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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Ocule on November 19, 2022, 01:45:23 PM

Title: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on November 19, 2022, 01:45:23 PM
Consumer's Guide to TTRPGs
     This is permanent link to the Consumer's Guide, you can find the discussion thread here (https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/list-ttrpg-guide-to-woke-companies/).

Foreward
     I have been playing tabletop games for about ten years now, mostly as a game master. I have played most of the games on my shelf and at least read through them all, and all of them are in this guide and some that I have only discovered through my research on making this. I was also thinking of all the games I feel like I have been deceived or companies I have purchased from who have made their opinions abundantly clear on how they feel about gamers. A common phrase i've seen is "if you don't like our politics don't buy our games" which is fair enough and has a simple solution. I've watched major companies, such as wizards of the coast employees engage in harassment and doxxing campaigns, and others interfering with the ability of other creators to get their games on shelves and finally had enough. I put together a list, asking for suggestions from other gamers on which companies they felt were ethical, and decidedly apolitical and why they felt that way. Then I compiled the information here in three categories, green, yellow and red. I tried to keep the criteria simple and a full A through F scale would involve a bunch more work and maybe in the future the guide can afford to be more granular but it is not a project I would wish to go at alone. The Green category was for game companies that maintained a stance of neutrality, were pro free speech and are generally friendly regardless of anyone's political persuasion. The yellow category was intended to be more questionable, where a publisher or creator may have engaged in questionable practices but doesn't appear to make a habit of it, whether unintentional or simply well intentioned but may have either sent the wrong message or was exercising restraint. The red list, which this document has become infamous for, is reserved for bad actors. Entities who have caused harm to people or businesses, have a hostile stance to those of differing ideological views or in general have engaged in anti-consumer practices. Whenever possible I will try to provide links to the sources of why a company was categorized the way it was.

      It is my hope that this guide serves as a sort of consumer guide, and not a blacklist. I really do want more entities to be categorized as green. This is for my own love of gaming and the hobby. I would ask anyone who reads this to not reach out to the creators you don't agree with. Let them do their thing, and if this list helps you make a decision or discover a new game you didn't know existed then it has done its job. I know on creating this list I have discovered several new games that were absolute gems and picked them up immediately. If anyone has any suggestions, comments or concerns please share them on the original thread Here (https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/list-ttrpg-guide-to-woke-companies/)

Thank you for all the support I've received for this effort, I hope you find it useful.

Now for the infamous "List"
Link to Guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RlX78Yw9lbUMk2QwAZdpwNRGAd4Xe69eFgnFymWz6M0/edit#heading=h.s9uvg7c5ig4j)
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Cathode Ray on November 19, 2022, 02:08:15 PM
I think this should be pinned. I also think a pdf edition should be available so it can circulate around the web.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Zelen on November 19, 2022, 03:07:18 PM
Non-Google hosting would be appreciated, since unfortunately Google belongs on the "red" category.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on November 19, 2022, 03:37:57 PM
I'll see if i can find another host, maybe a free cloud or something
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Cathode Ray on November 19, 2022, 11:05:26 PM
Quote from: Zelen on November 19, 2022, 03:07:18 PM
Non-Google hosting would be appreciated, since unfortunately Google belongs on the "red" category.
My sentiments exactly. I have Google blockedon my computer, and only have an older pdf of it.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Zelen on November 20, 2022, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: Ocule on November 19, 2022, 03:37:57 PM
I'll see if i can find another host, maybe a free cloud or something

It's been awhile since I used GoogleDocs, but I think there's an option to export to some other format e.g. Word/Excel/HTML/etc?
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on November 20, 2022, 10:10:36 PM
Yeah I can export to pdf that's not an issue just need to find a way to upload it that I can keep the updated guide without having to redo the original post
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: WillInNewHaven on November 20, 2022, 11:17:29 PM
Well, I'm not on any of your lists. Please leave it that way.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on November 21, 2022, 01:05:16 AM
Quote from: WillInNewHaven on November 20, 2022, 11:17:29 PM
Well, I'm not on any of your lists. Please leave it that way.

