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Author Topic: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets  (Read 34860 times)

Thorn Drumheller

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #105 on: August 11, 2022, 08:19:10 PM »
I'll admit I'm a horrible person. Reading the news section of the site is so entertaining. In the latest they're seeking help with donating books and name dropped the dude that he was forced to fire. So people are crap, don't matter the color of your skin or if you're just like him. LOL
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wmarshal

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #106 on: August 11, 2022, 08:41:24 PM »
I'll admit I'm a horrible person. Reading the news section of the site is so entertaining. In the latest they're seeking help with donating books and name dropped the dude that he was forced to fire. So people are crap, don't matter the color of your skin or if you're just like him. LOL
He’s asking for help on the shipping costs for the donations when the pledge level stated Coyote and Crow would take care of that shipping. That would seem to violate the terms of the pledge, and reflects poor planning on his part. He would seem to now have about 5,000 books that he’s paying storage for, but doesn’t have the funds to ship. The Kickstarter is effectively broke because it lacks the funds to fulfill its obligations, and if he doesn’t get the money to start shipping those books soon he’s going to either be going into debt, or he’ll have to abandon/destroy the books. This is not looking like a success. So yeah, raising a million dollars doesn’t prevent one from going broke. In fact, the appearance of success can be a trap.

Thorn Drumheller

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #107 on: August 11, 2022, 09:55:08 PM »
I'll admit I'm a horrible person. Reading the news section of the site is so entertaining. In the latest they're seeking help with donating books and name dropped the dude that he was forced to fire. So people are crap, don't matter the color of your skin or if you're just like him. LOL
He’s asking for help on the shipping costs for the donations when the pledge level stated Coyote and Crow would take care of that shipping. That would seem to violate the terms of the pledge, and reflects poor planning on his part. He would seem to now have about 5,000 books that he’s paying storage for, but doesn’t have the funds to ship. The Kickstarter is effectively broke because it lacks the funds to fulfill its obligations, and if he doesn’t get the money to start shipping those books soon he’s going to either be going into debt, or he’ll have to abandon/destroy the books. This is not looking like a success. So yeah, raising a million dollars doesn’t prevent one from going broke. In fact, the appearance of success can be a trap.

Ding, ding, ding, ding...we have a winner. Just because they raised over one million really doesn't mean shite when the kickstarter was poorly run, then exacerbated by rising costs.
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wmarshal

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #108 on: August 11, 2022, 10:25:00 PM »
I'll admit I'm a horrible person. Reading the news section of the site is so entertaining. In the latest they're seeking help with donating books and name dropped the dude that he was forced to fire. So people are crap, don't matter the color of your skin or if you're just like him. LOL
He’s asking for help on the shipping costs for the donations when the pledge level stated Coyote and Crow would take care of that shipping. That would seem to violate the terms of the pledge, and reflects poor planning on his part. He would seem to now have about 5,000 books that he’s paying storage for, but doesn’t have the funds to ship. The Kickstarter is effectively broke because it lacks the funds to fulfill its obligations, and if he doesn’t get the money to start shipping those books soon he’s going to either be going into debt, or he’ll have to abandon/destroy the books. This is not looking like a success. So yeah, raising a million dollars doesn’t prevent one from going broke. In fact, the appearance of success can be a trap.

Ding, ding, ding, ding...we have a winner. Just because they raised over one million really doesn't mean shite when the kickstarter was poorly run, then exacerbated by rising costs.
—3,212 pledged $100 for 2 copies. 1 to the backer who’d pay the shipping cost for their copy, and the other copy to a reservation with CC taking on that shipping cost. If I’m generous his costs were 60% (he had a lot of people he paid to work on this, and in his Wokeness 1 of his pledge levels he said he’d make sure to pay them well) out of that $100, $60 went to production, $40 are left, but he has to pay shipping out of that $40. That’s not just the cost of the postage, but the labor for someone to pack it, the mailer used to pack it, delivering all those to the post office, etc.
—947 pledged at $50 for donation of 1 book only. He has to cover the shipping for all those.
—6,496 pledged at $50 for 1 book, that leaves it up to the backer to decide if it’s a donation or not. If it’s being donated, again he has to eat the shipping.

