"Cool people don't play RPGs" (from the Enworld thread)

[Grimjack]

Most of the people I've played with have been Air Force and Navy, plus an ex-army private investigator.

Militaria is a branch of nerdness, so I don't think service people qualify as "cool", but it certainly undermines the common belief that gamers are pale basement-dwellers, detached from the real world.

The irony is greater because some of the guys I've played with took part in military actions that the mainstream jockocracy considers hardcore.
Posted in Mobile Mode

That is a good point since there were nerds in the group, but they were nerds who got to drop bombs and shoot people and such so they may need a new category for service members: "Mili-Nerds" or something.

[Spike]

I submit that if you must consider a term like 'Mili-nerds', or suggest that soldiers are nerds because they like militaria... just like many nerds... that you've broadened the definition of nerd out to uselessness.

I am sure there are nerds who become soldiers (though by a traditional defition of nerdiness they probably leave the nerdiness behind, or only suffer in comparision to other soldiers...)

This excessive fascination with pigeonholing and status quo-ism (once a nerd, always a nerd...) is only interesting academically. Personally, its disturbing.

[Grimjack]

I submit that if you must consider a term like 'Mili-nerds', or suggest that soldiers are nerds because they like militaria... just like many nerds... that you've broadened the definition of nerd out to uselessness.

I am sure there are nerds who become soldiers (though by a traditional defition of nerdiness they probably leave the nerdiness behind, or only suffer in comparision to other soldiers...)

This excessive fascination with pigeonholing and status quo-ism (once a nerd, always a nerd...) is only interesting academically. Personally, its disturbing.

I can't imagine thinking a soldier was a nerd for liking militaria.

Actually I think you hit the point I was trying to make better than I did, which is that even if some of the guys I gamed with in the ROTC may have been nerds back in college they outgrew it by the time they got out of basic training but they kept right on gaming.  

And I agree about pigeonholing, it is rarely accurate and therefore useless.

[jibbajibba]

I can't imagine thinking a soldier was a nerd for liking militaria.

Actually I think you hit the point I was trying to make better than I did, which is that even if some of the guys I gamed with in the ROTC may have been nerds back in college they outgrew it by the time they got out of basic training but they kept right on gaming.  

And I agree about pigeonholing, it is rarely accurate and therefore useless.

The implication here is that all soldiers are cool... WTF? You have met soldiers right?
Look own you inner geek. Role players are not cool we are geeky, nerdy bookish folks you get a kick of pretending to be other people/things and working out ways of simulating that experience through a combination of rules, randomisation and lets-pretend.We are not cool. just accept it.

[Age of Fable]

I would have thought that people who join the military would be nerds in the sense of 'socially awkward and so looking for structured forms of interaction', but also would be people who liked sport and the outdoors.

[Koltar]

It could be a lot simpler than that.

First 6 months the game store was open, in mid 2004 - soldier came in on his leave and said he learned to play D&D while in Afghanistan.

He never played it in Hugfh School.


He said he liked the game because it was really fun to play.


- Ed C.

[The Shaman]

Who who?

I was making a "life on the D-list" joke.

[shalvayez]

I play RPGs and I'm cooler than all of ya put together.  

[Spike]

The implication here is that all soldiers are cool... WTF? You have met soldiers right?
Look own you inner geek. Role players are not cool we are geeky, nerdy bookish folks you get a kick of pretending to be other people/things and working out ways of simulating that experience through a combination of rules, randomisation and lets-pretend.We are not cool. just accept it.

False dichotomy.  Nerd and cool are not opposite ends of a spectrum, nor are they a binary pair of polar opposites.

No one claimed that soldiers were cool. That's a case by case consideration. What we said was that going by a traditional definition of 'Nerd', a soldier is disqualified due to the requirements of the job, and by a more liberal definition can only be considered 'nerdy' in comparison to other soldiers.

Look: the job is hard, physical and involves dangerous shit like guns and explosives and so on.  Even if you want to claim a 'nerd' status for some reason, as a soldier, the traditional arbiters of 'nerdiness'... that is to say high school and college kids would be very hard pressed to make a solid case without looking like utter tools.

[aramis]

False dichotomy.  Nerd and cool are not opposite ends of a spectrum, nor are they a binary pair of polar opposites.

No one claimed that soldiers were cool. That's a case by case consideration. What we said was that going by a traditional definition of 'Nerd', a soldier is disqualified due to the requirements of the job, and by a more liberal definition can only be considered 'nerdy' in comparison to other soldiers.

