Are classes and levels necessary for a D&D "feel" game?

Is there another way to handle their strong archetype and focused power gain which would work for a D&D style "inspired" game?

I'm not a big fan of classes myself or levels. I prefer custom built characters not only built with the rules but built to fit an individual campaign. Hence why High Valor is completely free of that--sure people get professions, which they can call upon for doing that professions tasks, but it isn't any better or worse than any other trait the PC picks to utilize for rolls (so long as thematically they fit the roll the character is attempting?)

Quote from: Silverlion;526059Are classes and levels necessary for a D&D "feel" game?

Yes. Without classes and levels, it's not D&D (to me).

D&D without classes and levels would probably feel more like Runequest.

Quote from: Benoist;526060Yes. Without classes and levels, it's not D&D (to me).

Exactly!

Quote from: Silverlion;526059Are classes and levels necessary for a D&D "feel" game?

Classes and Levels are so integral to D&D, that the original draft of OD&D by Gygax was called "Classes & Levels".

Quote from: Rum Cove;526069Classes and Levels are so integral to D&D, that the original draft of OD&D by Gygax was called "Classes & Levels".

+1  

While you could probably make a D&D-ish game without classes and levels, they really are integral to the concept of what D&D is and what it does.  D&D may not have the best implementation of classes and levels, but classes and levels are certainly the best implementation of D&D.

Quote from: Silverlion;526059Are classes and levels necessary for a D&D "feel" game?

They definitely are required for a game to feel like D&D to me.

Me too.

Have to go with the crowd.

You could however make a game where a player can either choose to have a class & level, or not.
e.g. Rolemaster had "No Profession" characters; Synnibarr had "Non Classed Adventurers" who used points instead of getting set class features; I had a go at building a game awhile back where characters could take a "class" by buying a sets of skills of the same level as a bundle with a cost discount, or just buy skills individually.

I don't like them, but I think they are the prominent frame around the experience... at least the first that comes to mind for me.
The rest of the stuff, the bits I like about D&D, I can pretty much pull off with other (non-C&L) systems.
The Classic Fantasy books for BRP seem to have garnered a good bit of popularity for capturing that residual flavor.

Quote from: Silverlion;526059Are classes and levels necessary for a D&D "feel" game?

Yes.  No question.

(And I'd even say that grafting on some sort of skill system starts making it feel less like D&D, to me.)

Yes.  No classes and no levels = no D&D.

Quote from: B.T.;526099No classes and no levels = no D&D.

No classes and no levels = no D&D = a really crappy version of Runequest using a d20 (instead of d100).

:banghead:

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;526090I had a go at building a game awhile back where characters could take a "class" by buying a sets of skills of the same level as a bundle with a cost discount, or just buy skills individually.

That is the same idea I had when pondering game design.  Getting the costs, or specifically the discounts, so it wasn't punishing to choose one option over the other is a bit of a sticky wicket.

Quote from: StormBringer;526121That is the same idea I had when pondering game design.  Getting the costs, or specifically the discounts, so it wasn't punishing to choose one option over the other is a bit of a sticky wicket.

Yeah true...

With the system I was doing I had a number of disadvantages characters could choose, any of which gave a 50% cost discount. So a classed PC and a Non Classed Adventurer (NCA) could in practice have the same amount of skill ranks, except the NCAs would have various other problems with their skills instead. (they hadn't been apprenticed/belonged to a guild that would give them proper training, so they would have problems like combat skills being limited to only a few weapons, spell misfires from dodgy magic training, randomly-determined skills, etc.).
The classed characters technically had the [Linked] disadvantage on their skills, meaning they just had the problem that all their skills had to be raised at the same time.