Hiya,
We're reading the Classic Trav book and my platers are going apeshit because they don't understand the experience rules and are afraid that they won't never ever raise any score and this idea makes them freak out like the whiny bitches that roleplayers can be.
I haven't got to read that chapter thoroughly yet (still wrapping my head around the starship combat rules, fucking shit, you have to calculate fucking vectors) but I'd like to ask if someone experienced in this game can explain to me how is experience earned so I can tell my crew to shut the fuck up already.
Thanks in advance. :)
Classic Traveller doesn't have XP. I don't have the books in front of me, but the gist of it is, PC's have to find an Instructor, or other teaching method, then study a while (don't remember if it's six months or a year) to get one new Skill or one new Skill Level.
In other words, kind of like real life.
After all, in Character Generation, PC's only get 1-3 skills per TERM (4 years). So it's assumed it will be no faster in play.
Instead of XP, Traveller PC's earn pay, get new gear, new contacts, etc. All in play.
Yup no XP in Traveller.
In Classic Traveller the skills start low and then don't improve much :)
There are options......
We used to add a learning by doing rule.
Everytime you used a skill in a stressful situation you got a tick. you could burn 12 ticks on that skill to roll 2d6 the target was above 7+ your current skill level. If you rolled above you added an extra skill level.
Trouble is that
i) its a lot of paper work
ii) Combat skills get up to 3 or 4 very fast and thern sucess is really easy so you have a feedback.... so we restricted increases to per combat (rather than per sucess) and that kind of fixed it.
Tell the players that they should focus on wealth, social status, information, and contacts.
yup, as nightwind1 and others have said. you may want to add on another form of xp/advancement system, like the one from megatraveller, for example.
You can also try some alternative means of xp - like reward - they still need to seek training to get new/upgraded skills, but for example - if a player successfully employed his combat skills a lot on the prior session, perhaps he has a right to reroll those combat skills once during the next game/day/adventure (choose the least metagaming type if that pains you), to represent his growing experience and specialisation with combat skills. That stuff.
Quote from: estar;531676Tell the players that they should focus on wealth, social status, information, and contacts.
This, or you can come up with something.
Honestly, this was one of the things I loved because it gave me room to experiment and find a system that worked for each group I was running. The only maxims that seemed to apply to each group was that the xp system should be simple and make level-0 skills relatively easy to achieve while it gets progressively harder to achieve higher levels of skill.
Awesome. Anyway I will bring kleenex to the game so the tears won't drown me.
You have to understand them, they just came out of a 34 - session 7Th Sea
campaign and they're used to getting XP and regularly gaining dots in stuff :D
Another Trav question!
Am I a bloody heathen if I ever consider running MegaTraveller? Which are the differences between CT and MT? My only contact with MT was through an old videogame called MT: The Zhodani Conspiracy a million years ago. Can I find useful things in MT to mine for CT? Am I dumb?
Quote from: Imperator;531697Another Trav question!
Am I a bloody heathen if I ever consider running MegaTraveller? Which are the differences between CT and MT? My only contact with MT was through an old videogame called MT: The Zhodani Conspiracy a million years ago. Can I find useful things in MT to mine for CT? Am I dumb?
I despise MT, but the one single greatest contribution it has given is one that I use in every game I run. That is the "visual nugget" adventure format that was described in the Megatraveller Referee's Screen.
Quote from: jeff37923;531704I despise MT, but the one single greatest contribution it has given is one that I use in every game I run. That is the "visual nugget" adventure format that was described in the Megatraveller Referee's Screen.
Could you elaborate on this when you have some spare minutes? :) I mean elaborate about ypur despise and the reasons to it, and that nugget you speak about.
Actually, this is close and it comes from my playtest document for T20. The Epic Adventure System also is not bad to use and is very similar to the Visual Nugget system.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Epic Adventure System
The problem with many adventures is that they are very 'linear' in design, in that encounter one typically leads to encounter two, which inevitably leads
to encounter three, ad-nauseum. This is fine until you get player characters involved who always seem to want to go from encounter one, to encounter
12, back to encounter 3, over the woods to an area you haven't developed yet, and general cause mayhem to the plot of an otherwise great adventure.
The Epic Adventure System provides a new way to design and organize adventures, that allowing the player characters the 'freedom to roam' without
causing the referee nightmares. An Epic Adventure is broken down into 6 parts:
The Cast of Characters
The Background – The background provides the Referee with the information needed to prepare himself, and lay the groundwork for introducing this
adventure to the players.
Minor Scenes – Minor Scenes or just Scenes, are encounters or events that involve the player characters in some form. Many are directly related to the
adventure, and may provide clues, equipment, or other information and materials needed to eventually complete the adventure. Others are merely to
provide diversion and amusement. Scenes, unless noted in their descriptions, do not need to be played in any particular order, and may be sprung upon
the player characters when the Referee deems appropriate.
Plot Keys – Plot Keys or simply Keys, make up the heart of the storyline for the adventure. They contain key pieces to the plot that must be played for
the adventure to make any sense to the players in the end. You may play any number of Scenes before and after each Plot Keys, but each Plot Keys
should eventually be completed in their proper order.
Chapters – A Chapter is made up of one of more Plot Keys. They outline the plot to the referee, and provide tips and information for playing the Scenes
and Plot Keys that are contained in the Chapter. In order to complete a Chapter, each Plot Key within must be completed. Each Chapter must be
completed, and played in order to successfully run the adventure.
Because of the 'cinematic' nature of this adventure, it is easy for the Referee to allow the player characters to temporarily deviate from the current
adventure storyline to follow a false lead or pursue another short adventure that has interested them. When you are ready to return the player characters
back to this adventure plot line, simply pick up with the next Scene.
Adventure Checklist – The Adventure Checklist provides newer referees a recommended guideline of the order in which various Scenes and Plot Keys
in this adventure should be presented to the players. As the player characters complete each Scene or Plot Key, the Referee simply checks it off the list.
When every Plot Key in a Chapter has been played, that Chapter has been completed the Referee may begin the first Scene in the next Chapter.
You will note that not every Minor Scene is included in the Checklist. This allows Referees who would like to use the Checklist, but would like to changes
things a little bit to swap out scenes, or included their own custom scenes. If you feel comfortable in letting your characters stray from the order of the
checklist, you may determine the 'cinematic' order of the scenes as you see fit, or use the weekly events chart below to determine the course of events.
2D Weekly Event
2-8 Play a Minor Scene/Find a Ruin
9-11 Starport Run. The Professor has some errand requiring the characters to go to the local starport for the week.
12 Plot Key
Play a Minor Scene – Select one of the Minor Scenes detailed later and run the scene as directed.
Starport Run – This is an excuse and an opportunity to bring in sideline encounters, patrons and scenarios unrelated to this adventure.
Play a Plot Key – Plots Keys should be played in order for the adventure to make sense to the players as it was written. If you change the order of the
Plot Keys, you should be sure to adjust any of the other scenes to ensure the adventure flows properly and makes sense.
megatraveller was my big thing back in the late 80s & 90s. however, there are tons of errata, so you're best off winging some stats or just treating a lot of stuff as guidelines. i got lucky, and most of my group just took what was printed (or what i ruled) as law and didn't delve too deeply into the mechanics. gearheads now have the errata (http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/ConsolidatedMegaTravellerErrata.pdf) to work with, but back then it was a lot of seat-of-my-pants adjudications, LOL
the two big things to take from MT are the experience system, and the task system.
oh, and anything produced by Digest Group Publications (http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Digest_Group_Publications). pure gold for MT.
if i was to run trav these days, it would be a CT base with those two MT mechanics.
