This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.

Author Topic: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian  (Read 3439 times)

Melan

  • Creeped out by the \'Net
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3664
    • View Profile
Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« on: November 09, 2020, 02:06:11 pm »
Yeah, that's right! In the never-ending march of Progress, Conan is next: the Conan RPG has been brought in line with "a cultural consultant’s recommendations that created a more rounded and well-developed representation".

Quote
UPDATE #145
Conan the Wanderer Edits
Samuel Webb
November 9, 2020

We want to address comments online about the edits to Conan the Wanderer.

We made changes to Conan the Wanderer on a cultural consultant’s recommendations that created a more rounded and well-developed representation of the fictional cultures based on their obviously real South and East Asian counterparts. Word choices were edited throughout for tone, like removing “exotic” and “mysterious” replacing it with a better adjective to describe its people and places, so that players inhabiting eastern characters in their games aren’t just a stereotype of strange, unknown people, and placed them at the center of this book. This was an issue for us in the original version, as it often assumed to paint all eastern characters with the same brush, instead of inspiring a sense of rich societies and cultures.

For example, the “Martial Arts” talent tree title was changed to reflect our editorial view, as associated unarmed combat with eastern peoples has a poor tradition of Orientalism within the hobby, when there are counterparts all over the world. Instead they are now called “Unarmed” techniques. The Lotus Road section was edited so as not to over-emphasise it as a drug route because “Chinese drug dealers” is another vicious stereotype used in stories that portray East Asian characters as a threat to the Western world, and is not something we wanted to publish. Lotus was not removed, only the tone of the passage has been changed. Equally, the tone describing the Vendhyan caste system was toned down, so it was not so absolute and all-encompassing as it was portrayed—as is not the case in South Asia—and provided players with a richer, more inspiring write up.

The material is and always has been wholly faithful to Robert E Howard. We’re not changing anything about the setting or the world. Not a single word of REH’s text has been altered. The only adjustments are being made to the game content itself, or fiction we’ve derived and extrapolated from his works, particularly the way we discuss and present that material. In discussing these concerns with Cabinet themselves, they confirmed to us that anything new that is published derived from Robert E Howard’s work is pastiche, and as such should be fitting for a modern audience. This new version of Wanderer, and all of its changes, was approved by them.

Orientalism, particularly in gaming fiction, has been a trend and trope for many years that has made our East Asian friends within this hobby feel unwelcome and regarded as strange. With these edits, we present a more well-rounded, better developed, and above all inclusive expansion to the Conan roleplaying game.

Finally, it’s been noted that the credits for the two authors and editor of the initial version have been removed. This isn’t a punishment, it was done so at their request, and we’ve honoured that. We would have happily published their credits if they had wanted.

I hope all of you guys have been clamouring for "a more well-rounded, better developed, and above all inclusive expansion to the Conan roleplaying game". Clamour no more, for your prayers have been answered!
Now with a Zine!
ⓘ This post is disputed by official sources

Brad

  • No me gusta
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2450
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2020, 02:09:36 pm »
Why don't they just make Conan a black lesbian and be done with it?

shuddemell

  • Wondering Taoist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 539
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2020, 02:20:40 pm »
They're going to lose my business if they neuter the seminal barbarian. I have everything in that line so far.... guaranteed the "SOY" crowd hardly plays Conan if at all.
Science is the belief in the ignorance of the expertsRichard Feynman

Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more.Nikola Tesla

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.Bruce Lee

He who lives in harmony with himself lives in harmony with the universe.Marcus Aurelius

For you see we are aimless hate filled animals scampering away into the night.Skwisgaar Skwigelf

hedgehobbit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2020, 02:26:08 pm »
"Martial Arts" is racist now. It's amazing that I can still be surprised by the things that SJWs decide to be offended by.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 02:32:20 pm by hedgehobbit »

Jaeger

  • That someone better.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 611
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2020, 03:33:19 pm »
"Martial Arts" is racist now. It's amazing that I can still be surprised by the things that SJWs decide to be offended by.


I'm baffled that the Monk character class in D&D hasn't received the screaming banshee Racissssss treatment yet.

It hits all the same talking points that were used to villainize AD&D's Oriental adventures.

I suspect that the reason it has escaped censure is that for the few SJW's who actually play the game - it is one of the favored classes for various snowflake reasons...

IMHO,

We need to do a organized "undercover" operation to see if we can get WOTC to remove the Monk character class from 5e.

We take all the talking points and SJW feels language used to demonize oriental adventures, and turn them around on the Monk. If done with some subtlety we could probably even get many actual SJW's to help take the social media fight to WOTC for us.

Because at this point... Why not.
"The envious are not satisfied with equality; they secretly yearn for superiority and revenge."

Brad

  • No me gusta
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2450
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2020, 03:37:32 pm »
The monk class is problematic because it implies monks have some sort of "oriental martial arts" training instead of the ability to illuminate Bibles. I am outraged.

Omega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • O
  • Posts: 14475
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2020, 03:41:05 pm »
How the hell do you make Conan more "inclusive"?

Non-whites allready pretty much dominate the setting.

VisionStorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2020, 03:50:35 pm »
This entire thing is an exercise on looking for things to be offended by, but none more than this...

