The classic era Call of Cthulhu artwork has always skirted the line between Pulp Action and Weird Horror.
That has probably been some of the appeal, as the game can speak to different aspirations.
Now the two flavours don't need to mix, as there actually are rules for both Pulp Cthulhu and standard CoC 7E.

For campaigns I prefer to play Pulp Cthulhu, and the games play like a cross between Agatha Christie meets Indy Jones, with a background of Eldritch threats.
The new rules add quite a bit to the game to help it rollick along at a pulpy pace. Great stuff.

However for one-shots I find the standard rules much better, as having vulnerable characters with the threat of TPK on the table makes for a great night's entertainment. I also don't think any of the new rules add hardly anything of value to the core game, and I think I prefer the 1E to 3E versions of Call of Cthulhu, they are much leaner and perfect for one-shots.

I totally agree that there has been some odd choices for the new art direction however.

The Pulp Cthulhu products have great artwork (and the Down Darker Trails also works well with this). Except for 'A Cold Fire Within', which has a cover that is just far too cartoony for my tastes, it just looks childish. I have no idea who they are aiming that at, but it doesn't say Pulp Investigation or Adventure to me, it looks like something from the Cartoon Network. Just plain awlful.

Despite that, I love what they are doing with most of the Pulp Cthulhu line, but the real problem is the current core CoC 7E rulebooks also look like they are made for Pulp Cthulhu.
The previous edition, CoC 6E had artwork with the creeping horror tone that suited the core game, but the core CoC 7E rulebooks all look like they are for Pulp Cthulhu.

The standard Call of Cthulhu line does seem to have totally lost it's cold horror edge.

So yeah, as a lover of both genres, I wish Chaosium would really stick in the lanes they have provided.
Whilst the Pulp Cthulhu game is great, the core Cthulhu line feels greatly diluted by comparison. Sure, the investigation and period setting elements are great for background content, but it's all become very politically correct and lame, and the actual threat of horror appears to be almost gone.
Delta Green seems to understand this, and the edge is there in that line, but I really wish Chaosium's core Call Of Cthulhu line was much darker.

Also 'Gateways To Terror' had a godawlful cartoony cover, and it wasn't even for Pulp Cthulhu, it is for the core CoC 7E line. I have no idea of it's content, but the cover killed any suspension of grim horror or creeping investigation for me. From the outset it looked completely inappropropriate, it is something that will attract the primary/elementary school age group.
I do see that the book now has another cover, it looks much better. Although still looks like something for Pulp Cthulhu, it's not unerving enough for classic Cthulhu.

So I think a horror game with the weird edge of the 70s/80s horror flicks might actually catch an eye or two on the gaming shelves.

I know it would catch my eye, I was one of those kids who used to check out all the video rental covers in the horror section, it was really visceral and twisted, yet fascinating and totally absorbing.
The British horrors were often unsettling and dripping in ambience, the European horrors were sexy-weird-mondo-twisted, and the American horrors were often intense thrillers or junky slashers. Lots of exploitation material to boot. Some completely near-senseless gonzo plots, mixed in with some really well-crafted storylines that put many today's writers to shame.
Ghost Stories were really unsettling. Slasher Flicks were harsh gorefests. Thrillers truly had you on the edge of your seat. Morality was a blurring line. It add added up to a crazy intense mess of a genre that, whilst not gone, doesn't seem to be present anywhere near as much these days.

I'm not sure if I would want things going that dark in a game on a regular basis, but something with that edge would really be great for one-shot sessions.

Quote from: Mankcam;1127600I love what they are doing with Pulp Cthulhu, but the problem is the current core CoC 7E rulebooks also look like they are made for Pulp Cthulhu.

Part of my problem with 7e is that its designers seemed intent on blunting the horror... in favor of what, I'm not sure. They're original proposal was even farther afield.
If all that had been left to Pulp Cthulhu I could have happily ignored it, or played it for a change of pace... but its the core game. So meh, I'll stick with 5e and Delta Green.
As you mention, Delta Green has remained intent on the horror elements, while trying some interesting things that enhance that focus.

QuoteSo I think a horror game with the weird edge of the 70s/80s horror flicks might actually catch an eye or two on the gaming shelves.

Some of the images posted earlier have me thinking I'd like to play something with a giallo flavor to it. I love Italian and Spanish horror movies, they're not necessarily supernatural horror, not always, but always great atmosphere with a sense of lurking evil and madness. Italian horror comics as well (I think the source for many of the stories in old Creepy/Eerie).
One thing about them that works for RPGs is that they often feature small groups of people trying to solve the mystery... vs. a lot of horror fiction that focuses on a lone individual.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1127494Simon, on DriveThruRPG, your full size preview is only the generic character sheet. It would be interesting to see more so people can get a better understanding. Also, is it for sale in dead tree on Amazon?

