Quote from: Pat on October 18, 2021, 10:54:00 PM

Quote from: ChrisFox on October 18, 2021, 10:17:52 PM
I can control myself just fine, and I didn't suggest any sort of escalation to violence. I just implied that if you started anything I would break you and leave you in a pile of your own blood. I don't like to fight. But I have been in many fights.

The level of irony is off the charts.

Is it? Because this is an important distinction, whether you like me or not, Pat. Being willing to defend yourself is not the same thing as going around attacking people.

My original point to Happy is this...I don't think he'd behave in person the way he's behaving on these forums. And the pattern is always the same. Snide remarks, leading to insults.

I'm not claiming I'm any better. We've established I'm a patronizing asshole. I got that way after dealing with a million HappyDaze's, on every forum I used to run on. They're all gone now.

Quote from: ChrisFox on October 18, 2021, 11:02:35 PM

Quote from: Pat on October 18, 2021, 10:54:00 PM

Quote from: ChrisFox on October 18, 2021, 10:17:52 PM
I can control myself just fine, and I didn't suggest any sort of escalation to violence. I just implied that if you started anything I would break you and leave you in a pile of your own blood. I don't like to fight. But I have been in many fights.

The level of irony is off the charts.

Is it? Because this is an important distinction, whether you like me or not, Pat. Being willing to defend yourself is not the same thing as going around attacking people.

My original point to Happy is this...I don't think he'd behave in person the way he's behaving on these forums. And the pattern is always the same. Snide remarks, leading to insults.

I'm not claiming I'm any better. We've established I'm a patronizing asshole. I got that way after dealing with a million HappyDaze's, on every forum I used to run on. They're all gone now.

Alluding to physical violence is a type of escalation, and so is chest puffing. And I think you're jumping to conclusions a bit too quickly. HappyDaze is an admitted sometimes-troll, but also makes some real contributions and has some good perspectives on some issues. And I say that as someone who has been as odds with HD on most issues, for a while. It's a response to being attacked a lot for having slightly different opinions than many on this board, and people immediately assuming the worst and jumping to crazy conclusions. Something I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to, myself. This board seems to be developing a stronger form of clannish groupthink.

I said I bet he wouldn't be brave enough to talk like that in person, which is a form of escalation. He responded by saying come at my bro, which is also escalation. Every post from him has been aggressive, dismissive, and patronizing. He pities us. We have our heads up our asses.

You can't speak to people like that. Too many of us have had too much of it, and we aren't going to sit down and take it any more. That's not a threat of violence. That's a bear who has been poked too many times. We're not backing away. We're not turning the other cheek. We're answering tone with tone.

If Happy wants to be a patronizing prick, then I will be a bigger patronizing prick. If Happy is actually capable of communicating like an adult, I could go that route too. Their post history suggest they are not.

Quote from: ChrisFox on October 18, 2021, 11:45:25 PM
I said I bet he wouldn't be brave enough to talk like that in person, which is a form of escalation. He responded by saying come at my bro, which is also escalation. Every post from him has been aggressive, dismissive, and patronizing. He pities us. We have our heads up our asses.

You can't speak to people like that. Too many of us have had too much of it, and we aren't going to sit down and take it any more. That's not a threat of violence. That's a bear who has been poked too many times. We're not backing away. We're not turning the other cheek. We're answering tone with tone.

If Happy wants to be a patronizing prick, then I will be a bigger patronizing prick. If Happy is actually capable of communicating like an adult, I could go that route too. Their post history suggest they are not.

Greetings!

Stay strong, Chris! Light up a cigar, and have a drink. "Half the board has HappyDaze on ignore, and the other half thinks he's a prick." *Laughing* Ahh, so funny. I believe it. So many members just in recent weeks have put HappyDaze on their ignore list, too. Sad. Not that long ago, HappyDaze seemed like a reasonable, intelligent, good-humoured member. Then one day he just went nuts after getting into a fight with another member, and he hasn't been the same since.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Pat on October 18, 2021, 11:34:42 PM
Alluding to physical violence is a type of escalation, and so is chest puffing. And I think you're jumping to conclusions a bit too quickly. HappyDaze is an admitted sometimes-troll, but also makes some real contributions and has some good perspectives on some issues. And I say that as someone who has been as odds with HD on most issues, for a while. It's a response to being attacked a lot for having slightly different opinions than many on this board, and people immediately assuming the worst and jumping to crazy conclusions. Something I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to, myself. This board seems to be developing a stronger form of clannish groupthink.

I always thought that you were in so many arguments because you liked to fight.