Quote from: Imperator;531705Could you elaborate on this when you have some spare minutes? :) I mean elaborate about ypur despise and the reasons to it, and that nugget you speak about.
I'll post more when I can, but I have to go to work now.
Sorry for the eye-killing wall of text above, I will reformat it when I get home.
Quote from: estar;531676Tell the players that they should focus on wealth, social status, information, and contacts.
This is something I've always loved about Traveller... coming to it as I did straight out of D&D where everyone was obsessed with raising XP/levels. Traveller was a breath of fresh air.
One of the things I like about
Eclipse Phase is its emphasis on the PC's reputation with various groups... because in that setting it really is worth the trouble.
Take it with a grain of salt, but for Trav inspiration: Futurama?
Double bonus points if your patron pitches every mission with "Good news, everyone!"
(http://the-lost-and-the-damned.664610.n2.nabble.com/file/n6817120/trailer-futurama-largometraje.png)
Quote from: Imperator;531697Awesome. Anyway I will bring kleenex to the game so the tears won't drown me.
You have to understand them, they just came out of a 34 - session 7Th Sea
campaign and they're used to getting XP and regularly gaining dots in stuff :D
The
GURPS: TRAVELLER campaign I ran went to over 50 sessions. Sincer it was using GURPS mechanics the players earned Character Points ("XP") with every game session.
It was still the mostly regular Third Imperium universe that I was running.
- Ed C.
A lot of players who are used to D&D, and other games with starting characters who are young, don't realize that not all games do the same thing. Some games, like Traveller are designed with the concept of starting characters who are Professional Adults, instead of Youths just out of Training like D&D. Therefore those games don't have a rapid XP/Training cycle.
Explain to your players that their characters are already skilled, professional Adults...
...or just tell them that stop whining! ;)
Remind them that a medical doctor that specializes in surgery has Medical III. It takes at least two years to gain 1 skill level. Traveller just isn’t D&D or one of its direct children. One could run a Traveller campaign over greater periods of time like Pendragon or Ars Magica, if they feel skill advancement is the main focus. This could be done for a scientific research group, a group controling a government or a large corporation , with scenarios that are set to span decades. However, that isn’t the main focus of Traveller.
Quote from: Imperator;531697Another Trav question!
Am I a bloody heathen if I ever consider running MegaTraveller? Which are the differences between CT and MT? My only contact with MT was through an old videogame called MT: The Zhodani Conspiracy a million years ago. Can I find useful things in MT to mine for CT? Am I dumb?
Go for it. Yes, the experience system and the task system were solid; the massive amounts of errata weren't so great. Also, things actually
happened in the MegaTraveller background. There was a war on, there were great causes to fight for, heinous villains to fight, huge space battles, plot twists galore (Strephon wasn't really dead...) and the PCs made a difference.
And if anyone tries to tell you that you're running the "wrong" version of Traveller, tell them to shove it. We've been listening to that argument for 25 years already (MT came out in '87); enough is enough.
Quote from: jibbajibba;531675ii) Combat skills get up to 3 or 4 very fast and thern sucess is really easy so you have a feedback.... so we restricted increases to per combat (rather than per sucess) and that kind of fixed it.
In real life combat is very dangerous. In real life if you don't get really good at combat really quickly you die sooner rather than later. That and most 'combat skills' are actually pretty easy to learn/do... its just so hard to practice them in realistic circumstances (IE combat) without dying that makes them seem harder.
RPGs give us the idea that you can realistically go into life or death circumstances every other day with only a minimum amount of training and thrive, taking years to learn which end of the gun the bullets come out of.
Just sayin'.
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;531870Go for it. Yes, the experience system and the task system were solid; the massive amounts of errata weren't so great. Also, things actually happened in the MegaTraveller background. There was a war on, there were great causes to fight for, heinous villains to fight, huge space battles, plot twists galore (Strephon wasn't really dead...) and the PCs made a difference.
And if anyone tries to tell you that you're running the "wrong" version of Traveller, tell them to shove it. We've been listening to that argument for 25 years already (MT came out in '87); enough is enough.
Well, at least I can peruse the books looking for ideas to mine. It seems that we will be playing the OTU borrowing plenty of elements from other sources, and anyway, I'm totally into getting stuff and ideas from everywhere, so there.
Quote from: greylond;531767A lot of players who are used to D&D, and other games with starting characters who are young, don't realize that not all games do the same thing. Some games, like Traveller are designed with the concept of starting characters who are Professional Adults, instead of Youths just out of Training like D&D. Therefore those games don't have a rapid XP/Training cycle.
Explain to your players that their characters are already skilled, professional Adults...
...or just tell them that stop whining! ;)
Being 17 and having to start out with a character that was 50. I thought he would die at any moment from being just so dam old.
Quote from: Imperator;531880Well, at least I can peruse the books looking for ideas to mine. It seems that we will be playing the OTU borrowing plenty of elements from other sources, and anyway, I'm totally into getting stuff and ideas from everywhere, so there.
Also check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(role-playing_game) for comparisons of the task systems used.
A good task system document one can use across editions is the one by BITS. It helps with conversion between systems too.
The document in pdf direct from BITS (http://bitsuk.net/Archive/GameAids/files/BITSTaskSystem.pdf)
Quote from: Spike;531874In real life combat is very dangerous. In real life if you don't get really good at combat really quickly you die sooner rather than later. That and most 'combat skills' are actually pretty easy to learn/do... its just so hard to practice them in realistic circumstances (IE combat) without dying that makes them seem harder.
RPGs give us the idea that you can realistically go into life or death circumstances every other day with only a minimum amount of training and thrive, taking years to learn which end of the gun the bullets come out of.
Just sayin'.
I agree with you.
If you look at how that experience model actually works you need to be in and survive 12 firefights to get a chance to put your skill up 1 point.
If you have ever played in Traveller and been in a firefight you will see how unlikely a situation that actually is :)
One of my traveller gripes is that on a high tech say E or F world I can't get un-aged. I would expect to be able to visit a clinic and walk out looking and feling like a 25 year old. One of Traveller's features is that the tech items feel like they come from 1975 extrapolated to 2975
Still a fun game but quite amusing compared to say reading an Iain M Bankes novel.
Quote from: jibbajibba;531908I agree with you.
If you look at how that experience model actually works you need to be in and survive 12 firefights to get a chance to put your skill up 1 point.
If you have ever played in Traveller and been in a firefight you will see how unlikely a situation that actually is :)
One of my traveller gripes is that on a high tech say E or F world I can't get un-aged. I would expect to be able to visit a clinic and walk out looking and feling like a 25 year old. One of Traveller's features is that the tech items feel like they come from 1975 extrapolated to 2975
Still a fun game but quite amusing compared to say reading an Iain M Bankes novel.
If you agree then why have you made it so hard to level up those skills? I doubt you could find many professional soldiers (through the history of firearms even) who survived twelve firefights.... much less the 24 or 36 that they would conceivably need to be considered experts under your system. *
I think the answer is that in RPG terms those skills have a high utility, which makes them disproportionately valuable.
*out of curiousity I looked up Lord Nelson given that Naval battles are much easier to track that the occasionally amorphous nature of land battles. By my count (wiki) he only fought in nine battles, dying in the last. Presumptively, there may be subdivisions and skirmishes that my admittedly sketchy overview. By your count he would not have been able to advance even one skill point based on combat experience in his entire career.
Full age countering has been around since Traveller's first release in book 2.
"Anagathics are drugs which counteract the aging process. A regimen of regular monthly doses enables an individual to ignore the aging die throws and their potential for debilitation. Because of the rarity and demand for anagathics, they are quite expensive, and are often unavailable at any price."
