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Contemplating Medieval China Campaign Theme

Started by SHARK, January 18, 2022, 07:06:33 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Rhymer88

Quote from: SHARK on January 19, 2022, 09:04:33 PM
Quote from: Pat on January 18, 2022, 08:33:41 PM
It is tough introducing a significantly different setting in RPGs. In a movie, there are all those visuals. In a book, you can have hundreds of pages of descriptive prose. But nobody except a GM is going to read all that crap to play an RPG, and RPGs aren't just passive pre-scripted entertainment, they're freeform and active, which makes it much harder.

The best way might to create a bridge. A way to start in a more familiar setting, and introduce the elements either gradually or through immersion, but with the expectation it's as new to the characters as it is to the players. It can be a distant realm with travelers who visit the PC's home, and maybe take a trip there. It could be a magical gate, or a ship blown off course and sunk, where the PCs are dumped into a new realm and have adapt to the local customs and power structures. The stranger in a strange land is a hoary and effective motif.

Greetings!

Hey there, Pat! Yeah, indeed, I suspect you are right. I will probably have them make their normal characters, then have them go on a great journey and arrive in the China-like empire. Having them roll up native China-like characters might be too overwhelming or them. *Laughing*

Though, you know, honestly, I realize there is this perception, but in my own studies of Ancient China, and Ancient India, both on my own study and for my university course work, much of the differences are often cosmetic. Politically, militarily, economically, family relationships, inheritance--they have all the same issues that Europeans have, from any time period. Similar problems, similar solutions, similar struggles. I often found myself drawing connections between China and India with ancient Greece, the Roman Empire, Charlemagne, Emperor Justinian and Byzantium, Grand Prince Vladimir of Rus--it all seems relatable to me, personally.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Pre-industrial societies generally have a lot in common with one another. However, it's a problem when you try to make historically-based settings, because most players have a totally 21st century Western mindset. It's also why most "European" D&D settings are, in fact, primarily American in style.  The values and worldview of Medieval Europe would be completely alien to most D&D players today.

SHARK

Quote from: Persimmon on January 18, 2022, 09:40:07 PM
The old Kara Tur boxed set has plenty of inspirational material.  Not sure if it's even available nowadays due to issues of political correctness.  Several of the recent wuxia rpgs like "Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate" & "Righteous Blood, Ruthless Blades," offer good setting info.  I think the latter would be pretty easy for most players to gronk if they've seen a few martial arts films.  And it's got plenty of NPCs you could probably convert over to your preferred system if you don't use that one.

My own campaign setting features lands derived from China (more Tang era, though), Japan, and Korea, though these are not necessarily the main areas of action.  I've done one campaign mostly there. 

Personally, I favor the Ming-Qing eras as those are my areas of academic specialty.  But there's enough info out there in English to do pretty much any era of Chinese history.  And many of the major novels & short stories have been translated so you can easily find plots and setting details.  Monkey & Water Margin are probably the best for that, or one of the martial arts novels by Jin Yong.  If you want stuff specifically on the Song, let me know and I can make recommendations.  Water Margin is set in the Song, but was written in the Ming.

Greetings!

Good Morning, Persimmon! Excellent! Yes, I actually have an original Kara Tur Boxed Set in my collection. I'll have to dig it out!

You specialized in the Ming/Qing Dynasties? Damn, that's awesome, my friend! Where did you go to school for that? Did your school have a great Asian Studies Program? That's so cool. I love it!

Myself, my main focus was Ancient & Medieval Europe, specializing in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. My university required us to select two secondary specialties--I picked American History, and Asian History, specializing in Ancient China & Ancient India. My university even established its own special Yadunandan Center for India Studies. I was going to take courses in Sanskrit, ahh, but geesus. You know how crazy the course work can be like at upper levels. There's only so much you can do in a set time frame.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Greentongue

I wonder if having real "Immortals" would still allow the fall by corruption or if it would actually be faster?
A "divine" central leader seems common. Though not unique to Asian kingdoms.