Quote from: Shasarak on October 19, 2021, 12:13:41 AM

Quote from: Pat on October 18, 2021, 11:34:42 PM
Alluding to physical violence is a type of escalation, and so is chest puffing. And I think you're jumping to conclusions a bit too quickly. HappyDaze is an admitted sometimes-troll, but also makes some real contributions and has some good perspectives on some issues. And I say that as someone who has been as odds with HD on most issues, for a while. It's a response to being attacked a lot for having slightly different opinions than many on this board, and people immediately assuming the worst and jumping to crazy conclusions. Something I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to, myself. This board seems to be developing a stronger form of clannish groupthink.

I always thought that you were in so many arguments because you liked to fight.

I like discussing things. That doesn't seem to happen much, anymore.

Quote from: SHARK on October 18, 2021, 11:57:57 PM

Quote from: ChrisFox on October 18, 2021, 11:45:25 PM
I said I bet he wouldn't be brave enough to talk like that in person, which is a form of escalation. He responded by saying come at my bro, which is also escalation. Every post from him has been aggressive, dismissive, and patronizing. He pities us. We have our heads up our asses.

You can't speak to people like that. Too many of us have had too much of it, and we aren't going to sit down and take it any more. That's not a threat of violence. That's a bear who has been poked too many times. We're not backing away. We're not turning the other cheek. We're answering tone with tone.

If Happy wants to be a patronizing prick, then I will be a bigger patronizing prick. If Happy is actually capable of communicating like an adult, I could go that route too. Their post history suggest they are not.

Greetings!

Stay strong, Chris! Light up a cigar, and have a drink. "Half the board has HappyDaze on ignore, and the other half thinks he's a prick." *Laughing* Ahh, so funny. I believe it. So many members just in recent weeks have put HappyDaze on their ignore list, too. Sad. Not that long ago, HappyDaze seemed like a reasonable, intelligent, good-humoured member. Then one day he just went nuts after getting into a fight with another member, and he hasn't been the same since.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You used to post a lot of good content, with the jovial camaraderie you're exhibiting in this post. But somewhere in there, you started posting a lot of bombast about exterminating people who think differently. (Though you're back to posting some good content, in the last couple days.)

The board's changed, in a fairly short time. People with slightly divergent opinions get dogpiled, and posters immediately assign every trait they oppose to anyone who disagrees with anything they say. That's not new in itself, but it's gotten a lot more intense, frequent, and binary. Is it any wonder those who don't conform with the zeitgeist get a little sensitive? They're under constant barrage.

I've done it myself, because many of the opinions here are anti-establishment, and when everyone in the media is parroting the same lie about smiling kids being a threat because they wear the wrong hat, or human medicine prescribed by an M.D. being animal paste, it's easy to feel under barrage, and become hypersensitive, even in an eddy where the flow of opinions have reversed. And global prickly combined with local prickly result in a herd of porcupines hissing at each other.

That's why I argue we need to stop this. It's not a war that will be won on this board, so why fight using any means necessary? Why not talk, extend good faith, tolerate divergent opinions, make things more pleasant, and maybe have discussions where we learn more about different points of view.

Quote from: Pat on October 19, 2021, 12:36:43 AM

Quote from: SHARK on October 18, 2021, 11:57:57 PM

Quote from: ChrisFox on October 18, 2021, 11:45:25 PM
I said I bet he wouldn't be brave enough to talk like that in person, which is a form of escalation. He responded by saying come at my bro, which is also escalation. Every post from him has been aggressive, dismissive, and patronizing. He pities us. We have our heads up our asses.

You can't speak to people like that. Too many of us have had too much of it, and we aren't going to sit down and take it any more. That's not a threat of violence. That's a bear who has been poked too many times. We're not backing away. We're not turning the other cheek. We're answering tone with tone.

If Happy wants to be a patronizing prick, then I will be a bigger patronizing prick. If Happy is actually capable of communicating like an adult, I could go that route too. Their post history suggest they are not.

Greetings!

Stay strong, Chris! Light up a cigar, and have a drink. "Half the board has HappyDaze on ignore, and the other half thinks he's a prick." *Laughing* Ahh, so funny. I believe it. So many members just in recent weeks have put HappyDaze on their ignore list, too. Sad. Not that long ago, HappyDaze seemed like a reasonable, intelligent, good-humoured member. Then one day he just went nuts after getting into a fight with another member, and he hasn't been the same since.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You used to post a lot of good content, with the jovial camaraderie you're exhibiting in this post. But somewhere in there, you started posting a lot of bombast about exterminating people who think differently. (Though you're back to posting some good content, in the last couple days.)

The board's changed, in a fairly short time. People with slightly divergent opinions get dogpiled, and posters immediately assign every trait they oppose to anyone who disagrees with anything they say. That's not new in itself, but it's gotten a lot more intense, frequent, and binary. Is it any wonder those who don't conform with the zeitgeist get a little sensitive? They're under constant barrage.

