This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Author Topic: Closed-ended campaigns  (Read 1375 times)

JimBob

  • Newbie
  • *
  • J
  • Posts: 16
    • http://www.gamecircle.org
Closed-ended campaigns
« on: May 02, 2006, 01:37:46 AM »
Over on the thread on rpg.net where we're spruiking the site, Nick expressed better than I've been able to why we might have closed-ended campaigns, and shuffle around from campaign to campaign - which is why we need the gamecircle.org site.

Quote
I think Kyle was referring to X-Files and B5 DVDs. We all know that the X-Files ended. I guess the point is that knowing that it has an end point hasn't stopped people from buying the DVDs

And yet, with RPGs, it seems that stating right from the start that the game will end seems to be an anathema to some.

I'll go back to your example of Buffy, which I think is a good one.

Consider each season to be a campaign. You might describe the end of the season as a "soft" cap, but it could also be a "hard" cap for some players. Afterall, characters in Buffy come and go each season.

In the game circle, there is nothing to stop a game finishing it's "run", and the GM pitching for the next season. Some players will jump on board, and (to continue the analogy) their characters carry over to the next season. Some choose not to. Their characters leave the series - maybe even die in a spectacular season finale! They might even bow out for a season and then come back the next one. Perhaps left to be a GM-controlled NPC. Like Angel going "bad" during Buffy (season 2 or 3, I forget).

The point still remains the same. The game has a break point where players can, if they want, jump off and reconsider their participation. Other players can jump on. Whether you call that a "soft" break or a "hard" break doesn't really matter.

IME, a lot of games don't have any breaks. Except for when the heroic adventurers return to the inn for some healing. But the game goes on immediately afterwards. Great stories have structure - a begining, a middle and an end. Sure, there may be a sequel, but the story still ends somewhere.

Personally, I got enamoured with the idea because I had come from a D&D campaign where some of the players had been playing the same characters for 15 years. And some of the group didn't really like the game, but felt awkward about complaining because they didn't want to be critical of their friends. Here on RPG.net, you'll always get the advice that "no gaming is better than bad gaming"... usually followed by the recommendation to find another group.

So people either stick to their existing group and feel miserable, or dumped their group and feel disloyal. Maybe a better answer is to match players with games on a campaign-by-campaign basis in a guilt free environment. I can turn to my group and say "D&D again? Not for me guys... let me know when you want to pitch something else." The difference is, under the game circle model, my "group" is 20-30 players and if 4-5 of them want to play D&D then there will be at least 20 left over to try something else.

It don't want to get too fluffy here, but it seems to me that there is some interesting thought being developed over roleplaying theory. Places like The Forge are pushing people to rethink the paradigms of how we play our games. But we are not thinking quite so deeply about the organisational dynamics that get us together in the first place. Maybe there are alternative models?

Thoughts?
Game Circle - bringing Australasian gamers together

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2006, 02:48:37 AM »
I've done both types of campaigns (open and closed), and both work well.  Most of my campaigns do have a fixed lifespan, though in some cases it can be a huge length of time, and in many cases I don't particularly announce it.  I wrote a blog entry about this once.

As of right now, my games have lifespans as follows:

OD&D campaign: Was to max level (36), and will actually likely end next week. We were going to try to play the immortality quests, but basically everyone is too burnt out on the campaign (after 18 months of weekly gaming) to do it. The "lifespan" of the game was not fixed to a particular game-time or real-time, but to the goal of reaching maximum levels

Traveller: Had a fixed timeline (5 game years) from the start. Currently the game has less that two years to go.

Wilderlands/Forward... To Adventure!: meant to be run as a playtest campaign. Will be played until I'm satisfied that the game is do-able at the campaign level.

Roman Immortal Campaign: has the rather high goal of running from the birth of the roman empire (23 bce) to the end of the western roman empire (476ce). The game is currently in the year 63 ad.

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Paka

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • P
  • Posts: 194
    • http://www.ithacagamers.com/sonsofkryos.html
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2006, 09:10:10 AM »
I found that describing a game like a TV show really helped.