He says he has about 5,000 donations (5,000 left? Was he able to send some of the donations, and he’s down to the last 5,000?) Out of the above numbers it seems at least about 900 in that last category of 6,496 backers chose to donate, maybe more. I’m guessing there was a ton of guilt-ridden Woke white people that backed, but chose to donate the book for that sweet feeling of virtue. In doing so, they stuck him with the billing, and the Woke are wrecking his project due to their virtue-signaling. That could explain his bitter post where he begged/shamed white people to buy his book, and (this is important) put it on THEIR shelf. The last thing he needs now is another wave of Woke white people sending him money for books to be donated to a reservation. That’s killing his business. His original guilt trip and shaming of whites has blown up in his face.

SHARK

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #109 on: August 11, 2022, 10:35:20 PM »
Greetings!

Whenever I get to the point of publishing a game book for my campaign world, I promise there is no sweet charity, no deep virtue signaling involved.

It is to get an interesting, fun game book.

And to make me money, so that I can build a dream of a filthy rich capitalist lifestyle. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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HappyDaze

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #110 on: August 11, 2022, 11:02:43 PM »
Hmm...  I don't see how 'get woke go broke' still gets bandied about when the Kickstarter generated over $1 million in contributions.

I also don't think it's crazy to suggest buying a book/game that you may not play/read.  I have several RPG books that I bought because I wanted to mine them for ideas more than I actually wanted to play them.  And the fact that it offers A rule system that doesn’t focus on violence as the first option for story resolution seems like exactly the kind of thing that is worth looking at in more detail.
The problem isn't in buying a game you won't play to mine it for ideas. That's fine, and I do it quite often. The problem is being told that you're a problem person if you don't buy it, so you should buy it and shelve it just to not be a problem person. In fact, any time a judgment call of what the customer "should do" is being thrown out, it's a really bad sign.

FingerRod

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #111 on: August 12, 2022, 07:13:16 AM »
A couple items are apparent.

Anyone arguing these events are the actions of a growing and/or thriving company, has an agenda. Or they are, in fact, ignorant.

Anyone arguing that a non-violent ‘first option’ resolution system, coupled with simply buying the book yet not playing the game, are important parts of the equation leading to a growing and thriving company, doesn’t understand the TTRPG industry. This hobby was started by people obsessively playing games, throwing funky dice, and caving in the faces of orcs, goblins, and evil sorcerers. Coyote and Crow needs people to play the game. And people need to have fun when they do.

Anyone who thinks one million dollars is a lot of money, given all of the obligations and people who had to be paid to send that many books out, doesn’t understand money, business or both.

Corolinth

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #112 on: August 12, 2022, 09:28:34 PM »
Anyone who thinks one million dollars is a lot of money, given all of the obligations and people who had to be paid to send that many books out, doesn’t understand money, business or both.
And how.

A business can blow through a million dollars pretty quickly. That's assuming everything is totally above board and legitimate and nobody makes a single mistake. If there were any mistakes at all at any point during the project (and there surely were, no team is perfect) this guy could very well be losing his ass.

wmarshal

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #113 on: August 12, 2022, 09:42:11 PM »
I won’t say too much in favor of this Woke racist jerk running CC, but at least he’s not a Mike Nystul or Ken Whitman. And now I’m done.

RPGPundit

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #114 on: August 13, 2022, 06:03:32 PM »
The thing that gets me the most about the Aztecs is how impressed people are that they built a city and had a calendar, apparently not realizing that the timeframe for this was the 1400s-1500s.  Rome was well ahead of them millennia earlier.  The Notre Dame was constructed centuries before the Aztecs rose.  The Arabs were publishing books on algebra hundreds of years prior.  The Aztecs were not any flavor of technological powerhouse, the only thing remotely impressive was that they accomplished what they did in relative isolation, while Europe/Asia/Africa had communication and trade for advancements to more easily flourish.

Perhaps the more relevant point is that the MAYA did that, on the same continent, 1500+ years BEFORE the Aztecs.