Complete counteraction of aging is available at tech 15, which means lesser forms of age countering are available at lower tech levels. The rarity comment in the description is just a bit of campaign advice.
The other thing that is often mentioned as dated are the computer rules for starships, but I have always felt that the majority of the effort needed to achieve jump drive and the high energy aspects of starships were provided by incredibly advanced computers with applications far beyond such a term could be used in our understanding today. So, the operations a computer must perform are called simply programs, but it is just a term used as a placeholder for some future incredible synthesis of engineering and science, which is why computers require so much power and why computers and programs in computers require so much space.
Combat skill level in Traveller is a measure of how close the character is to their peak of effectiveness, which is a combination of training and experience. A combat skill III is nearing the very peak of capability of a veteran in his ideal level of physical and mental conditioning. It is an abstraction of effectiveness not simply a scale of marksmanship or other narrow aspect. A character with skill level III in an academic skill has a PhD. Skill level I is a lot in of itself. Traveller is a game of small stacked modifiers using 2d6 for resolution. Also, recall that Tactics and Leader are separate skills from the weapon expertise skills.
All of this pertains to Marc's three books, rather than the alternative rules in the later books or other editions.
Quote from: Spike;531910If you agree then why have you made it so hard to level up those skills? I doubt you could find many professional soldiers (through the history of firearms even) who survived twelve firefights.... much less the 24 or 36 that they would conceivably need to be considered experts under your system. *
I think the answer is that in RPG terms those skills have a high utility, which makes them disproportionately valuable.
*out of curiousity I looked up Lord Nelson given that Naval battles are much easier to track that the occasionally amorphous nature of land battles. By my count (wiki) he only fought in nine battles, dying in the last. Presumptively, there may be subdivisions and skirmishes that my admittedly sketchy overview. By your count he would not have been able to advance even one skill point based on combat experience in his entire career.
Because in RPGs combats are far more common than in real life. So over a 6 month campaign I would expect PCs to be in 20 - 30 combats, but Traveller is still a system where,as has been said, rank 3 in a skill is really a genuine master of it and should be rare
I'm still wondering if the players notice the game uses 2d6. That would help explain the seemingly low numbers used for skill levels.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;531920I'm still wondering if the players notice the game uses 2d6. That would help explain the seemingly low numbers used for skill levels.
Ya, the players will appreciate their characters' skills as they are written in game. This talk of Traveller will make me work on a new Traveller campaign during the next few days, which is cool. When I mentioned the aging curatives jibbajibba, I was clarifying a bit that you must have meant or had slipped your mind.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;531920I'm still wondering if the players notice the game uses 2d6. That would help explain the seemingly low numbers used for skill levels.
No, they don't. I think that is part of the problem. Specially bearing in mind than in some skills you may get a DM of +2 or even +4 for each level in the relevant skill. So having a level 2 in something usually is HUGE.
Also, I was reading Book 3, the Animal Encounters and Random Encounters parts, and I got several references to the referee modifying the encounters to suit the plot, the story, and other terms that probably would make some people here shit a brick. Back in 1977, MARC MILLER WAS A SWINE.
Priceless :D
Quote from: Kuroth;531916Full age countering has been around since Traveller's first release in book 2.
"Anagathics are drugs which counteract the aging process. A regimen of regular monthly doses enables an individual to ignore the aging die throws and their potential for debilitation. Because of the rarity and demand for anagathics, they are quite expensive, and are often unavailable at any price."
Complete counteraction of aging is available at tech 15, which means lesser forms of age countering are available at lower tech levels. The rarity comment in the description is just a bit of campaign advice.
But .... this is one of those things that isn;t really thought through.
If antiaging drugs were practiclaly available even if expensive then the Admirals and generals of the Imperium woudl be peopel that woudl ahve em by default. So the guy that gets 5 ranks in Navy but is 65 should actually have the stats of a 25 year old, a 25 year old who is enhanced with an improved lyphatic system, improved perception and reflexes, better strength and all that cyber-punk transhuman type stuff that we are starting to see on good old earth already at tech level 8/9 .
It just seems that a bunch of stuff was in the rules because tech developed in ways people didn't imagine but then the Spectre of GAME BALANCE comes in to replace real tech advancements. Aging drugs come in at tech level F and are socially stigmatised and enhance your life to 100 years, but you can grow clones at tech level C and imcrease its growth rate etc ... Basically its saying hold on if we give high rank/wealth/social status free antiaging then PCs will all be 200 and have loads of skills which breaks the game.
Now I love traveller but this just bugs me like the training rules and demi-human level limits in D&D. You limit an aspect of the game to make it the shape you want but in doing so you create what is for me an immersion break. I would much prefer to look at the rules you are trying to protect and come up with a more "realistic" way of limiting them.
But a minor point you can change the various technologies very easily in the game.
Quote from: Kuroth;531924Ya, the players will appreciate their characters' skills as they are written in game. This talk of Traveller will make me work on a new Traveller campaign during the next few days, which is cool. When I mentioned the aging curatives jibbajibba, I was clarifying a bit that you must have meant or had slipped your mind.
Yeah I haven't playedTraveller for 20 years so I am rusty. But this thread is reminding me of the Weeks I spent mapping out the Excalibur system and the fantastic fun that the Brotherhood (a team of Space Pirates ) had :)
I am thinking about how easy Bankes Culture fits into Traveller and I think its actually a really good mesh provided to tweak the tech.
keep in mind that that stigma to anagathics or whatever is an OTU thing--your trav universe can have all those TL F officials/officers living to 100+ just fine.
then throw in the pureblood vilani bit from DGP's vilani and vargr (http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Alien_-_Vilani_%26_Vargr), and you could probably get to 200 no problem, lol
Quote from: beeber;531937keep in mind that that stigma to anagathics or whatever is an OTU thing--your trav universe can have all those TL F officials/officers living to 100+ just fine.
then throw in the pureblood vilani bit from DGP's vilani and vargr (http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Alien_-_Vilani_%26_Vargr), and you could probably get to 200 no problem, lol
I hadn't thought of that.
Well, you can always justify it saying that is insanely expensive just because and leave it at that. When I say insane I mean INSANE, like in building-a-big-ship expensive.
Quote from: jibbajibba;531919Because in RPGs combats are far more common than in real life. So over a 6 month campaign I would expect PCs to be in 20 - 30 combats, but Traveller is still a system where,as has been said, rank 3 in a skill is really a genuine master of it and should be rare
First, you pointed out that Traveller combat is similarly lethal to real life, thus if your player characters are, in fact, surviving 60 odd combats in six months then.... wow.
Second: I'd expect people with more practice than the average special forces team to have really high combat skill.
As I said, you are weighting the skill based on its perceived utility. Thats a philosophical choice. I'd suggest instead you find a practical way to reduce the random gunfights your traveller characters engage in... as they are more violent than your average D&D player! :)
Expanding upon the perceived disconnect between technological development and technical levels, Traveller tech levels are not catch-all. A society may have higher tech levels in some areas, while lower in others. Even so, with regard to anti-aging, we are a very long way from being able to live forever without any sign of age by simply popping a pill once a month. (yes please) Strength and attribute enhancements are something to write-up with the guidelines provided by those for the other treatments. RNA intelligence or education implants and surgical alteration are also mentioned as possible ways to increase a character's abilities in the experience section of book 2. The particulars of the process are left to the referee and players to decide in game
As to how anti-aging effects characters, one could say that the chance of reducing abilities on the aging table during character creation is the unmodified chance the character has of keeping anti-aging treatment uninterrupted. Perhaps that is exactly what is occurring, and it may explain so many adventurous 46 year old merchants that have gone through the game over the years. ha Anyway, I find these are the type of background aspects one makes up from the random results. I don’t think I have seen a player try to claim anti-age access during character creation, which is odd.