For the Riddle of Steel via brutal medieval vampires, The Riddle of Blood mini-campaign (available here for free download; check the files section), I said to my players, "I'd like to give this a shot and see how it goes.  If we like the first few games, consider them the pilot episodes, then we'll renew for another season."

And in play, you could really see where the seasons would be cut off.  It was fun thinking of a series of games as a set of DVD's and it helped every think about how long the campaign would play on.

Sobek

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • S
  • Posts: 184
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2006, 10:02:41 AM »
I've not run a closed campaign before.  A few have had a point where everyone said, "Well, that looks like a wrap," but most just petered out.  The latter was rather unsatifying.
 
My current campaign has a definite end-point, but I think I may have tried to stretch it out too far (30th level).
 
I'm starting to come of the opinion that it'd be nice to come up with a story I wanted to tell/explore and create characters appropriate to that.  Then, run the game, and when it's over, the group can decide whether a sequel or spin-off is in order.  In all likelyhood, that'll be my approach to my next campaign.  Unless, that is, I decide (or am encouraged) to go pure beer-and-pretzels dungeon delve.
 

Dr_Avalanche

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • D
  • Posts: 283
    • http://calaveth.livejournal.com
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2006, 10:09:30 AM »
I've been drifting more and more towards close-ended campaigns as my experience with open-ended has generally been unsatisfying (though it took a while before I started to see the pattern). At the same time, I don't like the finality of saying "that's it, for next time, make new characters", so I'm quite open to sequels, or new seasons of the tv show if you like that parallell.

Paka

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • P
  • Posts: 194
    • http://www.ithacagamers.com/sonsofkryos.html
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2006, 10:10:52 AM »
The other important thing for me and campaigns that are indefinite, is that I do not have a definite end point in mind.  I riff off of the player's decisions and an end point definitely becomes clear through their character goals.

In the first half of The Riddle of Blood, it was the re-taking of Caste Sunless from those who opposed the Arch-Duke and the second half was the sacking of the holy city, The Jewel of the North.

Cyberzombie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 723
    • http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2006, 10:44:07 AM »
I like the anime model -- you have a beginning, middle, and definite end.  Depending on the story, you could have sequels or not.

I ran a closed-end D&D Greyhawk campaign in Furyundy that ended up being called CSI: Chendl.  The party was commissioned by the king to see if one of his lawful evil dukes was hiring hobgoblin mercenaries, which would be high treason against the crown.  Turns out the lawful evil duke *was* hiring hobgoblin mercenaries, but that was because he knew Iuz was about to come howling back into the country with his chaotic evil orcs and demons.

It was a very fun game, but it had a very definite ending.  We could have done a sequel, but Dr. Avalanche went back to Sweden and it wouldn't be the same without his character.  :)
 

Bagpuss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • B
  • Posts: 552
    • http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.maple/
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2006, 10:57:58 AM »
I'm really luckly in some respects with the group I'm in at the moment. There are seven of us and all of us GM one game system or more.

We rotate every couple of months so even open games don't end up getting stale and after the break you want to get back to playing those old characters. So far I've run All Flesh Must Be Eaten with Pre-gens for a 3 session game. Feng Shui - for about 2 months worth of games.

Last night I ran some players through the Cybergeneration character creation game, as our current D&D GM wasn't able to make it. I'll probably run that when it gets to my turn again or as a one session filler between games.

With seven different games going on it never gets boring. It does however mean it will probably take several years to finish the Age of Worms Campaign we have going.

In general I prefer closed campaigns, but even in a open campaigns I often "close" a particular characters story, the idea of playing the same character constantly for 15 years is like the idea of only eating cherry crumble with custard for every meal for that time. While I might love cherry crumble it's going to get dull and eventually put me off it.
 

David R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • D
  • Posts: 6874
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2006, 11:03:48 AM »
I more or less run only close-ended campaigns. When I first began playing RPGS ,the campaigns used to chug a long until we just got bored and stopped playing or our interest led us to other games.

