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Author Topic: Crashes in Traveller  (Read 4933 times)

David Johansen

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Crashes in Traveller
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2018, 05:10:33 PM »
Long ago, in Shadis magazine there was an article by someone, probably Monty Cook, who had once worked at ICE.  They sat down to play Spacemaster, spent two hours making characters, and died within the first five minutes due to a critically failed piloting roll.  To which the GM said, tough luck roll up new characters.  

My own thought is that in fluff terms it depends a great deal on whether the inertial dampers are working and whether the ship has any thrust or anti-grav functioning.  If nothing's working, you're probably dead.  The good news is that space is mostly empty so you're only likely to crash when you're close to something big.  Inertial dampers can take off around three Gs they're the main reason there are maneuver drive TL limits if Fire Fusion and Steel is to be believed.

In game terms I'd work from that, does the Engineer have time to route temporary power from the laser turrets to the maneuver drive or intertial dampers, or can they vent some atmosphere to make a tiny angular deflection?  Can the pilot use control surfaces to decelerate through atmosphere before impact?  How much drag does opening the cargo bay get you? Lots of fun and tense skill rolls to be made.

In the end though, it comes down to how well will your players take a seemingly arbitrary TPK.  Generally speaking, I find players get tired of sf really fast if they just die instantly from things beyond their control.  On the one hand you don't want them to feel powerless, as realistic as that can be, but on the other hand you don't want them to think they have plot immunity.  For Traveller, I'd suggest 1d - 5d damage to characters in a crash, depending on the circumstances.
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RPGPundit

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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2018, 11:03:41 PM »
There has to be some kind of precedent in ship-damage from starship combat rules. I don't recall, but are there maybe any rules on ramming or collisions in space?
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zx81

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« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2018, 01:57:13 AM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1031344
There has to be some kind of precedent in ship-damage from starship combat rules. I don't recall, but are there maybe any rules on ramming or collisions in space?

Not in Classic.
MgT core rules mentions collisions with "tiny objects" (something like 2D damage, I might be wrong), and also says that collision with anything at the speeds of spacetravel is lethal (not sure about the exact wording - it´s in the space encounter section).

Willie the Duck

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« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2018, 08:49:08 AM »
Quote from: zx81;1031359
Not in Classic.
MgT core rules mentions collisions with "tiny objects" (something like 2D damage, I might be wrong), and also says that collision with anything at the speeds of spacetravel is lethal (not sure about the exact wording - it´s in the space encounter section).

Conceit of the genre. Despite Traveller being 'the age of sail, but in space,' it actually gets the whole 'space is big' part right. Ramming one ship with another during a combat scenario would be like two long-range snipers shooting each other's bullets out of the air (but instead of the bullets, they are throwing themselves that distance? Hmmm. Poor analogy choice).

Ramming one ship with another or a space stations during docking exercises would make sense, as you are actually trying to pull up close. And ramming a ship with a planet makes sense if it happens during a takeoff or de-orbiting. I'm a little surprised that there isn't a generalized ship mishap rule that doesn't apply, but Classic Traveller is like that sometimes.

Shawn Driscoll

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« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2018, 08:55:25 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1031344
There has to be some kind of precedent in ship-damage from starship combat rules. I don't recall, but are there maybe any rules on ramming or collisions in space?

Ramming is hand-waved for the most part. The idea being that space is so huge, such things are rare, etc.

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« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2018, 05:04:26 AM »
Huh, that's a surprise. But then, in spite of having run more than one Traveller campaign over the last 15 years, I've never been much of a fan of detailed space combat and tended to just hand-wave the whole lot.
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estar

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Crashes in Traveller
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2018, 06:40:16 AM »
Quote from: zx81;1031359
Not in Classic.
MgT core rules mentions collisions with "tiny objects" (something like 2D damage, I might be wrong), and also says that collision with anything at the speeds of spacetravel is lethal (not sure about the exact wording - it´s in the space encounter section).

Orbital mechanics quickly multiplies the speed difference between objects. The general rule of thumb is that lower orbits move faster than lower orbits. Objects move the faster relative to the orbiting body the lower they are in their orbit. Finally orbits can be at different inclinations even at the same height i.e. same speed which mean a collision would be like two cars entering an intersection at some angle hitting each other at a high speed.

Depending on the relative mass the collision quickly becomes catastrophic for the starship.

jeff37923

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« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2018, 07:56:13 AM »
Oh, did someone ask for detailed kinetic energy kill missiles in Traveller?

Here ya' go! Math and all!

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zx81

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« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2018, 09:20:33 AM »
Quote from: estar;1031814
Orbital mechanics quickly multiplies the speed difference between objects. The general rule of thumb is that lower orbits move faster than lower orbits. Objects move the faster relative to the orbiting body the lower they are in their orbit. Finally orbits can be at different inclinations even at the same height i.e. same speed which mean a collision would be like two cars entering an intersection at some angle hitting each other at a high speed.

Depending on the relative mass the collision quickly becomes catastrophic for the starship.


This is probably true.
Still, pulling off seemingly impossible landings is not uncommon in SF.
At least in my mind, although I cant think of an example right now.
Some system breaks down, but by reversing this and allocating power to that, while pulling really hard on the controls, the hero saves the day.

Dr. Ink'n'stain

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« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2018, 12:31:36 PM »
Quote from: zx81;1031826
This is probably true.
Still, pulling off seemingly impossible landings is not uncommon in SF.
At least in my mind, although I cant think of an example right now.
Some system breaks down, but by reversing this and allocating power to that, while pulling really hard on the controls, the hero saves the day.

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Skarg

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« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2018, 04:11:45 PM »
GM: "Ship crashes. Everyone dies."

Shawn Driscoll

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« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2018, 10:07:09 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1031808
Huh, that's a surprise. But then, in spite of having run more than one Traveller campaign over the last 15 years, I've never been much of a fan of detailed space combat and tended to just hand-wave the whole lot.

An NCC-1701 crashing into a planet is always hand-waved. And building an NCC-1701A is also just hand-waved.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 10:09:24 PM by Shawn Driscoll »

jeff37923

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« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2018, 10:52:55 PM »
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1032089
An NCC-1701 crashing into a planet is always hand-waved. And building an NCC-1701A is also just hand-waved.



Hand-waved, huh?

If you can't figure out how to make a crash landing interesting and exciting for your Players then I'm not surprised.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 10:59:10 PM by jeff37923 »
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« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2018, 05:48:41 AM »
I mean, if we were being 'realistic', a crash would almost certainly just kill everyone on board, right?
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zx81

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« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2018, 06:17:08 AM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1032377
I mean, if we were being 'realistic', a crash would almost certainly just kill everyone on board, right?

What about those "magic" gravplates (if they still work)?
In 40 years, someone must have found a pseudoscientific way of using them to save the crew or even the ship in a crash.