I've done it myself, because many of the opinions here are anti-establishment, and when everyone in the media is parroting the same lie about smiling kids being a threat because they wear the wrong hat, or human medicine prescribed by an M.D. being animal paste, it's easy to feel under barrage, and become hypersensitive, even in an eddy where the flow of opinions have reversed. And global prickly combined with local prickly result in a herd of porcupines hissing at each other.

That's why I argue we need to stop this. It's not a war that will be won on this board, so why fight using any means necessary? Why not talk, extend good faith, tolerate divergent opinions, make things more pleasant, and maybe have discussions where we learn more about different points of view.

Greetings!

Well, thank you, Pat. I like posting stuff about gaming the most. As for politics--I reserve my disdain for Communists.

In considering the board, and any kind of changing dynamic, well, I think there's a difference between expressing a disagreement on some issue, holding a different view about *whatever*--and making personal attacks, ad hominems, and direct insults towards other members. I don't believe that many here get overly hostile when someone expresses disagreement--it is when someone starts insulting individuals and making personal attacks that derail so many discussions--or at least, simply generate entirely hostile relationships between various individuals.

Then again, perhaps many of the conservative members have become more hostile and belligerent in response to the smarmy condescension and hostility of SJW's. There's defintely a short tolerance for SJW's and their typical attitudes here. Throughout society, the Marxist SJW's are shrieking at anyone and everyone that disagrees with them, and I imagine some folks here must bite their tongue at work, at school, or even with some of their own family members, so here--I suppose it feels like one of the few places available that more conservative, or traditional-minded people don't have to bite their tongue towards SJW's--so, when the SJW's and various kinds of trolls and idiots run their mouth here, they tend to get shredded very quickly.

Heh. Perhaps you are right though, and more and more people are just more belligerent, and enjoy confrontation. Our society is, as you mentioned, both globally and locally, undergoing a lot of BS and stress, and all of that bottled up frustration comes out on display here.

I think a decent example of a nice Liberal SJW is Jhkim. He manages to maintain a civil tone, and is generally pleasant and respectful. Personally, he and I disagree on oh, I suppose almost everything, though I don't attack him personally. Most SJW's are typically hostile, swarmy, and condescending, as well as arrogant and insulting, so I can understand the flame-throwing responses they recieve here from most members. As for other members, and other topics, yeah, I can see a increase in the whole insult frame. Some of the arguments that you have gotten into with other members here over various, sometimes obscure topics, the hostile responses seem to come pretty fast, with numerous accusations of lying, misquoting, misattributing what you or someone else said, ARRGGHHHH. I think that such absolute hostility and belligerence on many of these kinds of topics is unfortunate and unneccessary. I sometimes wonder, if member A, B, C, and D, and a half dozen others, met up at a Texas Roadhouse for some food and beer, would people actually have conversations where they speak like they do here to people? I don't think so, but then again, I could be wrong on that. Lately, lots of people do a lot of things that people didn't used to do, whether it's some young girl throwing a cup of ht coffee at a man or not wearing a mask outside a Starbucks, or women pulling guns on McDonald's drive-thru workers because the French Fries were lukewarm, or some guy shooting and killing some other guy over disputing a fucking parking space at a Walmart parking lot. Society is dfintely stretching at the seams and unravelling.

I'm glad that you like the content that I post up here too, Pat. I try to post interesting content, cool ideas and topics for members and friends to enjoy.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Pat on October 19, 2021, 12:19:14 AM
I like discussing things. That doesn't seem to happen much, anymore.

It's difficult to have a discussion when an argument will probably break out instead.  Narrow difference sometimes, I know.  Plus, a discussion is unlikely to go on for very many posts, by its very nature, whereas an argument can last much longer, even before it heats up into a fight instead.

Quote from: Pat on October 19, 2021, 12:36:43 AM
The board's changed, in a fairly short time. People with slightly divergent opinions get dogpiled, and posters immediately assign every trait they oppose to anyone who disagrees with anything they say. That's not new in itself, but it's gotten a lot more intense, frequent, and binary. Is it any wonder those who don't conform with the zeitgeist get a little sensitive? They're under constant barrage.

Two reasons, I think. One is Ocule's List of Woke Companies. I can't recall the last time we saw a new member surge like this. There are new posters joining who are fed up with Woke. And SJWs post as well, trying to sabotage or ridicule the list. I only hope they both stick around and discuss games.

The other reason might be the departure of a bunch of moderate-left posters a while back to form the Pub, which seems to be the place to discuss Mythras.