In the Starter edition and the Traveller Book edition of Classic Traveller, there is a rule that the maximum number of skills a character may posses is the combined total of intelligence and education, but it was not in the first three books. This rule is in Merchant Prince too. It was brought over to MegaTraveller. It is an errata element in a way. I am more in favor of capping the skill level possible.
Beside all this conjecture, book 1 does state that reenlistment beyond the 7th term is normally impossible, which provides a character of 46 years of age and unlikely to have any skill over 3. There is a chance of one maybe two mandatory terms, but those are not that likely. So, it is sort of a non-issue at character creation, and it only is one as time passes in game.
My players wanted an easier to use (by their estimation) advancement system than the one that is in Mongoose Traveller, and I provided them with the information below. I typically only awarded 1 to 3 points per session, and they were satisfied, and seldom took any skill over rank 4 (most sessions only garnered them 1 point, a few extraordinary sessions I felt that they had earned 3)
Improving Characteristics
Any characteristic may be raised by 1 point at a cost in Advancement Points of two times the current
characteristic value. In other words, if your character's Strength is 10 and you want it to be 11, it will cost you 20
Advancement points to raise it.
The maximum a Characteristic may be raised to is double its original value, or 17, whichever is lower. So if your original
Dexterity, for instance, was 4, the highest you may raise it is 8, but if your original Strength were 9, you may only raise it to 17.
YMMV
Skill Training
Learning a new skill at rank 0: 5 points. It takes a bit more effort for that initial training in something new than it typically does to improve it.
Improving a skill beyond rank 0
(And each rank must be bought individually, a skill must be raised from 0 to 1, and then from 1 to 2, etc.):
Rank 1: 4 points
Rank 2: 7 points
Rank 3: 10 points
Rank 4: 13 points
Rank 5: 16 points
Rank 6: 19 points
Quote from: jibbajibba;531930Yeah I haven't playedTraveller for 20 years so I am rusty. But this thread is reminding me of the Weeks I spent mapping out the Excalibur system and the fantastic fun that the Brotherhood (a team of Space Pirates ) had :)
I am thinking about how easy Bankes Culture fits into Traveller and I think its actually a really good mesh provided to tweak the tech.
I am going to work on some ideas I have for Thieves World with Traveller. Never got around to doing that all this time. Marc and Mary did all of that work for it too. Sure have had fun with Traveller over the years all right :)
Quote from: Spike;531940First, you pointed out that Traveller combat is similarly lethal to real life, thus if your player characters are, in fact, surviving 60 odd combats in six months then.... wow.
Second: I'd expect people with more practice than the average special forces team to have really high combat skill.
As I said, you are weighting the skill based on its perceived utility. Thats a philosophical choice. I'd suggest instead you find a practical way to reduce the random gunfights your traveller characters engage in... as they are more violent than your average D&D player! :)
like I said 20 -30 combats over a 6 month campaign.... that is about one combat per 4 hour session.... high but I don't think exceptional .... and it's not liek a D&D session where there may be 3 or 4 combats (or of course none) in one session :) I think you misread my post.
And no most characters do not survive that long but PCs are tricky little bastards and quickly learn that an ambush or laying down covering fire with an illegal heavy weapon tends to swing a lot of battles in their favour.
I was just giving a way to increase skills without doing so at such a rate that after a few weeks of adventuring the PCs haven't learnt more than they learnt in 20 years with the army....
just sayin....
Quote from: jibbajibba;531927But .... this is one of those things that isn;t really thought through.
If antiaging drugs were practiclaly available even if expensive then the Admirals and generals of the Imperium woudl be peopel that woudl ahve em by default. So the guy that gets 5 ranks in Navy but is 65 should actually have the stats of a 25 year old, a 25 year old who is enhanced with an improved lyphatic system, improved perception and reflexes, better strength and all that cyber-punk transhuman type stuff that we are starting to see on good old earth already at tech level 8/9 .
It just seems that a bunch of stuff was in the rules because tech developed in ways people didn't imagine but then the Spectre of GAME BALANCE comes in to replace real tech advancements. Aging drugs come in at tech level F and are socially stigmatised and enhance your life to 100 years, but you can grow clones at tech level C and imcrease its growth rate etc ... Basically its saying hold on if we give high rank/wealth/social status free antiaging then PCs will all be 200 and have loads of skills which breaks the game.
Now I love traveller but this just bugs me like the training rules and demi-human level limits in D&D. You limit an aspect of the game to make it the shape you want but in doing so you create what is for me an immersion break. I would much prefer to look at the rules you are trying to protect and come up with a more "realistic" way of limiting them.
But a minor point you can change the various technologies very easily in the game.
There's a strong bias in the Imperium against nobility using anagathics, and most of the Admiralty of the Imperial Navy are nobles, so it's not likely you'll see a lot of Admirals using them.
As for the rest, Traveller was written in the late 70s, and it's firmly grounded (see what I did there?) in classic
pre-cyberpunk science fiction. It's great for "old school" SF and "old school" game design, but if you want something with a more modern outlook, or a more state-of-the-art approach to game balance, there are lots of other RPG's out there.
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;531950There's a strong bias in the Imperium against nobility using anagathics, and most of the Admiralty of the Imperial Navy are nobles, so it's not likely you'll see a lot of Admirals using them.
As for the rest, Traveller was written in the late 70s, and it's firmly grounded (see what I did there?) in classic pre-cyberpunk science fiction. It's great for "old school" SF and "old school" game design, but if you want something with a more modern outlook, or a more state-of-the-art approach to game balance, there are lots of other RPG's out there.
There is a strong bias in the UK nobility against using coke and yet .....:)
but yout points on the design and where the game came from are sound.
Quote from: Kuroth;531944I don't think I have seen a player try to claim anti-age access during character creation, which is odd.
i've had only one person try it, and then only once. i'm away from my books, but IIRC it's quite a bother to do anagathics in character generation. i think you have to roll for availability each term, plus the cost may come out of your mustering out cash. it's not made to be easy to do, probably more for "balance" reasons.
the int+edu=total skill levels is a great rule. characters would hit that max, then end up reducing an unused or less used skill level to free up a "slot," so to speak. some skills were dropped to level-0, too. kept the familiarity with the skill, but no worries for attempting a task untrained.
Quote from: beeber;531971i've had only one person try it, and then only once. i'm away from my books, but IIRC it's quite a bother to do anagathics in character generation. i think you have to roll for availability each term, plus the cost may come out of your mustering out cash. it's not made to be easy to do, probably more for "balance" reasons.
the int+edu=total skill levels is a great rule. characters would hit that max, then end up reducing an unused or less used skill level to free up a "slot," so to speak. some skills were dropped to level-0, too. kept the familiarity with the skill, but no worries for attempting a task untrained.
I agree ed + int is a good cap but in most traveller games the PC is 40 ish with 5-6 skills and unless they are really dim the 14 ish average of Int + edu is a mile away
Quote from: Kuroth;531944In the Starter edition and the Traveller Book edition of Classic Traveller, there is a rule that the maximum number of skills a character may posses is the combined total of intelligence and education, but it was not in the first three books. This rule is in Merchant Prince too. It was brought over to MegaTraveller. It is an errata element in a way. I am more in favor of capping the skill level possible.
Wow, I missed this part completely. In the Traveller Book edition I have (the Spanish translation) this rule seems to be absent.