I'll see what I can do about the preview. It's picking up the separate (included) character sheet rather than the book itself. It's not on Amazon - it's on LULU though.

Quote from: Mankcam;1127600The standard Call of Cthulhu line does seem to have totally lost it's cold horror edge.

So yeah, as a lover of both genres, I wish Chaosium would really stick in the lanes they have provided.
Whilst the Pulp Cthulhu game is great, the core Cthulhu line feels greatly diluted by comparison. Sure, the investigation and period setting elements are great for background content, but it's all become very politically correct and lame, and the actual threat of horror appears to be almost gone.
Delta Green seems to understand this, and the edge is there in that line, but I really wish Chaosium's core Call Of Cthulhu line was much darker.

Also 'Gareways To Terror' has a godawlful cartoony cover, and it wasn't even for Pulp Cthulhu, it is for the core CoC 7E line. I have no idea of it's content, but the cover kills any suspension of grim horror or creeping investigation for me. From the outset it looks completely inappropropriate, it is something that will attract the primary/elementary school age group.

Chaosium probably needs to put out a separate line of mystery and adventure games aimed at children, as that is the only place covers like 'A Cold Fire Within' and 'Gateways To Terror' will shine. They just have no place within the rest of the game, and currently they are an embaressment.

So I think a horror game with the weird edge of the 70s/80s horror flicks might actually catch an eye or two on the gaming shelves.

I know it would catch my eye, I was one of those kids who used to check out all the video rental covers in the horror section, it was really visceral and twisted, yet fascinating and totally absorbing.
The British horrors were often unsettling and dripping in ambience, the European horrors were sexy-weird-mondo-twisted, and the American horrors were often intense thrillers or junky slashers. Lots of exploitation material to boot. Some completely near-senseless gonzo plots, mixed in with some really well-crafted storylines that put many today's writers to shame.
Ghost Stories were really unsettling. Slasher Flicks were harsh gorefests. Thrillers truly had you on the edge of your seat. Morality was a blurring line. It add added up to a crazy intense mess of a genre that, whilst not gone, doesn't seem to be present anywhere near as much these days.

I'm not sure if I would want things going that dark in a game on a regular basis, but something with that edge would really be great for one-shot sessions.

That would probably be a generic game's strength though, to be able to encompass the different chiller/horror genres. A Silence of the lambs-like chase for some serial killer would have a very different tone, pace and locus of control (they are trained and armed cops/FBI-agents) vs survival at Camp Blood with potsmoking, dumb and horny teens becoming targets of Jason Voorhees or Cropsy. The FBI could also be a 19th century secret society/club who hunts or studies the horrors of the night, drawing more from Van Helsing in the vein of Stoker's material or Hammer horrors material. Steadfast people who are still filled with fear whenever they come across a legend that turns out to be true but with experience and learning to lean on instead of über fighting skills and gear in the vein of Wesley Snipes Blade.

Quote from: Simlasa;1127603Part of my problem with 7e is that its designers seemed intent on blunting the horror... in favor of what, I'm not sure. They're original proposal was even farther afield.
If all that had been left to Pulp Cthulhu I could have happily ignored it, or played it for a change of pace... but its the core game. So meh, I'll stick with 5e and Delta Green.
As you mention, Delta Green has remained intent on the horror elements, while trying some interesting things that enhance that focus.

Some of the images posted earlier have me thinking I'd like to play something with a giallo flavor to it. I love Italian and Spanish horror movies, they're not necessarily supernatural horror, not always, but always great atmosphere with a sense of lurking evil and madness. Italian horror comics as well (I think the source for many of the stories in old Creepy/Eerie).
One thing about them that works for RPGs is that they often feature small groups of people trying to solve the mystery... vs. a lot of horror fiction that focuses on a lone individual.

]

I agree on Chaosium blunting the horror from the beginning in the 7th edition. The sprawling quality of the interior art doesn't help. In a time when great artists are a dime a dozen it bewilders me when I look at the art and layout. I like 7th edition, but from a stylistical view point it's a mess. They should have gone with one great artist to begin with, or at least artists that have very similar tones and styles.

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For medieval horror, you can use my Cults of Chaos book (with L&D or any OSR game) to create an "inquisitors" campaign where the PCs are investigators trying to uncover and defeat nefarious individuals and groups bringing terror to medieval communities.