Quote from: Aglondir on October 19, 2021, 08:28:10 PM

Quote from: Pat on October 19, 2021, 12:36:43 AM
The board's changed, in a fairly short time. People with slightly divergent opinions get dogpiled, and posters immediately assign every trait they oppose to anyone who disagrees with anything they say. That's not new in itself, but it's gotten a lot more intense, frequent, and binary. Is it any wonder those who don't conform with the zeitgeist get a little sensitive? They're under constant barrage.

Two reasons, I think. One is Ocule's List of Woke Companies. I can't recall the last time we saw a new member surge like this. There are new posters joining who are fed up with Woke. And SJWs post as well, trying to sabotage or ridicule the list. I only hope they both stick around and discuss games.

The other reason might be the departure of a bunch of moderate-left posters a while back to form the Pub, which seems to be the place to discuss Mythras.

Nah, it wasn't Ocule's list. The change goes back further, at least to the election.

Quote from: SHARK on October 19, 2021, 02:08:58 AM
In considering the board, and any kind of changing dynamic, well, I think there's a difference between expressing a disagreement on some issue, holding a different view about *whatever*--and making personal attacks, ad hominems, and direct insults towards other members. I don't believe that many here get overly hostile when someone expresses disagreement--it is when someone starts insulting individuals and making personal attacks that derail so many discussions--or at least, simply generate entirely hostile relationships between various individuals.

I completely disagree with this. I never insult someone unless they insult me first, and I typically don't even do that until someone has insulted me over many posts, and I always try to deescalate things at some point. But look at how many times that's blown up lately, usually over very trivial disagreements. The one way I contribute to the conflagrations is I don't tend to back down when challenged, but I'm never the instigator or the one who flips out.

This board is beginning to feel more like an echo chamber, where people can't tolerate any dissent. It's the same disease that killed any rational discussion in many leftist circles.

Quote from: SHARK on October 19, 2021, 02:08:58 AM
Then again, perhaps many of the conservative members have become more hostile and belligerent in response to the smarmy condescension and hostility of SJW's. There's defintely a short tolerance for SJW's and their typical attitudes here. Throughout society, the Marxist SJW's are shrieking at anyone and everyone that disagrees with them, and I imagine some folks here must bite their tongue at work, at school, or even with some of their own family members, so here--I suppose it feels like one of the few places available that more conservative, or traditional-minded people don't have to bite their tongue towards SJW's--so, when the SJW's and various kinds of trolls and idiots run their mouth here, they tend to get shredded very quickly.

Heh. Perhaps you are right though, and more and more people are just more belligerent, and enjoy confrontation. Our society is, as you mentioned, both globally and locally, undergoing a lot of BS and stress, and all of that bottled up frustration comes out on display here.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. When people feel like they're constantly under attack, it's hard to be civil. But this board isn't a place where leftist thinking is dominant, and they can gang up to shut down all discussion. It's the opposite, and the people who are being dogpiled and shutdown here are the leftists -- and anyone else who happens to disagree in some way. Because a lot of the people who are called SJWs on this board are old school 90s liberals, moderates, right wingers who disagree on a few points, or people who don't fit on the very limited left-right political spectrum. That's not attacking SJWs. It's forming a gang and attacking anyone who doesn't show the right colors at all times.

This behavior is often justified by some variation of "they're taking advantage of our tolerance/civility/not salting the earth, so we must use their tactics against them and fight a total war or we'll lose!". But if you become like them in all the ways you hate, you've lost anyway.

Glad you're back to posting more gaming stuff, BTW.

The best way is to give a detailed description of the game and how it is played, along with what is and is not allowed. If anyone joins and then complains- unless it involves something that came up that is questionable but was not mentioned- you have a troublemaker. Ayundell is a mostly patriarchal world, so if someone starts whining about it- don't let the door hit you on the way out. Just be honest and upfront, and later do not compromise except in certain specific cases.

Quote from: Pat on October 19, 2021, 09:41:45 PM
Because a lot of the people who are called SJWs on this board are old school 90s liberals, moderates, right wingers who disagree on a few points, or people who don't fit on the very limited left-right political spectrum. That's not attacking SJWs. It's forming a gang and attacking anyone who doesn't show the right colors at all times.

I think there's a fair bit of truth in this, though it is hardly ubiquitous behaviour. It doesn't really bother me when I get targeted for being too Liberal, though - just like it was funny when my sis called me a Fascist when I scolded her for not vaxxing and then getting Covid right before my mum's memorial service. It's not scary - I'm not in any danger. Whereas being called right-wing can ruin your life - my ex tried this to stop me getting equal child custody, it failed miserably but it was still scary.

I expect some abuse here for liking 4e D&D, likewise I expect some abuse for being a nice reasonable moderate chap - it's all good.

That's right! S'mon likes 4e...

FUCK THAT DUDE!!