Please put any requests for the guide in the discussion thread mentioned in the original post.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: pawsplay on December 06, 2022, 07:00:28 PM
It's quite weird that this guide is purportedly about anti-consumer behavior, when you list anti-SJW under Green. Obviously a lot of RPG buyers are SJWs. It seems like you are taking a side there.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on December 07, 2022, 08:26:37 AM
Quote from: pawsplay on December 06, 2022, 07:00:28 PM
It's quite weird that this guide is purportedly about anti-consumer behavior, when you list anti-SJW under Green. Obviously a lot of RPG buyers are SJWs. It seems like you are taking a side there.

How is that weird? SJWs and wokescolds are a hate cult, the lowest form of life next to furries. Being anti woke is just good karma at this point
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: vargasmas on January 02, 2023, 08:24:56 PM
Well darn it. I should have checked this list before I decided which TTRPGs I wanted to leave on my shelf and which ones need to go into the wood chipper.
Looks like Paizo (red) and TinyDungeon (yellow) are going to be trash. At least I still got Old School Essentials and Basic Fantasy RPG!
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: migo on January 11, 2023, 06:16:37 PM
Since it has been brought up in the thread but not addressed in the document: It seems Robert Adducci has left Ulisses US as a community manager. Is there some other reason for them to be in the Yellow?
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on January 12, 2023, 06:53:13 PM
Working on updates, sorry been busy with life so haven't had as much time to update.


Quote from: migo on January 11, 2023, 06:16:37 PM
Since it has been brought up in the thread but not addressed in the document: It seems Robert Adducci has left Ulisses US as a community manager. Is there some other reason for them to be in the Yellow?

Going to probably move them to green, that guy was really just that cancerous. They don't have much of a social media footprint and I don't have any of their books so was going on what was reported or what I found in the thread
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on February 10, 2023, 09:36:27 PM
Update 2/10/2023
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on February 17, 2023, 05:45:56 PM
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Baron on February 20, 2023, 03:13:19 PM
Should Itch.io be on this list? I understand they host ttrpgs too. A look at their history of "charity bundles" indicates some politics.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: squirewaldo on February 20, 2023, 07:29:22 PM
Quote from: Baron on February 20, 2023, 03:13:19 PM
Should Itch.io be on this list? I understand they host ttrpgs too. A look at their history of "charity bundles" indicates some politics.

I have been posting on ITCHIO for a little over 3 months. I get the impression the management is very leftist, but I am not sure about how 'woke'. Woke is different than 'left' or 'liberal'. Woke is primarily authoritarian in nature. This is evidenced by how they tend to eat their own. Ideology and principles mean nothing to them. Its all about power and enforcing doctrine.

I have posted things that should get any woke-wanker foaming. No one has promoted my games; no slaps on the back. But I haven't been censored either. In fact the first item I posted was something I would never have posted on DTRPG because of the censorship (it was an allegorical tale about a world's population killed by an imaginary vaccine and some of the survivors trying to live and fight back).

So I like it. I don't have to agree with people if they agree to live-and-let-live.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on February 20, 2023, 07:56:10 PM
They seem pretty mild imo, I'll look into them since dtrpg seems to make it necessary to list them though i'm not sure theres a point. Even with BGE trying to become a competitor you just can't find half the stuff that you do on dtrpg anywhere else. Given the option i'll usually buy from a publishers storefront instead of dtrpg.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Rocky on February 28, 2023, 12:49:41 PM
I see Roll20 is red. I'm not that familiar with other VTTRPGs. Are there any that are in the green or yellow?
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Baron on March 04, 2023, 07:23:18 PM
With Drivethru in the Red zone, can we rate Lulu? It's an alternative.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on March 09, 2023, 10:53:32 PM
Added arcane library to green
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Dracopol on March 21, 2023, 07:50:22 PM
In the entry for Chaosium there is a typo:   "growing Sandy Petersen under the bus" should be THROWING Sandy Petersen under the bus.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Baron on March 21, 2023, 07:51:28 PM
Quote from: Dracopol on March 21, 2023, 07:50:22 PM
In the entry for Chaosium there is a typo:   "growing Sandy Petersen under the bus" should be THROWING Sandy Petersen under the bus.