In fact, I'm having trouble thinking of any technological or scientific innovation that the Aztecs came up with that the Mayans didn't also have. That means that in essence civilization in the Americas had been stagnant since around the peak period of the Mayan civilization circa 250AD.
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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #115 on: August 13, 2022, 06:12:49 PM »
I think it's missing the point a little bit to call this a failure.

His KS did over a million dollars, so that's his sales floor. Do we have anyone here that would be able to estimate the production costs (the books seem to be in full color, pretty much something like industry standard quality in terms of paper, etc.)?

It's possible this guy has already walked away with a quarter of a million dollars just from the KS, and then further sales would be the cherry, rather than the sundae itself.

The tone of his post does seem a bit on the desperate side of cringe, so maybe the production costs were very high and the KS profits are way smaller than they appear to be...


I did an entire video about this, and was specifically thinking about cases like this game, and how KS that seem to make huge money often still don't.



The topic actually starts around 5:45
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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #116 on: August 13, 2022, 06:39:23 PM »
Finally, as to this guy's photo, I know many people who are treaty natives but don't look like what people assume natives to look like. I knew one guy who was a Canadian card carrying status "first nations" who had blonde hair, blue eyes and light skin.

That's not an issue per se. What IS an issue is this when matched with CRT and leftist Racialism.  These people constantly attack me because I "don't look Latino". They claim I'm lying, that I'm not actually Latino at all (note: as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, if we want to get to the blood=ethnicity argument, someone can be a card-carrying Cherokee while only being 1/64th Cherokee blood; whereas I'm literally 50% Latino by birth), accuse me of cultural appropriation (note: I'm nearing my 20th year of living here, and I speak the language so well that it usually takes locals a very long time if at all to realize Spanish isn't my first language), etc., but then this guy who looks every bit as "white" as I do is given a free pass by the left to represent an entire continent's worth of people while accusing almost every gamer of being a racist while still demanding they buy his product.

It's the hypocrisy, stupid.
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jhkim

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #117 on: August 14, 2022, 12:05:55 AM »
The thing that gets me the most about the Aztecs is how impressed people are that they built a city and had a calendar, apparently not realizing that the timeframe for this was the 1400s-1500s.  Rome was well ahead of them millennia earlier.  The Notre Dame was constructed centuries before the Aztecs rose.  The Arabs were publishing books on algebra hundreds of years prior.  The Aztecs were not any flavor of technological powerhouse, the only thing remotely impressive was that they accomplished what they did in relative isolation, while Europe/Asia/Africa had communication and trade for advancements to more easily flourish.

Perhaps the more relevant point is that the MAYA did that, on the same continent, 1500+ years BEFORE the Aztecs.

In fact, I'm having trouble thinking of any technological or scientific innovation that the Aztecs came up with that the Mayans didn't also have. That means that in essence civilization in the Americas had been stagnant since around the peak period of the Mayan civilization circa 250AD.

I think most civilizations advance only slowly, with occasional innovations mostly coming from trade. Key breakthroughs got passed around back and forth across Eurasia - like the compass and gunpowder from China, while in Mesoamerica, development all happened in isolation so it may seem slower but their steady progression seems roughly similar to incremental developments of civilizations in Eurasia.

I'm not very well read on developments from Maya to Aztec, but I'm more familiar with developments in Northern America as well as Andean civilization. There was development of more advanced agriculture, pottery, and weaving among the Andean civilizations from 250AD to 1500AD. In general, the agriculture of the Americas is responsible for many of the world's most popular crops - corn, potatoes, chocolate, peanuts, and many more.

In North America, there was a city in Poverty Point, Louisiana in 1700BC with a seven-story pyramid and surrounding city planning. There were dramatic changes from 250AD to 1500AD, as the Hopewell civilization arose, then a dark ages of sorts after its fall, then the rise of Mississippian culture with its cities, pyramids, corn, and religion. These advances spread into the Southeast and the Northeast in the period from 1200AD to 1500AD.