Quote from: jibbajibba;531979I agree ed + int is a good cap but in most traveller games the PC is 40 ish with 5-6 skills and unless they are really dim the 14 ish average of Int + edu is a mile away
in CT, true. MT (or CT with books 4+) would grant higher amounts of skills, generally one per year as opposed to one per term.
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;531950There's a strong bias in the Imperium against nobility using anagathics, and most of the Admiralty of the Imperial Navy are nobles, so it's not likely you'll see a lot of Admirals using them.
Since when? Can you site a source for this?
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;531950As for the rest, Traveller was written in the late 70s, and it's firmly grounded (see what I did there?) in classic pre-cyberpunk science fiction. It's great for "old school" SF and "old school" game design, but if you want something with a more modern outlook, or a more state-of-the-art approach to game balance, there are lots of other RPG's out there.
Wow, this totally ignores later versions of Traveller from about TNE onward which do deal with more modern outlooks and cyberpunk style technology.
Quote from: jibbajibba;531961but yout points on the design and where the game came from are sound.
Not by a long shot.
Quote from: jibbajibba;531949like I said 20 -30 combats over a 6 month campaign.... that is about one combat per 4 hour session.... high but I don't think exceptional .... and it's not liek a D&D session where there may be 3 or 4 combats (or of course none) in one session :) I think you misread my post.
And no most characters do not survive that long but PCs are tricky little bastards and quickly learn that an ambush or laying down covering fire with an illegal heavy weapon tends to swing a lot of battles in their favour.
I was just giving a way to increase skills without doing so at such a rate that after a few weeks of adventuring the PCs haven't learnt more than they learnt in 20 years with the army....
just sayin....
Well, in my experience (admittedly somewhat limited...) one combat per session is a LOT for Traveller, and in 3e D&D is probably about average... though 'downtime' sessions where you handle all the administrative bullshit accumulated during your dungeon crawl sessions would actually mean the average is slightly LESS than one per session.
I'll be honest: in the MegaT game I played back in the day (a dozen or so sessions) we never once got in a fight, and in the GURPS traveller session that imploded when one player got greedy and bitchy about salaries, there was only one combat, and that was because my character was a faaking mercenary, so the GM gave us a Mercenary job offer 'on the side' of our previously purely merchantile adventure... that was out of about five or six sessions.
Also: People who survive combats in real life generally are the sneaky and unfair people, which is why I mock anyone who complains about a lack of proportionality in armed conflicts. Truly proportional conflicts kill almost everyone involved, while one sided fights don't. Er... not relevant but amusing anyway.
My question of you, and really anyone who... er... complains?... that players get sneaky and tricky to survive dangerous fights (make easy games with hard combat systems, whatever...)... is why you let them turn EVERY fight into 'ambush went according to plans' and never have them find out their enemies are trying to do the same to them?
Quote from: Imperator;531705Could you elaborate on this when you have some spare minutes? :) I mean elaborate about ypur despise and the reasons to it, and that nugget you speak about.
Megatraveller came about when DGP offered to create and print the next version of
Traveller for GDW. There was little editorial oversite and the result is an edition filled with bugs and errata. Only T4 comes close to being such a bungled version of
Traveller.
My main headache comes from the gearhead sections - ships, vehicles, and equipment.
Megatraveller combined the design sequences and equipment lists from
Striker,
High Guard, Book 3
Worlds and Equipment, and Book 2
Starships along with every Ship's Locker article from
The Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society up to that point but did not bother to ensure that it was a seamless integration of systems. The Megatraveller system is very cumbersome to use and creates too much information for the designer to adequitely absorb at one sitting. Instead of making things simpler and easier to work with, it made it all overcomplicated and unwieldy.
My second headache comes from the metaplot that was dumped on to the OTU. I just do not see the Third Imperium disintegrating like it did in the books. The best alternative I have found to this is The Wounded Colossus article by Bill Cameron (http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/othroads/woco.html).
The combat system makes more sense for a wargame and I think is a poor fit to shoehorn in for a RPG, but it had to be forced in to be compatable with the design sequences. Which just continues the cumbersome rules chain reaction.
I just did not like this version of
Traveller as much as others.
Quote from: Imperator;532002Wow, I missed this part completely. In the Traveller Book edition I have (the Spanish translation) this rule seems to be absent.
Interesting. What does the cover of the Spanish edition you have look like?
Here is the exact rule from Merchant prince, the Starter Edition and The Traveller Book for your reference.
"Skill Limitations: No character should have more skills (or combined total levels of skills) than the sum of intelligence and education." Marc W. Miller & J. Andrew Keith
Merchant Prince 31 (GDW 1985).
“Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or a total of levels of skills) than the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted to a total of 13 combined skills and levels of skills. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills.” Marc W. Miller,
Traveller: Starter Edition 16-17 (GDW 1983).
“Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or a total of levels of skills) than the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted to a total of 13 combined skills and levels of skills. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills.” Marc W. Miller,
The Traveller Book 29 (GDW 1982).
Quote from: Kuroth;531944Expanding upon the perceived disconnect between technological development and technical levels, Traveller tech levels are not catch-all. A society may have higher tech levels in some areas, while lower in others.
The fork that created the Traveller timeline happened in the early '70s if I remember. The timeline we stayed on, for whatever reason, does not use mainframe technology in space.
Quote from: jeff37923;532027I just do not see the Third Imperium disintegrating like it did in the books. The best alternative I have found to this is The Wounded Colossus article by Bill Cameron (http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/othroads/woco.html).
I was kind of excited about the Shattered Imperium. But I didn't like the MegaTraveller rules all that much. When The New Era came out, I had lost any remaining interest in the Traveller rules and its current universe setting.
Quote from: jeff37923;532027The combat system makes more sense for a wargame
Which combat? Close combat on shipdeck maps? Or ship to ship combat, while in orbit? Or both?
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;532154Which combat? Close combat on shipdeck maps? Or ship to ship combat, while in orbit? Or both?
The one that was originally for
Azhanti High Lightning and then was expanded for
Striker. Which was then bastard-patched to cover everything not-space.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;532152The fork that created the Traveller timeline happened in the early '70s if I remember. The timeline we stayed on, for whatever reason, does not use mainframe technology in space.
Quote from: Kuroth;531916The other thing that is often mentioned as dated are the computer rules for starships, but I have always felt that the majority of the effort needed to achieve jump drive and the high energy aspects of starships were provided by incredibly advanced computers with applications far beyond such a term could be used in our understanding today. So, the operations a computer must perform are called simply programs, but it is just a term used as a placeholder for some future incredible synthesis of engineering and science, which is why computers require so much power and why computers and programs in computers require so much space.
The computer rules provided in Marc's three books are specific to the needs of Starship jump drives and high energy fiction like what seem impossible energy beams. Regular vehicles and computer driven devices that do not require those aspects didn't require those types of computers designed for incredible feats of science fiction.
One can play Traveller as an anachronistic interpretation of the future too, though. I'm not a purist at all on it. For example, I never used the Third Imperium as a setting often. I also see the psionics rules as a set of magic rules. I usually add Pyrokinesis and Awreneness Other to the talents.
Quote from: jeff37923;532156The one that was originally for Azhanti High Lightning and then was expanded for Striker. Which was then bastard-patched to cover everything not-space.
I bought Striker when it came out, not nowing anything about mini gaming. I never touched the game. That's when I feared I might have become a game collector more than an actual game player. I did like Azhanti High Lightning combat better than Snapshot combat. Soon after, I would start to lose interest in square grid maps though. I was battling in death arenas that used hexagon grid maps. And I have not gone back to squares since. Since Traveller uses hexagons for planet maps, I make all my maps for Traveller hexagon. Just change their scale.