Unless Sandy is a Fungi from Yoggoth...
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Dracopol on March 21, 2023, 08:01:06 PM
Sorry for nit-picking but in the Yellow column you have "Talsorian Games" but officially it is "R. Talsorian Games" (with a space after the R.), producers of Cyberpunk 2020, Cyberpunk Red, and other games.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Benzo on March 31, 2023, 03:18:05 AM
Found a copy of the list and some of the links to statements by the companies are no longer available. If possible could you clean those up and use links to archived copies of said statements so the company can't just take it down and pretend it didn't happen?

Cheers! Benzo!
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: KrisSnow on May 18, 2023, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: squirewaldo on February 20, 2023, 07:29:22 PM
Quote from: Baron on February 20, 2023, 03:13:19 PM
Should Itch.io be on this list? I understand they host ttrpgs too. A look at their history of "charity bundles" indicates some politics.

I have been posting on ITCHIO for a little over 3 months. I get the impression the management is very leftist, but I am not sure about how 'woke'. Woke is different than 'left' or 'liberal'. Woke is primarily authoritarian in nature. This is evidenced by how they tend to eat their own. Ideology and principles mean nothing to them. Its all about power and enforcing doctrine.

I have posted things that should get any woke-wanker foaming. No one has promoted my games; no slaps on the back. But I haven't been censored either. In fact the first item I posted was something I would never have posted on DTRPG because of the censorship (it was an allegorical tale about a world's population killed by an imaginary vaccine and some of the survivors trying to live and fight back).

So I like it. I don't have to agree with people if they agree to live-and-let-live.

I've given up on buying anything from Itch.io these days, after seeing again and again how they prominently (large front-page ad) promote one leftist bundle after another. When you're specifically trying to change the politics of my state with what's supposed to be a gaming site, I don't want to funnel any money to your site.

Disappointed to hear that Tiny Games and the Five Torches Deep people are on the naughty list. Pleased to see Sine Nomine isn't; I've been into Crawford's games lately and they haven't been political in any way. Not surprised that Onyx Path scores poorly since I've laughed at how "Exalted" changed from 2E to 3E. ("Barbarians" are out; sex-swapping magic went from something Lunars can do and it's not a big deal, to having a long discussion about "gender dysphoria" and how extremely supportive the shapeshifting beastmen are about it.)
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on May 20, 2023, 11:49:51 PM
Added Leyline Press to red for trying to get an author blacklisted for the crime of working on a lamentations product.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Multichoice Decision on May 23, 2023, 05:03:33 AM
Good thing the Redditors can tell us all who tolerate, being the experts in extremism that they are, otherwise I could never tell the difference on my own.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Ocule on June 18, 2023, 09:37:32 PM
Moved Chaosium to red mainly for their donations to Mermaid "charity" that focuses on getting kids to be trans, pushes chemical and surgical solutions to kids and gives tools to hide it from parents/care takers. This is a step too far.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Psyckosama on June 30, 2023, 11:02:33 PM
I think SJ Games should be move to yellow at worst.

According to your own standards red is reserved for bad actors.

I quote: "Entities who have caused harm to people or businesses, have a hostile stance to those of differing ideological views or in general have engaged in anti-consumer practices."

All they've done is supported causes to the left of your own. Abortion is a highly traditional liberal point of view that has next to nothing to do with woke culture, and the Ukraine issue is even more complicated in many ways.

As long as they don't crudely and blatantly shoehorn it into their products or use it as a club to batter others, it's their right to have an opinion as long as they don't force it down your throats and unlike most of the cocksuckers on the list, the legitimately don't seem to be punishing people for disagreeing with them or stifle free speech.

Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: squirewaldo on June 30, 2023, 11:57:29 PM
Quote from: Psyckosama on June 30, 2023, 11:02:33 PM
I think SJ Games should be move to yellow at worst.

According to your own standards red is reserved for bad actors.

I quote: "Entities who have caused harm to people or businesses, have a hostile stance to those of differing ideological views or in general have engaged in anti-consumer practices."