SHARK

Quote from: S'mon on January 19, 2022, 02:28:03 AM
I've read some enlightening descriptions of why medieval China was so different from medieval Europe. The major factors seem to be (a) rice - more calories per acre, higher population density and especially (b) hygiene - Chinese cities were kept very clean, which allowed for much bigger cities.

However China was still in the 'Malthusian Trap' and the result of higher populations and less disease was that China was much closer to the starvation line, with lower income per household and frequent severe famines. Europe had plague, China had famine.

Greetings!

Hey S'mon! How are you my friend? Have you ever met Professor Michael Wood? He's a pretty prominent historian that teaches just up the road from you, at the University of Manchester! He seems like an awesome fellow, a great gentleman, and solid scholar. Professor Wood maintains that the people of the Song Dynasty were very well-fed; even the middle and poorer classes were eating good. He says they were probably the best fed population in the world.

Also interesting, famine often arrived in China after the Yellow River flooded periodically. The Yellow River floods would often kill *millions* of people, with several million more dying of famine. That's staggering to think about, you know? It blew me away learning about that!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Bedrockbrendan

Shark if you haven't already read it, I highly recommend the book Dividing the Realm in order to Govern: The Spatial Organization of the Song Dynasty. That is a very useful one for helping with world building. Another one I find I go back to a lot is Law and Order in the Sung China by Brian E McKnight (again helpful information for world building purposes). If you can find a copy, A Dictionary of Official Titles in Imperial China by Charles O Hucker is a useful thing to have at the table during play and when you are making adventures (the imperial bureaucracy is very important and knowing different official positions and their ranks---the dictionary doesn't give the ranks for all of them, but does provide many of the ranks---is really helpful). The entries also say which time periods the titles belong to (and usually gives information if the title changed). It is a bit messy at times, but the book is so chock full of stuff you can use. The beginning of the book also briefly covers the government structure of the different dynasties.

SHARK

Quote from: Opaopajr on January 19, 2022, 04:06:49 AM
;) Song dynasty is a fascinating contradiction. You have to give allowance for a lot of... how to nicely put it... hagiography and good PR because this was a period of simultaneous contraction and loss of homeland (Northern Song & Huang Ho Yellow river), and forced colonization (Nam Viet (not Vietnam, mind you!) & Yangtze river) and displacement (Haka peoples, Northern Song refugees, technically Han, but treated like Han+).

Technically not capitalist, more entrepeneurial, but that also led to special dispensations and immunities to their displaced northern bretheren Haka (the Northern Song), which in turn led to speculation bubbles and great religious revivals, millenarial cults, and much turmoil within and throughout. And the 'barbarians' were winning piece by piece all along the fringes. And all of this news was collated by a counter-reformationist Neo-Confucianism that sought to "clean up" the records to set a good future example to follow. Basically literati rewriting things to win the future of a decaying empire with the right-thinking narratives.  ;) The world may not repeat, but it rhymes -- thanks Matk Twain.

It was an interesting time no doubt, but read from the surrounding outsider lands and internally dispossessed the fissures were very real as the sanctioned choir sang louder. A great period full of contradictions and veneered decadence.

(edit: also little known was China was VERY LATE to the rice game. It was because of the Yangtze river colonization during the Southern Song (and loss of the Huang Ho Yellow river that was wheat growing in Norther Song) that China switched to rice around 1000 CE (AD). Before them Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Ryuukyuu Island (Pirate Isles), good part of SE and South Asia, as well as Persia and Caspian & Tigris Euphrates delta (Basra), was well acquainted with rice for at least a millennia, some even more than one. Rice domestication in Asia being sourced to the Red River by Hanoi and Caspian and Oxus and Mesopotamian Persian Gulf delta in Persia. Strange how technology spreads and can skip areas for long periods -- the Chinese elites favored their wheat until they had to flee their home river.)

