This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.

Author Topic: Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.  (Read 4072 times)

Stephen Tannhauser

  • Curmudgeonly Refugee
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • S
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2020, 03:51:35 pm »
Quote from: Simon W;1145207
In the Netflix series Vikings, didn't one of the characters have little or no use of his legs? (I didn't watch it much). I think he mostly used a chariot?

Yes, that was Ivar the Boneless, who was actually a pretty awesome character. Played by Alex Hogh. He also used crutches and braces.

EDIT: It must also be acknowledged, however, that that series featured Ivar striking up a friendship with Prince Oleg of the Kievan Rus and riding with him on a hot air balloon, which Oleg apparently invented about 900 years ahead of time, so the series' historicity is, er, not strict.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 04:27:59 pm by Stephen Tannhauser »
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

STR 8 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 11 WIS 6 CHA 3

Stephen Tannhauser

  • Curmudgeonly Refugee
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • S
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2020, 04:02:00 pm »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1145213
The correct rebuttal is: "what you are demanding has nothing to do with gaming".

Or only incidentally, at any rate. Insofar as all RPGing has a streak of wish-fulfillment in it, I have no objection to anyone else's per se; the difficulty here is that the particular type of fantasy being sought is something of a contradiction -- the desire is to "eat one's cake and have it too", to have players' RL experiences of personal obstacles represented without those experiences being obstacles in the game for the PC.

I won't say this is impossible, but it does strike me as something difficult enough to do plausibly that each group and PC is going to need to work out their own individual solution for it, tailored exactly to a specific hypothetical PC.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

STR 8 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 11 WIS 6 CHA 3

Lurkndog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2020, 10:49:29 am »
Quote from: RandyB;1144575
Or magical healing is somewhere between severely limited to nonexistent, with "there's always a price to be paid" fully in scope.


At which point you won't have to worry about players at all.

Seriously, magical healing is essential. It's there so that a chance encounter with goblins on the way to the dungeon doesn't sideline half the party for a month. It balances a feeling of danger with the ability to keep playing the game.

The Exploited.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1207
    • View Profile
    • https://www.instagram.com/robnecronomicon/
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2020, 11:45:20 am »
Grimjim's just released a good vid on the matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_t9vMKRhyo&t=0s
https://www.instagram.com/robnecronomicon/

'Attack minded and dangerously so.' - W. E. Fairbairn.

Manic Modron

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • M
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2020, 12:03:21 pm »
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1145289
Or only incidentally, at any rate. Insofar as all RPGing has a streak of wish-fulfillment in it, I have no objection to anyone else's per se; the difficulty here is that the particular type of fantasy being sought is something of a contradiction -- the desire is to "eat one's cake and have it too", to have players' RL experiences of personal obstacles represented without those experiences being obstacles in the game for the PC.

I won't say this is impossible, but it does strike me as something difficult enough to do plausibly that each group and PC is going to need to work out their own individual solution for it, tailored exactly to a specific hypothetical PC.

I agree.  This isn't a one size fits all scenario, to be sure.  It works for that person and fits what she wants to be able to do in her fantasy world, clearly.  Even for somebody else in her position with her conditions, they might not want the same thing out of their gaming.

Sufficiently applied thaumaturgy is indistinguishable from technology though, and while this wouldn't work for actual period games, other fantasy settings might not have the same limitations.

It would be incongruous in Lion and Dragon for sure.

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3261
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2020, 01:17:40 pm »
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1145255
I don't see the attraction at all, and it smacks of fetishism, which creeps me the fuck out. There is nothing 'awesome' or 'empowering' about having limited mobility. Even on a temporary basis it's no fun.

The minis are pretty awesome.

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2415
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2020, 03:01:01 pm »
Quote from: Mistwell;1145514
The minis are pretty awesome.

Oh well then everybody is wrong to reject this BS and we should all embrace it or be burned at the stake.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

Razor 007

  • Razor 007
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2020, 04:03:33 pm »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1144548
Just what the tin says.

The Wheelchair has to be as light as a 21st century sports one.

It has to be able to be folded and not add width to the character in any axis.

It has to add zero drag when swimming.

It has to fly in order to traverse cliffs leaving the character the hands free if it needs them to fend of monsters.

It has to be able to change course when flying to avoid attacks.

It has to be self propelling to traverse muddy roads without loosing more speed than anyone walking.

Towns need accessibility ramps.

It probably needs to be able to propel the user even when folded in flooded tunnels for instance, and add zero weight.

The user has to be able to get on/off of it as fast as a character dropping to the floor, getting up.

It has to be able to jump chasms.

It has to be fire proof and not heat conductive.

It has to not slow down the user in steep inclines.

It has to not roll down those same steep inclines.

It has to be able to traverse rope bridges.

Or you have to eliminate anything and everything from your world that would make it impossible to be wheelchair bound and go adventuring you bigots!