All they've done is supported causes to the left of your own. Abortion is a highly traditional liberal point of view that has next to nothing to do with woke culture, and the Ukraine issue is even more complicated in many ways.

As long as they don't crudely and blatantly shoehorn it into their products or use it as a club to batter others, it's their right to have an opinion as long as they don't force it down your throats and unlike most of the cocksuckers on the list, the legitimately don't seem to be punishing people for disagreeing with them or stifle free speech.

Why is a gaming company talking about abortion and Ukraine????? They have already shoehorned it into their products. No thank you.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Psyckosama on July 01, 2023, 12:27:44 AM
Quote from: squirewaldo on June 30, 2023, 11:57:29 PM
Why is a gaming coming talking about abortion and Ukraine????? They have already shoehorned it into their products. No thank you.

See, that's the thing... Steve Jackson Games doesn't force that crap into their products.

They gave an opinion outside their gaming content. People are permitted to have their political stances, even if you disagree with them, as long as they do not try and muzzle others.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Cathode Ray on July 05, 2023, 07:12:27 PM
Quote from: Psyckosama on July 01, 2023, 12:27:44 AM
Quote from: squirewaldo on June 30, 2023, 11:57:29 PM
Why is a gaming coming talking about abortion and Ukraine????? They have already shoehorned it into their products. No thank you.

See, that's the thing... Steve Jackson Games doesn't force that crap into their products.

1) Take a look at COVIDIOTS and other political attack cards in ILLUMINATI 2020.
2) In the past year, SJWG have supported 2 extremist causes, and made products to raise money for the causes.
3) They donated revenue to an extremist group.


Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Thor's Nads on July 06, 2023, 09:28:50 PM
Quote from: Cathode Ray on July 05, 2023, 07:12:27 PM
Quote from: Psyckosama on July 01, 2023, 12:27:44 AM
Quote from: squirewaldo on June 30, 2023, 11:57:29 PM
Why is a gaming coming talking about abortion and Ukraine????? They have already shoehorned it into their products. No thank you.

See, that's the thing... Steve Jackson Games doesn't force that crap into their products.

1) Take a look at COVIDIOTS and other political attack cards in ILLUMINATI 2020.
2) In the past year, SJWG have supported 2 extremist causes, and made products to raise money for the causes.
3) They donated revenue to an extremist group.

I tend to agree with Psyckosama. SJG is yellow. Red should be reserved for genuinely bad actors who are actively hostile to customers of a different political persuasion. They can make political jokes, Illuminati is a pretty jokey product that pokes fun at everything.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Psyckosama on July 06, 2023, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: Thor's Nads on July 06, 2023, 09:28:50 PM
I tend to agree with Psyckosama. SJG is yellow. Red should be reserved for genuinely bad actors who are actively hostile to customers of a different political persuasion. They can make political jokes, Illuminati is a pretty jokey product that pokes fun at everything.

Yeah, they might take occasional pot shots but they're not hostile. If you're left wing and you buy their products? Great! if you're right wing and buy their products? Great! Buy their products, play them how you want. If you disagree with their take on things, you do you. They're not the types to put fucking instructions on how to right-think in their games.

Red should be reserved for people who are legitimate cunts, both sides. Not people who are using their right to free speech in a manner you don't personally approve of.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: chacha95 on July 07, 2023, 05:31:35 AM
So the google doc says that there are better games for samurai than l5r and better swashbuckling than 7th sea, anyone care to point me toward those? Those are two or my favorite genres and I've been looking.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Psyckosama on July 07, 2023, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: chacha95 on July 07, 2023, 05:31:35 AM
So the google doc says that there are better games for samurai than l5r and better swashbuckling than 7th sea, anyone care to point me toward those? Those are two or my favorite genres and I've been looking.

Just get older editions. The old L5R stuff is better anyways.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Dracopol on July 20, 2023, 05:56:43 PM
There is a new phone app called Veebs (iPhone or Android) which scans the bar-codes of products and warns of products with Woke leanings.  I wonder if there's a way to give them Consumer's Guide information on the RPGs from Woke companies so they can implement it as a public warning?
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Redshirt451 on July 31, 2023, 11:04:29 AM
What's the consensus on Osprey Games? They seem pretty professional and I haven't seen anything woke from them, but I've only been able to give them a skin deep look.