Also good to see you back, SHARK!  :D

Greetings!

Thank you, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

SHARK

Quote from: Rhymer88 on January 19, 2022, 12:33:40 PM
The Chinese produce tons of series that are set in the Middle Ages. Needless to say, you can use them as inspiration.
The most notable one atm is Luoyang, although it is set in the Tang Dynasty, not Song:



Greetings!

This program looks awesome!

I will definitely be tracking this program down!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

SHARK

Quote from: RebelSky on January 19, 2022, 02:07:26 PM
In doing a non-Ancient or Medieval French/England European Setting the focus of the setting has to be its culture and religious/spiritual outlooks on things and how different they are from bog standard European Fantasy. This also includes the cultures Myths and Legends, if there is a pantheon of deities and spiritual ways of life and the way these influence their society.

12th to 14th century European Medieval fantasy has been hammered into us so much that it's become the only form of medieval life that many of us see and a lot of people seem to think that that's how the entire world was like because of this. Even a setting in Europe but placed earlier in history and in a different culture, like how Aquelarre is set in Medieval Spain, has a totally different feel and look to it even though it should be part of the Medieval Europe motif, but it's not.

Ancient and Medieval China definitely needs more attention brought to it.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Indeed, Rebelsky, so true, huh? It's kind of sad when you run into people that believe it's only possible to have an army of 5 or 10,000 soldiers in a medieval environment. The Emperor Huangdi at 50 A.D. raised over 1,000,000 troops in his ferocious army, as he conquered the other seven kingdoms to unify all of China and become the first Emperor. Many people's reference points are also very narrow, simply because they haven't read enough, or broadly enough. So many different things going on in Russia; in India; in Ancient China. Like you said, even in southern France things were different. Hammered into us is right, huh?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Persimmon

Quote from: SHARK on January 20, 2022, 06:52:10 AM
Quote from: Persimmon on January 18, 2022, 09:40:07 PM
The old Kara Tur boxed set has plenty of inspirational material.  Not sure if it's even available nowadays due to issues of political correctness.  Several of the recent wuxia rpgs like "Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate" & "Righteous Blood, Ruthless Blades," offer good setting info.  I think the latter would be pretty easy for most players to gronk if they've seen a few martial arts films.  And it's got plenty of NPCs you could probably convert over to your preferred system if you don't use that one.

My own campaign setting features lands derived from China (more Tang era, though), Japan, and Korea, though these are not necessarily the main areas of action.  I've done one campaign mostly there. 

Personally, I favor the Ming-Qing eras as those are my areas of academic specialty.  But there's enough info out there in English to do pretty much any era of Chinese history.  And many of the major novels & short stories have been translated so you can easily find plots and setting details.  Monkey & Water Margin are probably the best for that, or one of the martial arts novels by Jin Yong.  If you want stuff specifically on the Song, let me know and I can make recommendations.  Water Margin is set in the Song, but was written in the Ming.

Greetings!

Good Morning, Persimmon! Excellent! Yes, I actually have an original Kara Tur Boxed Set in my collection. I'll have to dig it out!

You specialized in the Ming/Qing Dynasties? Damn, that's awesome, my friend! Where did you go to school for that? Did your school have a great Asian Studies Program? That's so cool. I love it!

Myself, my main focus was Ancient & Medieval Europe, specializing in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. My university required us to select two secondary specialties--I picked American History, and Asian History, specializing in Ancient China & Ancient India. My university even established its own special Yadunandan Center for India Studies. I was going to take courses in Sanskrit, ahh, but geesus. You know how crazy the course work can be like at upper levels. There's only so much you can do in a set time frame.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Hey Shark,

I got my B.A. at The College of Wooster (OH) and my M.A. & Ph.D. at the University of Michigan.  I did my archival research at the Academia Sinica in Taiwan.  Since graduating I've done research in Korea, Japan, and mainland China.  I specialize in Ming-Qing military history.  I currently teach at Southern Miss and serve as the Book Review Editor of The Journal of Chinese Military History. 