Quote from: Kuroth;532160The computer rules provided in Marc's three books are specific to the needs of Starship jump drives and high energy fiction like what seem impossible energy beams. Regular vehicles and computer driven devices that do not require those aspects didn't require those types of computers designed for incredible feats of science fiction.
Yes. 10 years ago when I looked at my old copies of Traveller and saw the mainframes, I thought how dated it was. But now I look at them and think how maintenance-free those ship computers really are. Just plug in a program module and go. The computers come with the ship when it's built. And the 200+ year-old software still does the job needed without worries.
Quote from: Kuroth;532161One can play Traveller as an anachronistic interpretation of the future too, though. I'm not a purist at all on it. For example, I never used the Third Imperium as a setting often. I also see the psionics rules as a set of magic rules. I usually add Pyrokinesis and Awreneness Other to the talents.
I'm 50/50 when it comes to gaming in Traveller's universe or doing my own universe. It makes no difference to me. Both are fun. I like making my own subsector maps. I used to have FORTRAN 77 for making them.
Quote from: jeff37923;532018Since when? Can you site a source for this?
Short answer: Not without a lot of research in books I don't have any more.
Long answer: from memory...
The bias against nobility using anagathics was mentioned but never fully explained, to my knowledge. I think it had to do with the fact that their titles were inherited, and eventually had to be passed on; for someone appointed to a lifelong fiefdom over one or more Imperial worlds, life-extension amounted to a rather crass "power grab" from the next generation. I don't recall where this was mentioned; it might have been in GURPS Traveller's Nobility sourcebook. (?) OTOH, are there additional negative modifiers for nobility using anagathics during chargen? I think at least one edition of Traveller had that detail.
Quote from: jeff37923;532018Wow, this totally ignores later versions of Traveller from about TNE onward which do deal with more modern outlooks and cyberpunk style technology.
IIRC, there were some rules for cybernetics in Fire Fusion and Steel for TNE, but they seemed like an afterthought; the cybernetics in T20 looked even worse, IMHO. The statistics were presented, but there was no discussion about how to fit them into the Traveller universe, as far as I know. You were on your own with that. I would have enjoyed seeing a thorough discussion of cybernetics in the Third Imperium; did anyone ever do this?
I don't have my Traveller books any longer -- I divested after hearing the "my Traveller's better than your Traveller" rant one time too many from reactionaries who couldn't deal with anything changing in the OTU. Personally I welcomed the "more modern outlook" of TNE; it incorporated ideas from SF novels written
after 1980, and touched on themes from the "new space opera" which was in fact
very new in 1993! But the Traveller community reacted to it with sheer irrational hatred, and some of them still do. ("Why TNE sucks" posts will begin in 3, 2, 1... you rang the bell, now they're salivating like Pavolv's dog. Haters gonna hate.)
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;532170Short answer: Not without a lot of research in books I don't have any more.
Long answer: from memory...
The bias against nobility using anagathics was mentioned but never fully explained, to my knowledge. I think it had to do with the fact that their titles were inherited, and eventually had to be passed on; for someone appointed to a lifelong fiefdom over one or more Imperial worlds, life-extension amounted to a rather crass "power grab" from the next generation. I don't recall where this was mentioned; it might have been in GURPS Traveller's Nobility sourcebook. (?) OTOH, are there additional negative modifiers for nobility using anagathics during chargen? I think at least one edition of Traveller had that detail.
I don't have
GURPS: Traveller Nobility myself and it might be in there, but that is an ATU.
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;532170IIRC, there were some rules for cybernetics in Fire Fusion and Steel for TNE, but they seemed like an afterthought; the cybernetics in T20 looked even worse, IMHO. The statistics were presented, but there was no discussion about how to fit them into the Traveller universe, as far as I know. You were on your own with that. I would have enjoyed seeing a thorough discussion of cybernetics in the Third Imperium; did anyone ever do this?
Cybernetics are in TNE, T4, T20, and
Mongoose Traveller and
GURPS: Traveller as well as a discussion as to why cybernetics are not prevalent in the Third Imperium.
Mongoose Traveller has got the best set of cybernetic rules for
Traveller and are backwards compatible with
Classic Traveller.
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;532170I don't have my Traveller books any longer -- I divested after hearing the "my Traveller's better than your Traveller" rant one time too many from reactionaries who couldn't deal with anything changing in the OTU. Personally I welcomed the "more modern outlook" of TNE; it incorporated ideas from SF novels written after 1980, and touched on themes from the "new space opera" which was in fact very new in 1993! But the Traveller community reacted to it with sheer irrational hatred, and some of them still do. ("Why TNE sucks" posts will begin in 3, 2, 1... you rang the bell, now they're salivating like Pavolv's dog. Haters gonna hate.)
You are missing out on a lot of good stuff then due to your reaction to some grognards screeching. Especially with
Mongoose Traveller, which is a treasure.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;532166I'm 50/50 when it comes to gaming in Traveller's universe or doing my own universe. It makes no difference to me. Both are fun. I like making my own subsector maps. I used to have FORTRAN 77 for making them.
Ya, it’s cool to make one’s own setting. It is just one of the fun aspects of the game. I haven’t used the Third Imperium often, but it was fun too. I just would rather use something different to make it interesting for the players and myself. One thing about not using the Imperium it avoids how the setting is fragmented by fans. I find it cool that you took the time to write up some in Fortran for it back in the day. Now we can talk about how the most recent Fortran version is just as valid and useful today as ever too. I suppose that would be a major derail, though. ha
Quote from: jeff37923;532175You are missing out on a lot of good stuff then due to your reaction to some grognards screeching. Especially with Mongoose Traveller, which is a treasure.
I do find Marc's three books of Traveller to be one of my all time favorites, but Mongoose's interpretation is very good. My advice is that where one doesn't use just Marc's three books, then use Mongoose's edition or the Mongoose Traveller house rules incorporated into their 2000 AD setting books. I prefer Marc's three books, but Mongoose's house rules are very good second choice.
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;532170I don't have my Traveller books any longer -- I divested after hearing the "my Traveller's better than your Traveller" rant one time too many from reactionaries who couldn't deal with anything changing in the OTU. Personally I welcomed the "more modern outlook" of TNE; it incorporated ideas from SF novels written after 1980, and touched on themes from the "new space opera" which was in fact very new in 1993! But the Traveller community reacted to it with sheer irrational hatred, and some of them still do. ("Why TNE sucks" posts will begin in 3, 2, 1... you rang the bell, now they're salivating like Pavolv's dog. Haters gonna hate.)
Just visit the CotI RPG forums and read through some of them. Control freaks, a lot of them.
Quote from: jeff37923;532175I don't have GURPS: Traveller Nobility myself and it might be in there, but that is an ATU.
Only if you're playing in 1120 or later. I stay in the 1107 - 1115. I just like reliving those years. The good old days.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;532181Just visit the CotI RPG forums and read through some of them. Control freaks, a lot of them.
I can't deny that, but there are some good eggs in there as well.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;532182Only if you're playing in 1120 or later. I stay in the 1107 - 1115. I just like reliving those years. The good old days.
Oh, there are a lot of interesting periods to play in if you use the OTU history. Tons of stuff to mine for adventures and campaigns.
Quote from: Imperator;531662....I'd like to ask if someone experienced in this game can explain to me how is experience earned so I can tell my crew to shut the fuck up already.
Did you sort of get an answer through the serpentine path of this thread Imperator? Do you have any specific questions about how it is described in the Experience section of the edition of Classic Traveller you are using?