Why are you inserting Inspector Gadget into my medieval fantasy setting?
I need you to roll a perception check.....

Stephen Tannhauser

  • Curmudgeonly Refugee
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • S
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2020, 05:59:53 pm »
Quote from: Razor 007;1145542
Why are you inserting Inspector Gadget into my medieval fantasy setting?

"Go, go, Gadget Rotor-Flail!"
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

STR 8 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 11 WIS 6 CHA 3

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2415
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2020, 06:05:08 pm »
Quote from: Razor 007;1145542
Why are you inserting Inspector Gadget into my medieval fantasy setting?

You don't want to be a bigot do you?
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 13984
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2020, 06:34:15 pm »
Wanna have a PC in a wheelchair? Great. Now you're fucked in combat.

All the magic necessary to create a mobile mecha is far more magic than a healing spell. It's beyond idiocy in D&D and only makes the slightest "sense" in point-buy games where "can't walk" gives you a bucket of points to spend on other stuff.

I've been hospitalized by drunk/distracted drivers twice and lost some or most of my mobility for months while in recovery. There was nothing stunning, brave or empowering from the experience. As my friends are dark humor monsters, we had lots of fun at my expense, but there wasn't a moment when I wanted to play a PC afflicted with any disability. Again, that's why I smell sexual fetish with these D&D Twitter freaks.

One of my RIFTS pregens was born crippled and in a post-apoc monster filled world, it's amazing she made it to her late teens when her village sold her to slavers who borg'd her against her will. It was a tragic character to roleplay. Unsurprising, she was rarely chosen among the PCs even though she was very powerful on paper.

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16873
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2020, 06:51:05 pm »
I'm sitting here just wondering, "Why?"

Fuck the wheelchair, cut my character's useless legs off and shove his torso into a backpack with a bow and arrows. Now you have someone covering your back!

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2062
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2020, 07:59:47 pm »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1145554
You don't want to be a bigot do you?


Bit too late to start worrying about that.

;)
Life is Hard; Play Short

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3261
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2020, 08:03:42 pm »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1145539
Oh well then everybody is wrong to reject this BS and we should all embrace it or be burned at the stake.

Are you high, to have gotten that from "the minis are pretty awesome"?

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8352
    • View Profile
Combat Wheelchairs and how to make them work in medieval settings.
« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2020, 08:10:57 pm »
It's not a given that magic will let you automatically cure any injury more easily than creating an automaton. Magic varies a ton from game to game. For example, I'm playing in Call of Cthulhu now, and we regularly have to deal with a PC being temporarily disabled from a major injury. And here "temporarily" means weeks in-game since there is no healing magic. We have some magic from spell books (mostly summoning horribly things), but no healing magic. We haven't had a permanent crippling in my current game, but it's not impossible to imagine how it could work.

The only long-term wheelchair-using PC I recall was a long time ago, in a realistic modern-day superpowers game I ran in college. One of the PCs had electrical powers, and would have died from being shot, but as a twist, I offered to have him live but his spinal cord was severed. After the injury, he learned he could temporarily still use his legs by using his powers, but only for a short time and with concentration. So he needed a wheelchair for any long-term movement. I thought that made for a very interesting wrinkle to the game.

One of my favorite PCs in recent years didn't use a wheelchair, but did have limited mobility and used a cane to walk. It was in a game based on the TV series Alphas, where all the PCs had a neurological super-ability but it came with a major downside. My son's PC had perfect muscular control - he could make a house of cards as quickly as he could move his hand and was a masterful pickpocket and martial artist, but at the cost that he couldn't fully relax and was tired all the time. He needed a cane and frequent stops to get around. It was an intriguing concept that worked well in play.

I haven't had a wheelchair user in a fantasy game, but that doesn't mean it's an unworkable concept. I've had plenty of PCs with different disabilities -- partly but not wholly because of a past fondness for GURPS and HERO. It's sometimes taken some thinking to work them in, but doing so has always meant the game was better for it.


Quote from: Spinachcat;1145557
Wanna have a PC in a wheelchair? Great. Now you're fucked in combat.

All the magic necessary to create a mobile mecha is far more magic than a healing spell. It's beyond idiocy in D&D and only makes the slightest "sense" in point-buy games where "can't walk" gives you a bucket of points to spend on other stuff.

I've been hospitalized by drunk/distracted drivers twice and lost some or most of my mobility for months while in recovery. There was nothing stunning, brave or empowering from the experience. As my friends are dark humor monsters, we had lots of fun at my expense, but there wasn't a moment when I wanted to play a PC afflicted with any disability.
I'm sorry about your accidents -- and it's totally a valid preference to not want to play a PC with any disability. That said, just because you wouldn't want it or you would be offended by it, that doesn't mean it can't be fun for other groups.