Also, I think Pelgrane Press should be moved to Yellow. The "SWGs make great punching bags" line and #Feminism rpg are unfortunate, but these seem to be one offs. They seem to otherwise be pretty good about keeping overtly political statements out of their games. They also have some really nuanced and well-fleshed out sections on incorporating race and totalitarianism into a game in Trail of Cthulhu, although that may be because Ken Hite wrote it. I also haven't heard of them being antagonistic towards fans in any way.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: mikelaff on August 01, 2023, 08:52:29 AM
so - TSR has been removed?
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Aglondir on August 03, 2023, 09:48:12 PM
Quote from: Psyckosama on July 01, 2023, 12:27:44 AM
Quote from: squirewaldo on June 30, 2023, 11:57:29 PM
Why is a gaming coming talking about abortion and Ukraine????? They have already shoehorned it into their products. No thank you.

See, that's the thing... Steve Jackson Games doesn't force that crap into their products.

They gave an opinion outside their gaming content. People are permitted to have their political stances, even if you disagree with them, as long as they do not try and muzzle others.

Pscykosama,

I used to think that as well, until Illuminati 2020. Quoting my earlier post:

Quote from: AglondirWow. It gets worse. I just saw "Illuminati Second Edition 2020" on Ebay. Not sure how I missed this, but I haven't seen anyone mention it here before. Mods: Although technically it relates to a card game (and not an RPG) it is published by Steve Jackson Games, and seems related to this thread. If not, feel free to move it to a more suitable location.

First, some background. Many of you grew up playing the original Illuminati card game in the 80's; or the collectible version, Illuminati: new World Order in the 90's. Both of those games were fun card games about conspiracies vying for world domination. They took an even-handed stance when it came to politics, mildly poking fun at both sides of the aisle. There were cards for both Bill Clinton and Al Gore, as well as Ronald Reagan and George Bush.

The new game looks like an expansion that mostly focuses on Covid. While I haven't seen the entirety of the new game—and if you have, please chime in—the cards I see on Ebay are woke and one-sided. Examples:

Black Lives Matter: No artwork. Text reads: "A turning point for society... this card counts as Special. When it is played, keep it on the table like an NWO, but nothing can remove it."

The Wise Doctor: Obviously Dr. Fauci.

USA #1 (in deaths): Probably meant to be Covid deaths (but according to Wikipedia, we're #21.)

Autonomous Zones: Artwork shows happy, diverse, peaceful people behind a barricade with a tent in the background. Alignment is fanatic and liberal, so this probably is meant to represent CHAZ/CHOP.

Mass Demonstrations: Artwork shows happy, diverse, peaceful people wearing masks. (Probably meant to be BLM/Antifa, but it is hard to tell since nothing is on fire.)

Covidiots: Artwork shows angry virus hoaxers. Three are wearing red caps, one is holding a sign about the Bill of Rights. Everyone in the artwork is white.

Pro-virus Rallies: Artwork shows angry people spreading the virus. Five people wearing red caps, everyone in the artwork is white.

That Guy: Although you can't see the figure's face, the orange skin, red tie, and small hands are obviously a thinly-veiled reference to Trump. The card's alignment is: conservative, criminal, and violent.

Statue Smashers: The only card I see ridiculing the Left, making fun of people who indiscriminately topple statues.

I've previously defended SJG in this forum. I don't care if they want to defend abortion rights or gun rights outside the product. But this? This is Woke garbage.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Effete on August 31, 2023, 01:57:49 AM
Just wanted to chime in and add more context to R.Talsorian Games, specifically Cyberpunk Red. While I think they still belong pretty squarely in the Yellow, their products lately have been skewing more and more toward Woke narratives.