Look: the job is hard, physical and involves dangerous shit like guns and explosives and so on.  Even if you want to claim a 'nerd' status for some reason, as a soldier, the traditional arbiters of 'nerdiness'... that is to say high school and college kids would be very hard pressed to make a solid case without looking like utter tools.

For every hardbody in the dirt, there are 8 REMFS. (Rear Eschelon Mother F*ing S*heads... explitive form the asterisks as seen fit.) And most of those REMFS are desk-jockeys... and many are soft-bodies that make kyle's avvie look like Mr. Universe, rather than merely top 5%...

Were it for the Physical Fitness tests, we'd see a lot more tubbies in  the ranks of the REMFS... The paper pushers don't need to do a lot of lift and tote. The fittest REMFS are the medics and civil engineers...

[Spike]

As I said: there are gradiations within the collective body of persons known as 'soldiers'.

However, collectively, regardless of gradiations those individuals have shot guns and been held to physical standards that are tougher than 'nerd' in the traditional sense, with assorted other factors.

Even if you expand the 'soldiers' to include Naval personnel and Airmen (who, collectively are entire corps of people that could be considered 'REMFs', leaving aside the pararescue guys, maybe the fighter jocks, and the SEALs...), the fact is that they do stuff that is outside 'nerd-dom' on a regular basis... often involving heavy machinery and/or death dealing shit, even if that 'regular basis' is twice a year.

[aramis]

As I said: there are gradiations within the collective body of persons known as 'soldiers'.

However, collectively, regardless of gradiations those individuals have shot guns and been held to physical standards that are tougher than 'nerd' in the traditional sense, with assorted other factors.

Even if you expand the 'soldiers' to include Naval personnel and Airmen (who, collectively are entire corps of people that could be considered 'REMFs', leaving aside the pararescue guys, maybe the fighter jocks, and the SEALs...), the fact is that they do stuff that is outside 'nerd-dom' on a regular basis... often involving heavy machinery and/or death dealing shit, even if that 'regular basis' is twice a year.

Dude, I live next to an army base... Fort Richardson- "Pot bellies R us"... home of the 172d hunting and fishing...

The guys in good shape are deployed. The guys left behind are not, and outnumber the combat arms by a large margin. Hell, a lot of guys get riffed over weight, and take over the exact same job as a civil servant.

The Army alone has an 8:1 support:combat arms, not counting combat-unit-attached mechanics in the arty and armor as support. (DOD, 2002.) Medics, civil engineers, mechanics, they tend to be in good shape because the job requires it. Personnel clerks, supply clerks, computer techs, intel analysts, signal intercept... many don't even get daily PT. The modern army isn't mostly combattants, and hasn't been since about 1946...

[Spike]

Dude, I live next to an army base... Fort Richardson- "Pot bellies R us"... home of the 172d hunting and fishing...

The guys in good shape are deployed. The guys left behind are not, and outnumber the combat arms by a large margin. Hell, a lot of guys get riffed over weight, and take over the exact same job as a civil servant.

The Army alone has an 8:1 support:combat arms, not counting combat-unit-attached mechanics in the arty and armor as support. (DOD, 2002.) Medics, civil engineers, mechanics, they tend to be in good shape because the job requires it. Personnel clerks, supply clerks, computer techs, intel analysts, signal intercept... many don't even get daily PT. The modern army isn't mostly combattants, and hasn't been since about 1946...

None of that is in dispute. What IS in dispute is that your comment in any way makes those remf's 'NERDS'.

Okay, one dispute: Obviously you have never worked a logistics job in your life or you wouldn't have included supply clerks in your 'fat barstards' litany.  As near as I recall the minimum standards of fitness for supply personnel include: the ability to lift a 150 lb box and put in on an 8 foot high shelf unassisted and to transport a 300 lb weight 100 yards with assistance.

I can not speak for Fort Richardson, as I've never heard of it or the 172nd, though that is neighter here nor there, but of the three Army bases I've lived near 'fat' soldiers were in the distinct minority. Then too: Fat is not synonimous with 'nerd'.

[Kyle Aaron]

I can't believe we're discussing "soldier" and "nerd" as if these were some kind of scientific taxonomical thing. "This is the skull of homo sapiens sapiens, this is the skull of homo erectus, this one of homo nerdus, and this one homo soldierus. The nerdus is identifiable by the usb port in the side. Excuse the bullet hole in the soldierus, he had a stoppage and looked down the barrel to see if it was loaded."

Seriously, what the fuck? "Nerd" is just an insult or self-deprecating joke. It's not some scientific category with detailed parameters and stuff.

[Xanther]

....

Seriously, what the fuck? "Nerd" is just an insult or self-deprecating joke. It's not some scientific category with detailed parameters and stuff.

Are you so sure?
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