Quote from: Kuroth;532149"Skill Limitations: No character should have more skills (or combined total levels of skills) than the sum of intelligence and education." Marc W. Miller & J. Andrew Keith Merchant Prince 31 (GDW 1985).
"Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or a total of levels of skills) than the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted to a total of 13 combined skills and levels of skills. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills." Marc W. Miller, Traveller: Starter Edition 16-17 (GDW 1983).
"Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or a total of levels of skills) than the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted to a total of 13 combined skills and levels of skills. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills." Marc W. Miller, The Traveller Book 29 (GDW 1982).
neat to see the other, pre-MT sources for that rule. we didn't have any of those, just the LBBs (and not merchant prince, either). ergo we didn't start using the int+edu rule until megatraveller came out.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;532182Only if you're playing in 1120 or later. I stay in the 1107 - 1115. I just like reliving those years. The good old days.
that's my 3I sweet spot, as well.
all this classic trav talk is great! i'm going to bust out my LBBs this weekend and roll up some subsectors.
All this talk about Traveller got me looking at SPI Universe again. http://members.iinet.net.au/~avalon11/Universe/Universe/Universe%20Downloads/Universe%20PLUS/Universe%20PLUS%2024JUN02.pdf
Especially the world generation section on page 72.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;532241All this talk about Traveller got me looking at SPI Universe again. http://members.iinet.net.au/~avalon11/Universe/Universe/Universe%20Downloads/Universe%20PLUS/Universe%20PLUS%2024JUN02.pdf
Especially the world generation section on page 72.
The Astogrator's Handbook is a good one to use for games in general, as well as Traveller, that is available there too. It's a pity SPI had such bad luck with Dragonquest and Universe.
Quote from: Kuroth;532149Interesting. What does the cover of the Spanish edition you have look like?
It is a black cover with a white drawing of an ship and the "Mayday mayday this is the independet ship Beowulf..." speech written all over.
It is the one you pointed put earlier :)
QuoteHere is the exact rule from Merchant prince, the Starter Edition and The Traveller Book for your reference.
"Skill Limitations: No character should have more skills (or combined total levels of skills) than the sum of intelligence and education." Marc W. Miller & J. Andrew Keith Merchant Prince 31 (GDW 1985).
"Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or a total of levels of skills) than the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted to a total of 13 combined skills and levels of skills. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills." Marc W. Miller, Traveller: Starter Edition 16-17 (GDW 1983).
"Maximum Skills: As a general rule of thumb, a character may have no more skills (or a total of levels of skills) than the sum of his or her intelligence and education. For example, a character with UPP 77894A would be restricted to a total of 13 combined skills and levels of skills. This restriction does not apply to level-0 skills." Marc W. Miller, The Traveller Book 29 (GDW 1982).
Awesome. This rule is officially in effect in my games now :D
Quote from: jeff37923;532175Especially with Mongoose Traveller, which is a treasure.
So, Jeff, should I get some Mongoose Traveller PDF? Is there some you would specially recommend?
Quote from: Kuroth;532179I do find Marc's three books of Traveller to be one of my all time favorites, but Mongoose's interpretation is very good. My advice is that where one doesn't use just Marc's three books, then use Mongoose's edition or the Mongoose Traveller house rules incorporated into their 2000 AD setting books. I prefer Marc's three books, but Mongoose's house rules are very good second choice.
Hell, I must get them, it seems.
Quote from: Kuroth;532204Did you sort of get an answer through the serpentine path of this thread Imperator? Do you have any specific questions about how it is described in the Experience section of the edition of Classic Traveller you are using?
I got many useful answers and I have more or less made my mind about the issue.
Yesterday we went through the chargen process. We used books 0-3, and we added some background and races from Mass Effect (2 of my players are playing alien races from the game). For most of them (maybe all of them) it was the first time they used such a random system, with so little control over their PCs skills.
The reaction I got was MOAR TRAVELLER PLIZ.
They were über-happy with the chargen system and they're absolutely psyched about the game, so everything's good. At the end we got several PCs, some of then discharged after their first service period, an the most veteran of them with 4 periods and a Explorer ship. And they loved it.
In the next thread I will discuss my ideas for the campaign. Because seriously, fuck the K'kreee
Quote from: Imperator;532349So, Jeff, should I get some Mongoose Traveller PDF? Is there some you would specially recommend?
Start out small, download the SRD for the Core Rulebook, High Guard, and Mercenary. All of this is in the Traveller Developer's Pack free download that is near the bottom of the page at this link. (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpgs/traveller/core-rulebooks-accessories/traveller-core-rulebook.html) That will give you enough of a taste to see if you would like to incorporate the stuff into your game. The SRDs are Word documents, not PDFs. If you cannot access them, let me know and I will make PDFs for you.
Quote from: Imperator;532349In the next thread I will discuss my ideas for the campaign. Because seriously, fuck the K'kreee
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/578273_3845650508365_1491218642_33420301_1585866420_n.jpg)
great pic--loved bryan gibson's traveller art :)
Quote from: beeber;532357great pic--loved bryan gibson's traveller art :)
Bryan's a good guy and a great artist. :)
his work in the T4 books is certainly a highlight for that edition!
Quote from: beeber;532362his work in the T4 books is certainly a highlight for that edition!
And he got so screwed over in that deal. Imperium Games was run by the same sleazy shithead who created the first D&D Movie. None of the artists or writers or Marc Miller got paid for their work on T4, so it has been in litigation for years to ensure that the aggrieved parties got their money for their work and intellectual property.
oh man, that sucks! does bryan sell prints? i'd love to support his work, somehow.
Quote from: beeber;532367oh man, that sucks! does bryan sell prints? i'd love to support his work, somehow.
He does, and he works on commission. I will ask him if he wants to advertise here and get back to you with his answer.
Quote from: Kuroth;532277The Astogrator's Handbook is a good one to use for games in general, as well as Traveller, that is available there too. It's a pity SPI had such bad luck with Dragonquest and Universe.
They got hit hard during the recession. The result of the recession knocked off a lot of computer makers, leaving primarily IBM and Apple as the main two. It also knocked off a lot of RPG companies. Some (thought to be lost forever) games would be resurrected in later years by other game companies. I guess SPI's Universe fell through the cracks and is now public domain. SourceForge has another printing of the game.
You mentioned that you have some interest in some of the MegaTraveller content you have about Imperator to use with your Traveller game. In an effort save you the trouble of looking about, here is the consolidated errata for MegaTraveller.
CONSOLIDATED MEGATRAVELLER ERRATA, v2.20 (09/01/11) (http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/ConsolidatedMegaTravellerErrata.pdf)
What is the binding of that Spanish edition like? That is one of the few Traveller items I don't own.
Quote from: Kuroth;532449You mentioned that you have some interest in some of the MegaTraveller content you have about Imperator to use with your Traveller game. In an effort save you the trouble of looking about, here is the consolidated errata for MegaTraveller.
CONSOLIDATED MEGATRAVELLER ERRATA, v2.20 (09/01/11) (http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/ConsolidatedMegaTravellerErrata.pdf)
What is the binding of that Spanish edition like? That is one of the few Traveller items I don't own.
What I have here is a shitty hardcover. Actually, I got a PDF version and printed it out, because the binding is destroyed.
Quote from: Imperator;531939I hadn't thought of that.
Well, you can always justify it saying that is insanely expensive just because and leave it at that. When I say insane I mean INSANE, like in building-a-big-ship expensive.
That or the body rejuvenation (and/or prothesis) is not perfect and even though people live old they have a hard time running a 100 meters sprint because these freaking teflon kneecaps are all they could afford.