- The book Tales From the Red lists pronouns for every NPC, including several "they/thems" and promotes exotics (i.e. furries) as an unjustly lambasted group
- Black Chrome cover art features a badass looking punker chick with "problem glasses" (it really just ruins what is an otherwise cool image)
- Black Chrome also has a section highlighting six of the largest black markets in the game. In the order they appear in the book, one is owned by a gay guy who runs the market with his husband and (adopted?) daughter. The next is run by a butch woman. The third is run by teenager with they/them pronouns (that section is also a fukken nightmare to read). The next is run a rich, white guy who has a contraceptive implant (at least implying he bangs woman). Then there's the market run by a Desi bird-kin lady, with a beak and feathers for hair. And finally, one run by a frumpy white dude with a bad comb-over.

Curiously, though, the section of Black Chrome that delves into the economics of the game is somewhat refreshing. While it makes mention of the PCs "seizing the means of production," it explains that this means the players should be movitated to create new markets to rival the corporations. So, although the phrase "seizing the means of production" is straight out of Marxism, the game actually encourages enterpreneurship and the creation of free markets to compete against Crony Corporatism (i.e. fascism).

So while all the stupid pronoun shit and weird virtue signaling can be easily ignored, or even excused as part of the dystopian hellscape the world has become, it still feels like there's some modern messaging being pushed in the game itself unrelated to the conceits of the setting.

Again, probably not enough for the Red list, but definitely something to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Eldrad on September 16, 2023, 02:52:27 PM
Add Bastionland Press, makers of Into the Odd and Electric Bastionland to the Red List as their Discord is a bunch of lefties that kick people off not leftist enough. I know I will never buy anything from them again. Also the same Sword Ream crowd as the Rainbow OSR, NSR and the FKR Collective.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Effete on September 18, 2023, 09:08:31 PM
Quote from: Eldrad on September 16, 2023, 02:52:27 PM
Add Bastionland Press, makers of Into the Odd and Electric Bastionland to the Red List as their Discord is a bunch of lefties that kick people off not leftist enough. I know I will never buy anything from them again. Also the same Sword Ream crowd as the Rainbow OSR, NSR and the FKR Collective.

Is it an official Discord, or a fan one? The distinction matters.

Also, how are their products? If the games themselves are free of wokeness, the above is probably only sufficient enough for a Yellow listing. You don't NEED to use the Discord to enjoy the game, so it's an ancilliary factor at best.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Eldrad on September 22, 2023, 01:43:48 AM
The writer of the game is the main moderator. PLUS they (same ppl as the NSR, FKR Collective and Rainbow OSR) kept kicking me off and I know they're not just liberal but many were actual antifa leftist commie types as I lurked on their Discords just for the game content and caused not trouble with them. I simply stated during a political debate about abortion that using birth control would prevent a pregnancy so there would not be an abortion debate. I was accused of taking away the reproductive rights of women? I then realized their view was to abort every thing that can maybe? Then someone on their Discord(s) decided that all my modules were suddenly racist, mysogonist and icky so I should be PERMABNANNED! A few of them follow me around getting me banned and putting me on their list and such...
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Cathode Ray on September 22, 2023, 10:26:36 PM
i think that the above example, of fascistic harassing its own potential customers to this extent for mainstream views, is criteria for the red list.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Eldrad on September 24, 2023, 11:53:52 PM
What's sad is the NSR had some really innovative ideas but as a wise man once said "Don't buy from people who hate you!" and that's wise advice.   
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Effete on September 25, 2023, 04:31:22 PM
Quote from: Cathode Ray on September 22, 2023, 10:26:36 PM
i think that the above example, of fascistic harassing its own potential customers to this extent for mainstream views, is criteria for the red list.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Hopladamus on October 15, 2023, 02:54:51 PM
Hey, since you probably didn't see my comment, I had several suggestions for the green list:

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/list-ttrpg-guide-to-woke-companies/msg1249861/#msg1249861

Also, I have mentioned Gabor Lux (First Hungarian d20 Society) as another potential green list addition.