If you're super interested you can find my books on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Dragons-Head-Serpents-Tail-Commanders/dp/0806155817/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2XW49XIJBEQ6S&keywords=a+dragon%27s+head+and+a+serpent%27s+tail&qid=1642685120&sprefix=a+dragon%27s+%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-1
https://www.amazon.com/Military-Collapse-Dynasty-1618-44-Empires-ebook/dp/B00I06LPK0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1Y6YJ21YZIFL1&keywords=the+military+collapse+of+china%27s+ming+dynasty&qid=1642685167&sprefix=the+military+collapse+of+china%27s+ming+dynasty%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-1
https://www.amazon.com/Trail-Yellow-Tiger-Dislocation-Transition/dp/0803249950/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1DDY3VACU2COZ&
keywords=on+the+trail+of+the+yellow+tiger&qid=1642685225&sprefix=on+the+trail+of+the+yellow+tiger%2Caps%2C106&sr=8-1

My current book is a military biography of General Zuo Zongtang (1812-1885), known to Americans as the namesake of General Zuo's chicken, but known in China for helping suppress the Taiping Rebellion, which was the largest civil war in world history, then crushing a series of Muslim revolts in the northwest and Central Asia which resulted in the creation of Xinjiang province, currently a hotbed of Uighur unrest.

As I said, your proposed campaign sounds great & I look forward to hearing about it!

SHARK

Quote from: Persimmon on January 19, 2022, 09:21:21 PM
Not that it matters for roleplaying purposes, but the Song is not regarded as "medieval" China.  Only specialists in European history would apply such a designation to the Song.  It is generally considered early modern, or perhaps late imperial, with the Ming (1368-1644) generally being considered the advent of modern China by specialists.  For example, per capita iron production rates achieved in the Song were not surpassed elsewhere in the world until the Industrial Revolution.  And Shark has already mentioned many other notable traits.

For adventuring purposes, having your players go to the mysterious Celestial Empire of (insert name here) to say, retrieve a rare herb, magic item, or scroll, or help sign a treaty against a common enemy would all be good ways to introduce them to this "exotic" place.  The old Horde boxed set for AD&D 2e has stuff you could use, or maybe wait for Pundit to publish his Silk Road game.  And, as we've discussed there are plenty of real world sources to mine from Marco Polo to William of Rubruck.  好運!

Greetings!

Yeah, Persimmon, *Raises Hand*. I'm guilty of not getting out of my European History framework when thinking of time frames in Chinese Dynasties.

I like the idea of sending the group to the "Celestial Empire" like a baby pool, and gradually letting them swim in the shallow end. I don't want them overwhelmed with cultural, religious, political, and social details in a flood. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Persimmon

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on January 20, 2022, 07:23:48 AM
Shark if you haven't already read it, I highly recommend the book Dividing the Realm in order to Govern: The Spatial Organization of the Song Dynasty. That is a very useful one for helping with world building. Another one I find I go back to a lot is Law and Order in the Sung China by Brian E McKnight (again helpful information for world building purposes). If you can find a copy, A Dictionary of Official Titles in Imperial China by Charles O Hucker is a useful thing to have at the table during play and when you are making adventures (the imperial bureaucracy is very important and knowing different official positions and their ranks---the dictionary doesn't give the ranks for all of them, but does provide many of the ranks---is really helpful). The entries also say which time periods the titles belong to (and usually gives information if the title changed). It is a bit messy at times, but the book is so chock full of stuff you can use. The beginning of the book also briefly covers the government structure of the different dynasties.

Good old Charles Hucker.  We had to buy that book in grad school for my course in Song history because we were reading the primary sources.  I'm still reaching for it from time to time.  And the book also has organizational charts for the central governments of the various dynasties.