I like the setting of Kult, but its aesthetics are nowhere mainstream enough to challenge CoC.
Are there any good non-D&D based games that cover similar territory to Ravenloft? A mix of Universal/Hammer horror minus the overt D&Disms (orcs, elves, goofy magic, etc.)... add a bit of romance? Maybe adding in elements of the darker European takes on those stories... like some of the Mario Bava movies. Something like a Captain Kronos, Vampire Hunter game would be fun... and not too horribly grisly (unless you wanted it to be).

Quote from: Simlasa;1127801...
Are there any good non-D&D based games that cover similar territory to Ravenloft? A mix of Universal/Hammer horror minus the overt D&Disms (orcs, elves, goofy magic, etc.)... add a bit of romance? Maybe adding in elements of the darker European takes on those stories...

Not familiar with your references, but this is a solid suggestion just on this part alone. :-)

Quote from: trechriron;1127802Not familiar with your references...

Mario Bava? Captain Kronos?

Mario Bava made some great old horror films... as much style as substance. They'd fit right into a Ravenloft soup. Look up Black Sunday (1960) and Black Sabbath (1963).

Captain Kronos is a swashbuckling Hammer hero, along with his hunchback assistant, Hieronymus Grost, and pal Caroline Munroe.. out to defeat the infamous Karnestein family (going under a different name). It was meant to be a series but only one was made.

Salem's Lot was the best.  I'd like to play in that campaign, myself.  One of my favorite old horror movies.

"Face the master!!!"

Quote from: Simlasa;1127801Are there any good non-D&D based games that cover similar territory to Ravenloft? A mix of Universal/Hammer horror minus the overt D&Disms (orcs, elves, goofy magic, etc.)... add a bit of romance? Maybe adding in elements of the darker European takes on those stories... like some of the Mario Bava movies. Something like a Captain Kronos, Vampire Hunter game would be fun... and not too horribly grisly (unless you wanted it to be).

Many years ago I designed a "Captain Kronos" rpg. It was available for free download. No idea whether I even still have it on a disk somewhere (it wasn't all that good). The nearest thing I have now is Sabres & Witchery - it doesn't meet your non-D&D base though.

Quote from: Groom of the Stool;1127218As per suggestion in the thread about Chaosium and their so called OGL I start a new topic for people who love all things horror and horror rpgs especially. In that thread I made references to an imagined rpg based on older horror from the 70s and 80s, in my mind the golden era of horror. The horror I grew up with, love and collect to this day.

Since what I'm aiming for is very hard to put into words, unless you are a hardcore horror fan yourself, I will begin by using a few images to discuss the points of ambience, layout, etc. A new rpg based on older horror would obviously need to have the visuals to even begin to challenge something as deeply rooted as Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu.

Is the hypothetical horror RPG solely based around d100?

One game that was passed onto me, that I ended up enjoying was Slasher Flick. Never seemed to have caught on, and the scope was purely slasher films (as the name obviously implies). But there were a few things that stood out to me.

1. The players create not only their main characters, but also a group of secondary characters (which they play during kill scenes and act as backup characters). Characters are designed to emulate the genre, and players are rewarded for doing the stupid things that characters in horror movies shouldn't be doing (like saying "I'll be right back" or running upstairs instead of out the back door). The game master also creates NPC's.

2. The Killer has no stats. It is a force to be reckon with and the players have no chance of killing him off for good until the climax.

3. Scenes with the Killer are resolved with a Survival rating that rises and falls as actions are attempted. If it falls below a certain number, you die. If it goes above a set number, you escape. It has good tension there, and helps emulate the genre beyond the normal attack rolls and hit points of mainstream games.

4. Characters do not improve. Makes sense, as games are meant to be one-offs. Rules exist to bring back surviving characters, as well as the Killer.

The game itself is more story-based than most of the horror games out there. I rarely play story games. The characters actually have stats and skills in this, so it's at least a plus for me. While it may not be everyone's cup of tea, Slasher Flick at least captures the feel of a horror movie. I have thought about using it to run some Lovecraftian horror, as the lack of in-depth combat rules (and its one shot set up) seems to make it feel more ideal for the kinds of violent, bloody horror movies I grew up with, and fits the writings of Lovecraft's uncaring universe more than a setting that allows you to blow the piss out of the monsters and increase your skills.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now...

Of course, Harry Potter's Wizarding World is a horror setting, if you're a muggle.  So, in a sense there has been a break away Hammer horror + D&Disms media property in the last 20 years.

That has me thinking of a Boyz-inspired Hunter: The Vigil game where the PCs are muggles out to blow up Hogwart's.

I've always wanted to run a horror game where the evil sorcerer's base turns out to be Hogwarts.  It's one of those campaigns where the DM needs an escape route.