Omega

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #118 on: August 14, 2022, 01:47:44 PM »
I'll admit I'm a horrible person. Reading the news section of the site is so entertaining. In the latest they're seeking help with donating books and name dropped the dude that he was forced to fire. So people are crap, don't matter the color of your skin or if you're just like him. LOL
He’s asking for help on the shipping costs for the donations when the pledge level stated Coyote and Crow would take care of that shipping. That would seem to violate the terms of the pledge, and reflects poor planning on his part. He would seem to now have about 5,000 books that he’s paying storage for, but doesn’t have the funds to ship. The Kickstarter is effectively broke because it lacks the funds to fulfill its obligations, and if he doesn’t get the money to start shipping those books soon he’s going to either be going into debt, or he’ll have to abandon/destroy the books. This is not looking like a success. So yeah, raising a million dollars doesn’t prevent one from going broke. In fact, the appearance of success can be a trap.

Ding, ding, ding, ding...we have a winner. Just because they raised over one million really doesn't mean shite when the kickstarter was poorly run, then exacerbated by rising costs.
—3,212 pledged $100 for 2 copies. 1 to the backer who’d pay the shipping cost for their copy, and the other copy to a reservation with CC taking on that shipping cost. If I’m generous his costs were 60% (he had a lot of people he paid to work on this, and in his Wokeness 1 of his pledge levels he said he’d make sure to pay them well) out of that $100, $60 went to production, $40 are left, but he has to pay shipping out of that $40. That’s not just the cost of the postage, but the labor for someone to pack it, the mailer used to pack it, delivering all those to the post office, etc.
—947 pledged at $50 for donation of 1 book only. He has to cover the shipping for all those.
—6,496 pledged at $50 for 1 book, that leaves it up to the backer to decide if it’s a donation or not. If it’s being donated, again he has to eat the shipping.

He says he has about 5,000 donations (5,000 left? Was he able to send some of the donations, and he’s down to the last 5,000?) Out of the above numbers it seems at least about 900 in that last category of 6,496 backers chose to donate, maybe more. I’m guessing there was a ton of guilt-ridden Woke white people that backed, but chose to donate the book for that sweet feeling of virtue. In doing so, they stuck him with the billing, and the Woke are wrecking his project due to their virtue-signaling. That could explain his bitter post where he begged/shamed white people to buy his book, and (this is important) put it on THEIR shelf. The last thing he needs now is another wave of Woke white people sending him money for books to be donated to a reservation. That’s killing his business. His original guilt trip and shaming of whites has blown up in his face.

This is what I was going on about earlier in the thread. Making 1 mil  doesnt mean you get to keep it and sounds like these jokers somehow screwed the horse they rode in on and blew all or most of what they made. How?

Lets say each book costs 25$ to print. For 12000 books my quick estimate came to thats 300k.
Lets say shipping is on average 10$ each. More for some areas less for others. Thats another 120k.
Lets say 5000 donation books. There goes 175k
How many went to stores? Lets say another 5000. So another 175k
That is 650k gone right there and that might be a generous estimate depending on how much production and shipping really cost. And another 175k gone for every 5k more books.

If they are out of money then that suggests that production and shipping was more costly than my estimate. (Either that or they are scamming for more cash. Its a favored ploy of ponzi scheme publishers like Golden Bell.) And I know that at least one printer charges upwards of 40$ for a hardbound 300 page colour book. 30$ for a softbound. (My former printer used for my business could have gotten that done for alot less.) And that is not even getting into shipping costs.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 11:24:30 AM by Omega »

oggsmash

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Re: Coyote and Crow made sure to shame white people, now has regrets
« Reply #119 on: August 14, 2022, 04:48:06 PM »
Hmm...  I don't see how 'get woke go broke' still gets bandied about when the Kickstarter generated over $1 million in contributions.

I also don't think it's crazy to suggest buying a book/game that you may not play/read.  I have several RPG books that I bought because I wanted to mine them for ideas more than I actually wanted to play them.  And the fact that it offers A rule system that doesn’t focus on violence as the first option for story resolution seems like exactly the kind of thing that is worth looking at in more detail.

  You know how I know you work for someone and not yourself?  Because you think 1 million dollars is a lot of money for a business to generate, at least in the context that they can't be broke if they generate 1 million.   Gross and Net are very, very, very, very different words and things.