SHARK

Quote from: Rhymer88 on January 20, 2022, 06:50:28 AM
Quote from: SHARK on January 19, 2022, 09:04:33 PM
Quote from: Pat on January 18, 2022, 08:33:41 PM
It is tough introducing a significantly different setting in RPGs. In a movie, there are all those visuals. In a book, you can have hundreds of pages of descriptive prose. But nobody except a GM is going to read all that crap to play an RPG, and RPGs aren't just passive pre-scripted entertainment, they're freeform and active, which makes it much harder.

The best way might to create a bridge. A way to start in a more familiar setting, and introduce the elements either gradually or through immersion, but with the expectation it's as new to the characters as it is to the players. It can be a distant realm with travelers who visit the PC's home, and maybe take a trip there. It could be a magical gate, or a ship blown off course and sunk, where the PCs are dumped into a new realm and have adapt to the local customs and power structures. The stranger in a strange land is a hoary and effective motif.

Greetings!

Hey there, Pat! Yeah, indeed, I suspect you are right. I will probably have them make their normal characters, then have them go on a great journey and arrive in the China-like empire. Having them roll up native China-like characters might be too overwhelming or them. *Laughing*

Though, you know, honestly, I realize there is this perception, but in my own studies of Ancient China, and Ancient India, both on my own study and for my university course work, much of the differences are often cosmetic. Politically, militarily, economically, family relationships, inheritance--they have all the same issues that Europeans have, from any time period. Similar problems, similar solutions, similar struggles. I often found myself drawing connections between China and India with ancient Greece, the Roman Empire, Charlemagne, Emperor Justinian and Byzantium, Grand Prince Vladimir of Rus--it all seems relatable to me, personally.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Pre-industrial societies generally have a lot in common with one another. However, it's a problem when you try to make historically-based settings, because most players have a totally 21st century Western mindset. It's also why most "European" D&D settings are, in fact, primarily American in style.  The values and worldview of Medieval Europe would be completely alien to most D&D players today.

Greeting!

Oh, yes, Rhymer88! *Laughing* It is definitely a challenge trying to get people to not view things in-game like it is the 21st Century America. So true! The values and worldview of Medieval Europe would be completely alien to most D&D players today! Oh, you KNOW that's right!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

SHARK

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on January 20, 2022, 07:23:48 AM
Shark if you haven't already read it, I highly recommend the book Dividing the Realm in order to Govern: The Spatial Organization of the Song Dynasty. That is a very useful one for helping with world building. Another one I find I go back to a lot is Law and Order in the Sung China by Brian E McKnight (again helpful information for world building purposes). If you can find a copy, A Dictionary of Official Titles in Imperial China by Charles O Hucker is a useful thing to have at the table during play and when you are making adventures (the imperial bureaucracy is very important and knowing different official positions and their ranks---the dictionary doesn't give the ranks for all of them, but does provide many of the ranks---is really helpful). The entries also say which time periods the titles belong to (and usually gives information if the title changed). It is a bit messy at times, but the book is so chock full of stuff you can use. The beginning of the book also briefly covers the government structure of the different dynasties.

Greetings!

Thank you, BedrockBrendan! Those sound like excellent resources. I love all the crazy details!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Opaopajr

#43
Quote from: Persimmon on January 19, 2022, 08:51:03 AM
Quote from: Opaopajr on January 19, 2022, 04:06:49 AM
;) Song dynasty is a fascinating contradiction. You have to give allowance for a lot of... how to nicely put it... hagiography and good PR because this was a period of simultaneous contraction and loss of homeland (Northern Song & Huang Ho Yellow river), and forced colonization (Nam Viet (not Vietnam, mind you!) & Yangtze river) and displacement (Haka peoples, Northern Song refugees, technically Han, but treated like Han+).