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;531950As for the rest, Traveller was written in the late 70s, and it's firmly grounded (see what I did there?) in classic pre-cyberpunk science fiction. It's great for "old school" SF and "old school" game design, but if you want something with a more modern outlook, or a more state-of-the-art approach to game balance, there are lots of other RPG's out there.
I am curious what you deem "new school" SF, as opposed to "old school".
I have been reading SF since the mid 60's and there are few differences between then and now that I have noticed. Like a better appreciation for virtual reality and the magical mystery goo of nanites.
Quote from: BillDowns;535283I am curious what you deem "new school" SF, as opposed to "old school".
I have been reading SF since the mid 60's and there are few differences between then and now that I have noticed. Like a better appreciation for virtual reality and the magical mystery goo of nanites.
Here. (http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/4824909) For starters.
Thanks for the link.
So according to that article's definitions, James Blish was "new school" when he started writing about moral dilemmas back in the late '50's?
Sorry, I think that's a solution in search of a problem.....
Quote from: BillDowns;535283I am curious what you deem "new school" SF, as opposed to "old school".
I have been reading SF since the mid 60's and there are few differences between then and now that I have noticed. Like a better appreciation for virtual reality and the magical mystery goo of nanites.
I am still learning about the game (if fact still reading the classic 1-3 books). But what I've gotten so far is the game is very inclusive, you could add modern themes easily imo.
Quote from: Marleycat;535636I am still learning about the game (if fact still reading the classic 1-3 books). But what I've gotten so far is the game is very inclusive, you could add modern themes easily imo.
It's refreshing, really, to hear that Traveller is still attracting new players who are interested in incorporating more up-to-date material into it. I went that route a number of times, in various iterations of Traveller. It went alright with new players who weren't emotionally invested in the "classic" Traveller universe, but with "old school" players it was always a problem. They don't deal with change very well.
But... that's not right... it isn't canon... you can't do that in Traveller! ...etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
It was beyond tiresome. My advice; if you decide to run a non-standard Traveller campaign, find some new Traveller players who aren't completely hung up on what's considered "canon" and what isn't.
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;535665It's refreshing, really, to hear that Traveller is still attracting new players who are interested in incorporating more up-to-date material into it. I went that route a number of times, in various iterations of Traveller. It went alright with new players who weren't emotionally invested in the "classic" Traveller universe, but with "old school" players it was always a problem. They don't deal with change very well.
But... that's not right... it isn't canon... you can't do that in Traveller! ...etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
It was beyond tiresome. My advice; if you decide to run a non-standard Traveller campaign, find some new Traveller players who aren't completely hung up on what's considered "canon" and what isn't.
Meh, it's just like Lot5R fuck the canon monkeys. Say this is the deal, you disagree? Leave. Simple. :)
When I get done reading the books I plan to run Traveller in a Serenity Universe. Fuck all of you if you say it's wrong.
Then again I am a bit of bitch when I run a game. I steadfastly stand by my vision of whatever campaign I plan to run but I'm not unreasonable. Though I do have to get that fan made courtesean class to make it work right. :)
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;535665But... that's not right... it isn't canon... you can't do that in Traveller! ...etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
It was beyond tiresome. My advice; if you decide to run a non-standard Traveller campaign, find some new Traveller players who aren't completely hung up on what's considered "canon" and what isn't.
If a player can't say a sentence without the word canon in it, they're not even invited to a game. Also, they're not very good social RPG players either.
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;535665It's refreshing, really, to hear that Traveller is still attracting new players who are interested in incorporating more up-to-date material into it. I went that route a number of times, in various iterations of Traveller. It went alright with new players who weren't emotionally invested in the "classic" Traveller universe, but with "old school" players it was always a problem. They don't deal with change very well.
But... that's not right... it isn't canon... you can't do that in Traveller! ...etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
It was beyond tiresome. My advice; if you decide to run a non-standard Traveller campaign, find some new Traveller players who aren't completely hung up on what's considered "canon" and what isn't.
The simpler solution is to just tell the canonista to go fuck themselves.
Just like you would in any other game that has been around for decades or has a lot of background.
Quote from: Marleycat;535668Meh, it's just like Lot5R fuck the canon monkeys. Say this is the deal, you disagree? Leave. Simple. :)
When I get done reading the books I plan to run Traveller in a Serenity Universe. Fuck all of you if you say it's wrong.
L5R canon is worse since it was developed in a fucking entirely different type of Game, the collectable card sets. At least in Traveller there is a tiny handful of books, most of them written decades ago, that more or less describe 'canon', which then remains more or less fixed.
Also: Every gamer I've ever spoken with agrees that Serenity/Firefly feels like Traveller for TV. Given the absolute MASTERY of Astrophysics demonstrated in the Serenity RPG, I wholly endorse adapting it to a setting where the show elements can be made to fit (lots and lots of worlds, often 'far from civilization' works better in traveller with weeks of travel time (and that 'punch it' drive does work as a Jump Drive better than... whatever its supposed to be. Rather then cram the entire 'verse into a single wonky-impossible solar system (triple solar system thing? How'd that map look again? THree suns, but each had their own orbiting planets, all intersecting? Man, I am a chump with physics (give me chemestry any day), and I know that doesn't work.)
And hey: They still use guns and lasers are rare military equipment, so you don't have to adapt the gear either. Also: There are core worlds and not-so core worlds... which T also has....
Now you just gotta learn chinese and yer set.
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/387643_2996282234689_1491218642_33094304_1227928696_n.jpg)
'Nuff Said.
yeah, yeah, yeah... I know, a picture is worth a thousand words. I like words, sue me. :)
Quote from: Spike;535788yeah, yeah, yeah... I know, a picture is worth a thousand words. I like words, sue me. :)
Just steal the picture already. :)
Quote from: jeff37923;535790Just steal the picture already. :)
If I did that I wouldn't be able to do a long and rambling post detailing in agonizing detail just how Traveller maps to Serenity/Firefly.
You wouldn't want to deny me that simple pleasure, would you?
Quote from: Spike;535793If I did that I wouldn't be able to do a long and rambling post detailing in agonizing detail just how Traveller maps to Serenity/Firefly.
You wouldn't want to deny me that simple pleasure, would you?
You could still do that, but add the picture at the end to give the reader an extra reward! :)
After our first session last Friday, lots of good sensations. We loved the game.
Also, I love not giving out XP and not having to bother about them. Life is beautifully simple in Traveller.
Quote from: Imperator;535807After our first session last Friday, lots of good sensations. We loved the game.
Also, I love not giving out XP and not having to bother about them. Life is beautifully simple in Traveller.
how are you doing experience, if at all?
Quote from: Imperator;535807After our first session last Friday, lots of good sensations. We loved the game.
Also, I love not giving out XP and not having to bother about them. Life is beautifully simple in Traveller.
Awesome to read that the campaign is going so well Imperator! It's also good to know that the setting mix you planned is developing well too.
Quote from: beeber;535812how are you doing experience, if at all?
I plan on doing it by the books: you want an increase in your scores, you embark in a 4 year development plan, and then you get to raise your skilss as per the book.
I'm open to the possibility of PCs embarking in other, more intensive training programs that may help them get the level 1 in a skill faster. However, to go beyond level 1 I would apply the usual rules. We'll see how it works.
Quote from: Kuroth;535905Awesome to read that the campaign is going so well Imperator! It's also good to know that the setting mix you planned is developing well too.
Well, the mix hasn't played a big role yet as they're in Imperial territory and haven't crossed yet to the Alliance space. But the players are happy because they got to play the aliens they wanted, so it's OK :)
Awesome news, good to hear!