Quote from: RabidWookie on September 08, 2023, 06:13:16 PM
Did you have issues with original edition ACKS combat?

I absolutely HATE the way attacks work...a simple bonus-to-hit would have sufficed. I realize the intent is to make it allegedly easier to run, but yeah not for me.

Honestly, I think Castles and Crusades has the easiest to understand combat system for monsters. Add HD to d20 roll, compare to AC. Super simple and takes milliseconds to comprehend.

Quote from: moonsweeper on September 09, 2023, 06:24:34 AM

Quote from: PulpHerb on September 09, 2023, 12:40:26 AM

Quote from: Brad on September 08, 2023, 06:03:24 PM

Quote from: RabidWookie on September 08, 2023, 04:52:58 PM
I think Adventurer Conqueror King II could take the crown. It looks like a true evolution and refinement of the Rules Cyclopedia.

If ACKII actually uses a coherent combat system, then I am all for it.

Given ACKS is already my goto version of D&D I really wish he'd get it out already.

Alex is working on it.

I'm using ACKS II updates in my current campaign but PCs are only Adventurer tier so I haven't introduced any of the updated domain stuff yet.
My players seem to like it so far.

I think I'm 90% of the way there using the exploding 20s, heroic healing, the thief synergy (his recent YT video on thieves seems to indicate he did go that direction), and a handful of other things.

The biggest I'm waiting for is the updated class design rules. I know the trade-offs for weapon and armor usage are changing quite a bit and that will affect some campaign specific classes I have (plus some for the Player's Companion).

Quote from: Timothe on September 09, 2023, 09:26:30 AM

Quote from: Theory of Games on September 03, 2023, 07:28:19 AM

Quote from: Jam The MF on September 02, 2023, 03:22:58 PM
OSE has had the most forward momentum, for a while now.

What are you using to determine what the "top rpg" is?

Based on DTRPG sales, Worlds Without Number (Adamantine seller) is eating everyone's lunch, including OSE (Mithral at best).

Best Seller but is anyone actually playing it? Same question with OSE.

Not playing WwN, not because I don't like it but because I said upthread ACKs is my fantasy go to. I do use the excellent systems for generating content from it though.

Quote from: Brad on September 09, 2023, 09:35:11 AM

Quote from: RabidWookie on September 08, 2023, 06:13:16 PM
Did you have issues with original edition ACKS combat?

I absolutely HATE the way attacks work...a simple bonus-to-hit would have sufficed. I realize the intent is to make it allegedly easier to run, but yeah not for me.

Honestly, I think Castles and Crusades has the easiest to understand combat system for monsters. Add HD to d20 roll, compare to AC. Super simple and takes milliseconds to comprehend.

Yep; that was among the many reasons we've finally shifted over to C&C full-time.  Super easy and fast to run; tons of options, old school vibe.

Quote from: Brad on September 09, 2023, 09:35:11 AM

Quote from: RabidWookie on September 08, 2023, 06:13:16 PM
Did you have issues with original edition ACKS combat?

I absolutely HATE the way attacks work...a simple bonus-to-hit would have sufficed. I realize the intent is to make it allegedly easier to run, but yeah not for me.

Honestly, I think Castles and Crusades has the easiest to understand combat system for monsters. Add HD to d20 roll, compare to AC. Super simple and takes milliseconds to comprehend.

It is the weakest part of the rules set. That one factor alone will keep it a niche game compared to things like OSE and C&C.

Quote from: Persimmon on September 09, 2023, 10:15:12 PM

Quote from: Brad on September 09, 2023, 09:35:11 AM

Quote from: RabidWookie on September 08, 2023, 06:13:16 PM
Did you have issues with original edition ACKS combat?

I absolutely HATE the way attacks work...a simple bonus-to-hit would have sufficed. I realize the intent is to make it allegedly easier to run, but yeah not for me.

Honestly, I think Castles and Crusades has the easiest to understand combat system for monsters. Add HD to d20 roll, compare to AC. Super simple and takes milliseconds to comprehend.

Yep; that was among the many reasons we've finally shifted over to C&C full-time.  Super easy and fast to run; tons of options, old school vibe.