Technically not capitalist, more entrepeneurial, but that also led to special dispensations and immunities to their displaced northern bretheren Haka (the Northern Song), which in turn led to speculation bubbles and great religious revivals, millenarial cults, and much turmoil within and throughout. And the 'barbarians' were winning piece by piece all along the fringes. And all of this news was collated by a counter-reformationist Neo-Confucianism that sought to "clean up" the records to set a good future example to follow. Basically literati rewriting things to win the future of a decaying empire with the right-thinking narratives.  ;) The world may not repeat, but it rhymes -- thanks Matk Twain.

It was an interesting time no doubt, but read from the surrounding outsider lands and internally dispossessed the fissures were very real as the sanctioned choir sang louder. A great period full of contradictions and veneered decadence.

(edit: also little known was China was VERY LATE to the rice game. It was because of the Yangtze river colonization during the Southern Song (and loss of the Huang Ho Yellow river that was wheat growing in Norther Song) that China switched to rice around 1000 CE (AD). Before them Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Ryuukyuu Island (Pirate Isles), good part of SE and South Asia, as well as Persia and Caspian & Tigris Euphrates delta (Basra), was well acquainted with rice for at least a millennia, some even more than one. Rice domestication in Asia being sourced to the Red River by Hanoi and Caspian and Oxus and Mesopotamian Persian Gulf delta in Persia. Strange how technology spreads and can skip areas for long periods -- the Chinese elites favored their wheat until they had to flee their home river.)

Also good to see you back, SHARK!  :D


Not sure where you got the false info that they weren't growing rice in China prior to the Song.  What happened during the Song was that new strains were introduced from Champa.  This allowed for more intensive cropping, particularly in the south, where rice was (and is) more popular and widely grown.  So yeah, the north was more oriented towards other grains, but it wasn't like they had no knowledge of rice or that it wasn't eaten.  The Chinese pioneered rice cultivation and it spread from there to China's neighbors.  But even today, Chinese people will often ask, upon meeting someone, "Rice or noodles?"  This supposedly identifies you as a northerner or southerner.  My wife, who is from the north, is a noodle person.  But, of course she still eats lots of rice too.

As for Neo-Confucianism, that actually started in the late Tang (618-907), but picked up steam in the Southern Song (1127-1279), with the writings of Zhu Xi & the Cheng brothers.  It was initially more of a reaction against Buddhist influence, but once the Northern Song (960-1126) fell to the Jurchens, the anti-barbarian rhetoric in society as a whole increased.  Then it was under the Mongols, ironically enough, that the civil service exams gained their Neo-Confucian emphasis.  They had been much broader in scope before then.  That in itself probably isn't as interesting from a gaming perspective, but you can work the bureaucracy and exam system into plots & scenarios.

If you want a detailed picture of late Song society, read Jacques Gernet's Daily Life in China on the Eve of the Mongol Invasion.  Theoretically, you can also read Marco Polo, but that's not always the easiest read.  Incidentally, some scholars also think the whole thing was made up and Polo never went to China at all.  See: https://www.amazon.com/Did-Marco-Polo-Go-China/dp/0813389992/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1QXDUN8FYV1EO&keywords=frances+wood&qid=1642600213&s=books&sprefix=frances+wood%2Cstripbooks%2C107&sr=1-4

The Song is when China switched to a predominant rice growing culture. Rice was known, but like many discoveries during Nam Viet colonization it was considered 'too foreign' to be the mainstay and during the Tang there was a greater horse culture influence going on. And Neo-Confucianism really came into its own in the Song, much to I think Confucianism's regret. There was a touch of the Legalists 'apologia to abused power' legacy I think in the Neo-Confucian restructuring. But the times were emotionally hard as a period of lamented contraction, yet material indulgence. An interesting period to game in to be sure!
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Opaopajr

Quote from: Persimmon on January 20, 2022, 08:31:10 AM
Quote from: SHARK on January 20, 2022, 06:52:10 AM
Quote from: Persimmon on January 18, 2022, 09:40:07 PM
The old Kara Tur boxed set has plenty of inspirational material.  Not sure if it's even available nowadays due to issues of political correctness.  Several of the recent wuxia rpgs like "Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate" & "Righteous Blood, Ruthless Blades," offer good setting info.  I think the latter would be pretty easy for most players to gronk if they've seen a few martial arts films.  And it's got plenty of NPCs you could probably convert over to your preferred system if you don't use that one.