Quote
For example, the “Martial Arts” talent tree title was changed to reflect our editorial view, as associated unarmed combat with eastern peoples has a poor tradition of Orientalism within the hobby, when there are counterparts all over the world. Instead they are now called “Unarmed” techniques.

Why, yes... there is a broad variety of combat styles and techniques--both armed and unarmed--all over the world, not just in eastern countries. And they are all called and fall under the category of:

Martial Arts

The subject of "Martial Arts" is not just limited to unarmed techniques or Eastern styles, but applies to ALL combat forms. And there're ALL called "Martial Arts", since acronyms like "HEMA" (Historical European MARTIAL ARTS). "Martial Arts" is not even an eastern language term.

You mongoloids.

hedgehobbit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2020, 04:42:40 pm »
The subject of "Martial Arts" is not just limited to unarmed techniques or Eastern styles, but applies to ALL combat forms. And there're ALL called "Martial Arts", since acronyms like "HEMA" (Historical European MARTIAL ARTS). "Martial Arts" is not even an eastern language term.

en.chinaculture.org, a website run by the CCP's Ministry of Culture calls it "Chinese Martial Arts". It's clear that the only people offended by this term are white liberals.

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8364
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2020, 04:45:07 pm »
The subject of "Martial Arts" is not just limited to unarmed techniques or Eastern styles, but applies to ALL combat forms. And there're ALL called "Martial Arts", since acronyms like "HEMA" (Historical European MARTIAL ARTS). "Martial Arts" is not even an eastern language term.
Isn't that the point of the complaint? I agree with your point here - but that problem is that in practice, almost no one refers to Conan the Barbarian as a "martial arts film" or Errol Flynn as a "martial arts star". For example, in my copy of GURPS Martial Arts (3rd ed), the cover has a yin-yang symbol and there are seven weapon tables: Chinese, Japanese, Ninja, Philippine, Indonesian, Indian, and Korean. So clearly it's not about all combat forms but rather focused on Asian forms.

That said, I'm not familiar with the "Martial Arts" talent tree in the Conan 2d20 system. Does anyone know what was included in that tree originally?

Premier

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • P
  • Posts: 1140
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2020, 05:16:42 pm »
I demand a Cimmerian cultural sensitivity reader. Shouldn't be hard seeing how it's a real fucking place.
Obvious troll is obvious. RIP, Bill.

ponta1010

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • p
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2020, 05:38:26 pm »
I've just checked this up because I thought 'martial arts' meant something different (ie had a far broader application).

The following is quoted from wikipedia.
Quote
Martial arts are codified systems and traditions of combat practiced for a number of reasons such as self-defense; military and law enforcement applications; competition; physical, mental, and spiritual development; entertainment; and the preservation of a nation's intangible cultural heritage.[1]

Although the term martial art has become associated with the fighting arts of East Asia it originally referred to the combat systems of Europe as early as the 1550s. The term is derived from Latin and means "arts of Mars", the Roman god of war.[2]

Now I must admit I don't consider wikipedia to be the most accurate source of information, but even they confirm my previous understanding of martial arts to mean any form of combat (including greco-roman wrestling)

So basically we now need to use alternate terms because of the (possible) reader's ignorance!

tenbones

  • Poobah of the D.O.N.G.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4688
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2020, 05:50:09 pm »
Enjoy your Soy.

Another game to strike off the list. Money better spent elsewhere. Why invest in the cultural sensitivities of white liberals?

That's the only real culture they care about (which is why they're the actual racists)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 05:53:08 pm by tenbones »

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 13984
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2020, 05:54:46 pm »
We need to do a organized "undercover" operation to see if we can get WOTC to remove the Monk character class from 5e.

I LOVE THIS IDEA!!!


VisionStorm

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
    • View Profile
Re: Coming soon to your favourite game store: Soynan the Barbarian
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2020, 06:44:20 pm »
The subject of "Martial Arts" is not just limited to unarmed techniques or Eastern styles, but applies to ALL combat forms. And there're ALL called "Martial Arts", since acronyms like "HEMA" (Historical European MARTIAL ARTS). "Martial Arts" is not even an eastern language term.
Isn't that the point of the complaint? I agree with your point here - but that problem is that in practice, almost no one refers to Conan the Barbarian as a "martial arts film" or Errol Flynn as a "martial arts star". For example, in my copy of GURPS Martial Arts (3rd ed), the cover has a yin-yang symbol and there are seven weapon tables: Chinese, Japanese, Ninja, Philippine, Indonesian, Indian, and Korean. So clearly it's not about all combat forms but rather focused on Asian forms.

Unfortunately that's true, and it came about after the term "Martial Arts" became associated with eastern unarmed styles with the influx of Martial Arts films in the 70s, which continued in the 80s and somewhat the 90s.

However, that was at the turn of the last century. We're living in 2020 now. HEMA is all over YouTube. People know about Capoeira, Krav Maga and other non-Eastern martial arts as well. People should know "Martial Arts" extends beyond just eastern styles of unarmed combat by now, and even if they don't they're still in error and need to be corrected, not change the meaning of the term "Martial Arts" cuz some people are idiots.

This was a pet peeve of mine even in the 90s (the decade I started playing), and I would frequently correct people when it came up during play or character creation, and point out that swinging a sword itself was a martial art.