annoys me isn't people enjoying cheesy shit, I love cheesy shit on occasion, it's people thinking the cheesy shit is meaningful and deep.  I enjoyed the new LotR movies, but I don't see them as being epic in anything like the sense Lawrence of Arabia is.  Quality exists.  The fact I liked the old Teenage Mutant Hero Turtle cartoons does not blind me to the fact that they were nonetheless cheesy shit.


Well... yeah. Obviously. You don't watch that shit because it makes you think. Hell, if I relied on RPGs to make me think, I'd pretty much have to hate myself for existing.

Also, the idea of "kewl powers" having "resounding implications" bugs the hell out of me. Science does not exist to oppose magic or religion, or to replace motivation... they are all just ways for people with common motivations (revenge or self-worth or a quick buck) to kick ass. It's the excuse that your ordinary man has to do extraordinary things. Like when a geeky high school student suddenly gets spider powers... or when some homesick Greek warrior happens across a bag that allows him to control the winds. And they're like "you know that shit I've been wanting to do, but couldn't until now?"

THAT's what kewl powerz are about.

RPGPundit

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Credo
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2006, 05:28:45 PM »
Quote from: beejazz

WRONGZ! Ancient mythology used magic and such largely as the hyperbole of the mundane. You weren't just angsty and depressed. You were fucking cursed. You weren't just hurt because "she left me!" You were hurt because "She got zombified and ate my leg!" Anyway, magic and superscience and all that serve as new ways of exploring old issues. If you want human passion or any of that bullshit, you should live it in real life as opposed to playing it out in an RPG.


Deadwood and Rome both managed to be brilliantly exciting TV series that are fun to watch without having to add magic that works or the supernatural or
 little green wish-fulfilling aliens from venus that only the main character sees; so why is it that Gamers seem to think that you can only make history "fun" if you add in any/all of the above to it?

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Balbinus

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Credo
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2006, 05:28:58 PM »
Quote from: ColonelHardisson
Yeah, if this is going to turn into a "defend your opinion" thread, I'll take a pass. I don't mind discussing what I think, but it'd be interesting to see what people post when they don't have to worry about getting bogged down into the internet equivalent of a land war in Asia over every thought they post. That is, I think it'd be interesting to see a thread where the posters of this community simply stated what they feel, so everyone else can get a handle on where their fellow posters stand. If they wish to have a discussion about the particulars, it'd be better off in a thread of its own.


That would be great.  I'd love to see lists of beliefs, that I think is genuinely interesting.

If anyone says anything someone violently disagrees with then call them out in a new thread and let them get it on there.

Here's a few more for me:

11.  Most people who regularly game do so because they enjoy it, thinking otherwise is idiotic and contrary to logic and common sense.

12.  Like it or not, and to be honest I don't particularly, the hobby is DnD in all its various forms and some other stuff.  Me, I play the other stuff, but the hobby is all the same DnD and some other stuff.

13.  There is nothing wrong with rpgs being descended from wargames, getting away from the wargame roots is not always a good idea, sometimes we could learn a lot from current wargames which have moved on a lot more in the last 30 years than many rpgs have.

Balbinus

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Credo
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2006, 05:30:30 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit
Eh, yeah, I think, and not to put words in his mouth, but I think what he meant was the whole deal with every RPG having to be about characters being super-powerful, and particularly RPGs that try to claim to be about deep issues but really only use that as a justification for having uber-powerful characters.


Spot on, that is what I meant, I just hadn't put it as well.

Sosthenes

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Credo
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2006, 05:34:42 PM »
1) Role-playing is foremost a social activity. We may achieve some of that via advanced mathematics, but in the end people count, not numbers.

2) That said, mechanics and tinkering can be tremendously fun.

3) Chance is good. Don't ignore happenstance.

4) A good gamers needs to be somewhat schizophrenic. Being "inside" the character, handling mechanics and working to increase the fun of your co-players at one time.

5) Don't get too attached to a certain gaming style. There are lots of games possible. Sometimes you want to lop of heads with your broadswoard, sometimes you want to wax sentimental in a shady bar. Sometimes you _have_ to use that Holy Grail quote...

6) Pizza is the food of the gods.
 

beejazz

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Credo
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2006, 05:36:16 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit
Deadwood and Rome both managed to be brilliantly exciting TV series that are fun to watch without having to add magic that works or the supernatural or
 little green wish-fulfilling aliens from venus that only the main character sees; so why is it that Gamers seem to think that you can only make history "fun" if you add in any/all of the above to it?

RPGPundit

I'm not saying that these things aren't entertaining. But even in realistic mediums, you'd rather play someone compitent as opposed to someone incompetent. Also, "millitary power" is still kewl powerz, despite the realism. Same for political, religious, or any other kind of power. It doesn't have to be supernatural to be a kewl powr. I'd hate to derail this thread over something as simple as this. That and frankly I don't care so much as to pursue it more than one or two posts further, so...