My own campaign setting features lands derived from China (more Tang era, though), Japan, and Korea, though these are not necessarily the main areas of action.  I've done one campaign mostly there. 

Personally, I favor the Ming-Qing eras as those are my areas of academic specialty.  But there's enough info out there in English to do pretty much any era of Chinese history.  And many of the major novels & short stories have been translated so you can easily find plots and setting details.  Monkey & Water Margin are probably the best for that, or one of the martial arts novels by Jin Yong.  If you want stuff specifically on the Song, let me know and I can make recommendations.  Water Margin is set in the Song, but was written in the Ming.

Greetings!

Good Morning, Persimmon! Excellent! Yes, I actually have an original Kara Tur Boxed Set in my collection. I'll have to dig it out!

You specialized in the Ming/Qing Dynasties? Damn, that's awesome, my friend! Where did you go to school for that? Did your school have a great Asian Studies Program? That's so cool. I love it!

Myself, my main focus was Ancient & Medieval Europe, specializing in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. My university required us to select two secondary specialties--I picked American History, and Asian History, specializing in Ancient China & Ancient India. My university even established its own special Yadunandan Center for India Studies. I was going to take courses in Sanskrit, ahh, but geesus. You know how crazy the course work can be like at upper levels. There's only so much you can do in a set time frame.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Hey Shark,

I got my B.A. at The College of Wooster (OH) and my M.A. & Ph.D. at the University of Michigan.  I did my archival research at the Academia Sinica in Taiwan.  Since graduating I've done research in Korea, Japan, and mainland China.  I specialize in Ming-Qing military history.  I currently teach at Southern Miss and serve as the Book Review Editor of The Journal of Chinese Military History. 

If you're super interested you can find my books on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Dragons-Head-Serpents-Tail-Commanders/dp/0806155817/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2XW49XIJBEQ6S&keywords=a+dragon%27s+head+and+a+serpent%27s+tail&qid=1642685120&sprefix=a+dragon%27s+%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-1
https://www.amazon.com/Military-Collapse-Dynasty-1618-44-Empires-ebook/dp/B00I06LPK0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1Y6YJ21YZIFL1&keywords=the+military+collapse+of+china%27s+ming+dynasty&qid=1642685167&sprefix=the+military+collapse+of+china%27s+ming+dynasty%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-1
https://www.amazon.com/Trail-Yellow-Tiger-Dislocation-Transition/dp/0803249950/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1DDY3VACU2COZ&
keywords=on+the+trail+of+the+yellow+tiger&qid=1642685225&sprefix=on+the+trail+of+the+yellow+tiger%2Caps%2C106&sr=8-1

My current book is a military biography of General Zuo Zongtang (1812-1885), known to Americans as the namesake of General Zuo's chicken, but known in China for helping suppress the Taiping Rebellion, which was the largest civil war in world history, then crushing a series of Muslim revolts in the northwest and Central Asia which resulted in the creation of Xinjiang province, currently a hotbed of Uighur unrest.

As I said, your proposed campaign sounds great & I look forward to hearing about it!

Interesting! My minor History focus was on East Asia as well. But as much as I did for China it was predominantly on the rest of East Asia, especially Humanities: culture, arts, cuisine, philosophy, religion, and exchange. The dialogue and archaeology from the neighbors around China has delightful... discrepancies to popular narratives. But I still love all of the friction, tracing ideas as they travel!

Due to your interest in war, if you ever get a chance I recommend the War Museum in Seoul, Korea. It is excellent. When talking to Museum Studies majors they would appreciate their application of modern practice. You might love it!
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman