Quote from: Voros;999213Man you're a borderline mental case.

Do you think I was gaming with grognards in the 80s? Course not, nothing of what I said has to do with Gronan you manchild.

Here's what you said:
Yeah but my point is that Paladin weren't rare at any of the tables I saw.
So many people were obviously not using 3d6 in order, claims to the contrary since notwithstanding.

So you're saying you encountered those same people you used to game with at some later date and they are all claiming they rolled 3d6 in order back then?  

You weren't suggesting all the internet grogs you love so much that say they use 3d6 in order are lying based on what you saw whenever back in the day?

Ok, good to know.

Quote from: Dumarest;999079Ah, but does it come with two to six players interested in playing?

Just show your friends the Kickstarter video, then you will have players.

Quote from: Certified;999246Just show your friends the Kickstarter video, then you will have players.

Spirit of '77 looks like it would be hella fun to play every once in a while in between stretches of normal campaigning.

Quote from: Voros;999133Yeah but my point is that Paladin weren't rare at any of the tables I saw. So many people were obviously not using 3d6 in order, claims to the contrary since notwithstanding.

In this and your prior posts you seem to be saying 3 things.

   Statement 1. Paladins weren't rare at tables you saw back in the 1980s.
Statement 2. Therefore people back then at tables you saw were not rolling 3d6 in order.
Statement 3. Therefore people today (whose tables you didn't and haven't seen) must not have been rolling 3d6 in order back then.

Statement 2 follows (more or less) from statement 1.
Statement 3 is a nonsequitur. It does not in any way follow from statements 1 + 2.

You can do 3d6 in order a number of times until you get the results you want.  If every one plays three characters and you run a high mortality first level funnel, stuff like Paladins will become more common.

If someone at my table really wanted to play a paladin that bad, I'd probably just let them have the minimum stats required if they agreed to actually roleplay his belief system. Playing a paladin and sticking to your god's rules and adhering to your alignment shouldn't be easy. I don't really care if you rolled well enough if your heart is set on the challenge. Maybe I'll give you an albatross of some kind to make up for the extra points.

Quote from: David Johansen;999282You can do 3d6 in order a number of times until you get the results you want.

Sure and I can write a computer program or set up an Excel spreadsheet to do the rolling for me but none of those solutions fit the spirit or aesthetic of "roll 3d6 in order."

Quote from: Bren;999281In this and your prior posts you seem to be saying 3 things.

   Statement 1. Paladins weren't rare at tables you saw back in the 1980s.
Statement 2. Therefore people back then at tables you saw were not rolling 3d6 in order.
Statement 3. Therefore people today (whose tables you didn't and haven't seen) must not have been rolling 3d6 in order back then.

Statement 2 follows (more or less) from statement 1.
Statement 3 is a nonsequitur. It does not in any way follow from statements 1 + 2.

I'm not the only one who caught that, I see.  It's Voros just doing his "grognards, old school, Gygax, etc are bullshit" schtick.

I do recall a player turning up to our group in the 80s with a character that had 18, 18, 18, 17, 18, 18 stats which he claimed he had rolled.

We killed him off, naturally. :rolleyes:

(The character not the player).

Quote from: CRKrueger;999315I'm not the only one who caught that, I see.  It's Voros just doing his "grognards, old school, Gygax, etc are bullshit" schtick.

I don't even understand why this is an issue for people.

I'm almost contemporaneous with Gronan and I'm fine with people rolling up characters however the fuck they want. 3d6 worked fine in OD&D and it's what I and my friends all used circa 1974-5. But that became unpopular (in my experience) once Greyhawk introduced stat bonuses. After Greyhawk most people used some alternate method for rolling characters to increase the likelihood that a PC would have one or more stats with a positive modifier. Also the growing proliferation of new character classes with stat minimums had a double effect. People wanted to run some of those classes and they needed to satisfy the stat minium. So various alternate methods for rolling up characters tended to proliferate. Rolling stats then assigning as and where the player preferred, 4d6 choose best 3 rolled in order, and some minimum stat total were the methods I recall being most often used.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;999317I do recall a player turning up to our group in the 80s with a character that had 18, 18, 18, 17, 18, 18 stats which he claimed he had rolled.

It's a little known fact that the Cray supercomputers were invented just so that D&D players had sufficient computing power to quickly randomly generate enough characters so they could get the extremely unlikely high stats they wanted.

This is a real example of fake news or what I like to call a faux fact.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;998234Monks appeared because the Kung Fu TV show was in reruns, Brian Blume liked the Destroyer books, and Jim Ward thought the song "Kung Fu Fighting" was funny.

It had fuckdiddlydoodahday to do with "world building" or "history."

Always suspected it, but that still doesn't answer what abilities you'd give to the Cisterians;).

Quote from: Dumarest;999079Ah, but does it come with two to six players interested in playing?

No, just like OD&D didn't come with extra imagination for the Referee. What's your point here, really?

I think I should add that Spirit of the 77 to my wishlist, but frankly, I'd probably ditch it and play Feng Shui instead.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;999317I do recall a player turning up to our group in the 80s with a character that had 18, 18, 18, 17, 18, 18 stats which he claimed he had rolled.

We killed him off, naturally. :rolleyes:

(The character not the player).

Good thing you specified which one, I guess:D!

Quote from: Dumarest;999283If someone at my table really wanted to play a paladin that bad, I'd probably just let them have the minimum stats required if they agreed to actually roleplay his belief system. Playing a paladin and sticking to your god's rules and adhering to your alignment shouldn't be easy. I don't really care if you rolled well enough if your heart is set on the challenge. Maybe I'll give you an albatross of some kind to make up for the extra points.

Yeah.  Or maybe I'd dream up some kind of quest you needed to fulfill to become a Paladin, because happening in play is always better.

I've just always really been lucky, I guess, to have players who were good with "the whole point of character creation is to see what we end up with."

Quote from: AsenRG;999329Always suspected it, but that still doesn't answer what abilities you'd give to the Cisterians;).

Now I want to be a silent Trappist monk with drunken boxing style.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;999317I do recall a player turning up to our group in the 80s with a character that had 18, 18, 18, 17, 18, 18 stats which he claimed he had rolled.

We killed him off, naturally. :rolleyes:

(The character not the player).

Wow, punishing him for a series of lucky rolls that, of course, the whole group witnessed!