When I ran The Enemy Within for WFRP, I kind of got a frame work as to how I like my campaigns to begin and end. Ending things well, has been a crucial component to all my campaigns.

I run all my campaigns in tv serial mode. For instance I may tell my crew that I am interested in running a campaign which would last for a couple of seasons -each season lasting about 12 sessions. If the players take to it then cool, if not we scrap the whole thing.

Running campaigns in this kind of serial nature allows me to intriduce story arcs, and concentrate on specific players each "season" or for a couple of episodes and allows the players to keep track of what is going on in the campaign. Everyone if they wanted to has a chance at the spotlight.

Now sometimes because I allow the players a lot of leway, and inject certain adventure ideas and plot points, the campaign may take a little longer to end, but that's cool, because everyone at the table knows it's going to end, and sometimes this fact imbues the sessions esp towards the end with a aura of urgency.

Also close ended campaigns  work for me, because you can maintain the mystery of the adventures/setting long after the campaign has ended. By this I mean that there were other puzzles and strangeness in the setting that the players did not investigate  because they were to busy accomplishing the goals of the campaign. These little pieces of atmosphere remain in the minds of the players long after the game has ended.

About the only drawback that I can think of at the moment, is that I sometimes feel, that the players do not have enough time to grow into their characters, esp if I place a time limit on how long the campaign will last. For longer term campaigns this is not a problem, but for campaigns lasting a brief period, my players have said that they feel they had not got a handle on their characters. This is why I still run close ended campaigns but the campaigns themselves last longer, in(my version of ) tv serial terms at least a minimum of 3 seasons.

Regards,
David R

Dr_Avalanche

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • D
  • Posts: 283
    • http://calaveth.livejournal.com
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2006, 11:12:25 AM »
Quote from: Cyberzombie
It was a very fun game, but it had a very definite ending.  We could have done a sequel, but Dr. Avalanche went back to Sweden and it wouldn't be the same without his character.  :)

You make me feel all special, like. :blush:

Cyberzombie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 723
    • http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2006, 11:27:30 AM »
Quote from: Dr_Avalanche
You make me feel all special, like. :blush:
:heh:

Now I'm imagining your character daintily holding her parasol and batting her eyelashes.  :)
 

Dr_Avalanche

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • D
  • Posts: 283
    • http://calaveth.livejournal.com
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2006, 11:30:13 AM »
Quote from: Cyberzombie
:heh:

Now I'm imagining your character daintily holding her parasol and batting her eyelashes.  :)

Indeed. Not to mention blushing modestly. :mischief:

blakkie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • b
  • Posts: 2648
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2006, 11:51:22 AM »
The "end" is just another milestone on the road that you happen to label as the end.  If you are perpetually unable to identify any meaningful milestones then you don't know where your are and likely don't know where you are going. You lack focus and are adrift.

While not all campaigns reach an end, all campaigns end. I suggest that without at least the viable option of reaching the end to your campaign you are lost and are destined to an anonymous death of malaise in the wastelands of boredom.
"Because honestly? I have no idea what you do. None." - Pierce Inverarity

shooting_dice

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • s
  • Posts: 170
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2006, 12:34:47 PM »
I ran two interlinked SF games for short, 8-session arcs. They went pretty well. On the other hand, my Mage game consisted of three interlocking storylines that lasted for six years and ended in events that were effectively playtests for a number of the Mage books I contributed to. And, of course, I've run and played in a couple of multi-year D&D games.

Having a game just die off? That doesn't happen to me much any more. Part of it is a matter of adapting the group. Right now I alternate with another GM in 6 session exchanges. This works pretty well, since (including alternate plans and cancellations) it means we switch roughly every two months.
 

JongWK

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3010
Closed-ended campaigns
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2006, 01:08:54 PM »
The SR3 campaign I'm running began in 2054 and will end after Harlequin's Back, somewhere in 2057. The players are about to feel some bug love. :heh:
"I give the gift of endless imagination."
~~Gary Gygax (1938 - 2008)