Another thing is that maybe we should move Noble Knight Games to the yellow or red list based on what Venger said about them. Or at least we should mention Venger's accusations as an addendum on their green list entry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pmUmAnRVJM
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Eldrad on November 07, 2023, 01:14:15 PM
Anything by Paige Lietman should be on the Red. When I was still somewhat interested by 5E, she was a moderator on one of the FB D&D Pages, I dared to say my race was gamer. I discovered  that, as a white guy, I needed to make sure and admit I only deserve to lick the floors of overflowing toilets and must bow and admit my whiteness was lowness or something. I was like really attacked by the entire page. Let's just say her followers are so far up her huge budungas, their legs are hanging out.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: RulesLiteOSRpls on November 22, 2023, 06:54:15 AM
How about Grey Ghost Press and Big Dice Games? I can't even seem to find the latter's website. But GGP seems like pretty normal people.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Cathode Ray on November 23, 2023, 07:36:24 AM
Quote from: Hopladamus on October 15, 2023, 02:54:51 PM
Hey, since you probably didn't see my comment, I had several suggestions for the green list:

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/list-ttrpg-guide-to-woke-companies/msg1249861/#msg1249861

Another thing is that maybe we should move Noble Knight Games to the yellow or red list based on what Venger said about them. Or at least we should mention Venger's accusations as an addendum on their green list entry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pmUmAnRVJM

I don't think Venger's story qualifies Noble Knight games for red or yellow list. Miserable business practices, yes, greedy, yes, but that's not "wokeness".
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: pawsplay on November 25, 2023, 11:54:52 PM
Quote from: KrisSnow on May 18, 2023, 07:45:55 PM
I've given up on buying anything from Itch.io these days, after seeing again and again how they prominently (large front-page ad) promote one leftist bundle after another. When you're specifically trying to change the politics of my state with what's supposed to be a gaming site, I don't want to funnel any money to your site.

It seems like you are against them selling things that their customers want to buy. No one is silencing you. It seems like you just want to cancel them because of their politics.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: squirewaldo on November 26, 2023, 09:09:30 AM
Quote from: pawsplay on November 25, 2023, 11:54:52 PM
Quote from: KrisSnow on May 18, 2023, 07:45:55 PM
I've given up on buying anything from Itch.io these days, after seeing again and again how they prominently (large front-page ad) promote one leftist bundle after another. When you're specifically trying to change the politics of my state with what's supposed to be a gaming site, I don't want to funnel any money to your site.

It seems like you are against them selling things that their customers want to buy. No one is silencing you. It seems like you just want to cancel them because of their politics.

Yeah, I agree. I am not sure what the politics are of the people who run things at Itch.io. They do not censor like DriveThruRPG -- they pretty much allow anything. You can post what you like. I have a few games posted that I am pretty sure would be banned on DriveThruRPG for violation of thoughtcrimes, but are fine on Itch.io.

So if you are going boycott Itch.io for allowing stuff you don't like, are you going to boycott DriveThruRPG which openly bans people who post things they don't agree with?
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Captain_Pazuzu on December 22, 2023, 02:06:39 PM
Quote from: Eldrad on November 07, 2023, 01:14:15 PM
Anything by Paige Lietman should be on the Red. When I was still somewhat interested by 5E, she was a moderator on one of the FB D&D Pages, I dared to say my race was gamer. I discovered  that, as a white guy, I needed to make sure and admit I only deserve to lick the floors of overflowing toilets and must bow and admit my whiteness was lowness or something. I was like really attacked by the entire page. Let's just say her followers are so far up her huge budungas, their legs are hanging out.

I just googled images of her.

All the evidence I needed.

I also think the Red list should be changed to Purple.
Title: Re: Consumers Guide to TTRPGs
Post by: Gagarth on February 27, 2024, 05:25:18 AM
So the new Arkham 7th edition has been released.  As expected we have race and gender swapped characters the best of which is a white male blonde German psychic being replaced with a black female psychic. Isn't there a term for that and also the theme of a recent movie? There are multiple sections ranting about diversity yet  supposedly MU still has  90% white male students while the image of the school band show majority poc.   There is a great section where they decry that in the 1920s Harvard, Cornell, Columbia, and Yale, among others, operated a discriminatory and racist "Jewish quota" designed to limit or deny access for Jewish students.  Of course not a mention of the admission policies and rampant antisemitism that those very same schools have now. I wonder why that is.