GMing: More a force of personality thing than an intellectual thing. And for all the theory out there, you'll benefit more from practice than from analysis.

ColonelHardisson

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Credo
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2006, 05:38:00 PM »
So I'll hop in with my list:

1) I'll just quote my own sig: "[D]on't get a stick up your ass and start thinking that your way of pretending to be a gay-ass elf is better than anyone else['s]." - Maddman, at a board now lost.

2) I play games to escape from the real world for a while. When I want to experience a grim & gritty, low/no magic world, I'll go out and live life.

3) Every d20/D&D3e detractor who trots out half-fiend/half-dragon/axiomatic/vampiric ogre-mage sorcerer/barbarians and the like as examples of why they dislike the game is full of shit.

4) A game built from the ground up for a setting is not inherently better than taking a pre-existing game system and tweaking it to fit the setting.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won't throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

TonyLB

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Credo
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2006, 05:39:19 PM »
1.  The artistry of creating stories follows rules embedded in the human psyche.

2.  Making a game that makes one (or more) of those rules explicit and concrete helps people to make good stories more reliably.

3.  Foolish constraints take us captive.

4.  Wise constraints set us free.

5.  The best stories can be expressed on the human scale.  If you want to express it on the cosmic scale, fine.  If you have to then you've probably got a dud.

6.  The way we play influences the way we think.

7.  Boredom only leads to more boredom ... if your GM asks you to sit through four hours of boredom because "It'll set up a great session down the line" then he's probably well-meaning but he's certainly wrong.
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Ian Absentia

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« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2006, 05:43:34 PM »
Here's a few more...

4) I only play RPGs with people I like, or at least whose play-style I enjoy.  Why the hell would I spend my precious personal time embarrassing myself in the company of a stranger, or watching him embarrass himself?

5) I enjoy playing RPGs with children now more than with adults.  There's more excitement and enthusiasm and discovery in what they do, like back when I first started playing AD&D and Traveller.

6) Your game may hold 80% of the market share, but it ain't necessarily "right" for me.  Being a lowest common denominator to the gaming public is not a selling point for me (see Point 4, above).

!i!

beejazz

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Credo
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2006, 05:43:39 PM »
Oh, and don't dumb things down just 'cause you got some n00bs in your party....

Two kobolds STILL isn't a sufficient challenge for five lvl 1 characters. No matter how new to the game they are.

Sosthenes

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Credo
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2006, 05:49:41 PM »
Quote from: beejazz
Two kobolds STILL isn't a sufficient challenge for five lvl 1 characters. No matter how new to the game they are.


Tcha, you know what? Uh-uh

(Okay, okay, just two kobolds might be pushing your luck. But that's why we've got class levels for "monsters" now...)
 

beejazz

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« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2006, 06:15:44 PM »
Quote from: Sosthenes
Tcha, you know what? Uh-uh

(Okay, okay, just two kobolds might be pushing your luck. But that's why we've got class levels for "monsters" now...)

Wow... That is just... wow.

fonkaygarry

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Credo
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2006, 06:23:45 PM »
Quote from: Sosthenes
Tcha, you know what? Uh-uh

(Okay, okay, just two kobolds might be pushing your luck. But that's why we've got class levels for "monsters" now...)


That's the most amazing thing ever.  From now on, all my 1HD monsters use combined arms tactics.
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Spike

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« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2006, 06:44:16 PM »
One of the most memorable challenges my last group of players encounterd were in fact two Kobolds.  Of course, these were 'elite' kobold knights on scarey cat-things (name escapes) all of third level. With spears.  Took on a party of eight (all my alternate players showed that night...ug), and in two rounds had floored the entire party and sauntered off.  Cavalry charges in confined corridors was what did 'em in.  

Between that on encounter, and the sheer viciousness of the Kobolds in trapping their corridors, the party developed a healthy fear of the Kobold section of the dungeon. Too bad, really, I was hoping to teach them to think more like a team, instead I just scared them. :rolleyes:
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Wandering Monster

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« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2006, 06:54:05 PM »
Quote
I only play RPGs with people I like, or at least whose play-style I enjoy. Why the hell would I spend my precious personal time embarrassing myself in the company of a stranger, or watching him embarrass himself?


That one bears repeating.  Over and over and over...

1) A small, coherent set of strong "kewl-powerz" is more interesting than pages of unrelated, tiny powers and bonuses.

2) Magical or fantastic elements are only interesting in a setting when used in moderation.  

3) There's nothing wrong with playing a human.

4) Wandering monster tables are a stupid idea.