Same with us.  Fast, lean with lots of options.  AND, can feel like the old days

Quote from: Brad on September 06, 2023, 09:55:03 AM

Quote from: tenbones on September 05, 2023, 01:09:17 PM
I'm going to venture this corollary...

You're correct here, but my point still stands: feelings are unassailable by logic. Also the whole "fetishization" of B/X is actually super amusing to me because I remember very vividly how we were called all sorts of names for playing Red Box instead of AD&D. So of course I moved to AD&D in 8th grade ASAP and we trashed the boxed sets immediately.

This whole obsession with B/X IS indeed rose colored glasses to some degree, as the number of AD&D players was astronomically higher when I was a kid. So again, you're right, but so am I: logic will not change their minds. A lot of this crap is just misremembering stuff and truly believing everyone was actually playing B/X using the AD&D books because they didn't use weapon speed and AC type. No, you were all playing AD&D, couldn't figure out that crap, so made the game simpler, and now retroactively decided it was actually B/X all along.

Late to the party, but you sum up my experience perfectly. Back in '83 got the Mentzer Red Box (like many fellow gen x'ers), immediately fell in love with the game, and still have fond memories of the introductory adventure (Aleena....so sad). But that was I think 6th grade, by 1984 was running AD&D games less than a year after picking up the basic set. That was the introductory game for kiddies you see. "Real Men" played AD&D. Never even touched another BECMI product until picking up the Rules Cyclopedia as a curiosity in '95 (was heavily into running 2nd Edition AD&D at the time).

So when the OSR movement picked up steam the last decade plus, was a bit confused as to why B/X became a "thing". Don't get me wrong, love B/X for its charm and simplicity, but I did not believe that all the gamers that grew up as I did were suddenly seeing B/X as the penultimate system of choice for OSR. Has to be nostalgia tainted with rose colored lenses. Still I like so many of the OSR products being released that I now have an entire bookshelf filled with OSR books of various stripes, mostly B/X clones of some type, several 1ed inspired games, and even great non-D&D OSR games such as MERP based Against the Darkmaster. Mainly these are owned for nostalgia purposes, have yet to get an OSR campaign up and running (so many other great modern RPGs I wish to get on the table as well).

Not hard to see why this is occurring though. Many Gen X gamers have a soft spot for the Mentzer set, just as many other Gen X'ers and boomers have fond memories of the older Holmes & Moldvay editions. I believe most of us may have got our start in the game with one of those sets then eventually moved into AD&D. SO now with so many of us having disposable incomes, combined with the fact that "modern" D&D (and TTRPGs in general) have taken such an extreme direction away from what we fondly remember, it is easy to see why OSR has exploded in general. Now we are seeing the downstream effect of hipsters and hangers-on, people who did not grow up with these rules jumping on the bandwagon (such as Shadowdark), which is usually a sign a movement has reached its nadir.

Quote from: Valhuen on September 10, 2023, 09:35:46 AM

Quote from: Brad on September 06, 2023, 09:55:03 AM

Quote from: tenbones on September 05, 2023, 01:09:17 PM
I'm going to venture this corollary...

You're correct here, but my point still stands: feelings are unassailable by logic. Also the whole "fetishization" of B/X is actually super amusing to me because I remember very vividly how we were called all sorts of names for playing Red Box instead of AD&D. So of course I moved to AD&D in 8th grade ASAP and we trashed the boxed sets immediately.

This whole obsession with B/X IS indeed rose colored glasses to some degree, as the number of AD&D players was astronomically higher when I was a kid. So again, you're right, but so am I: logic will not change their minds. A lot of this crap is just misremembering stuff and truly believing everyone was actually playing B/X using the AD&D books because they didn't use weapon speed and AC type. No, you were all playing AD&D, couldn't figure out that crap, so made the game simpler, and now retroactively decided it was actually B/X all along.

Late to the party, but you sum up my experience perfectly. Back in '83 got the Mentzer Red Box (like many fellow gen x'ers), immediately fell in love with the game, and still have fond memories of the introductory adventure (Aleena....so sad). But that was I think 6th grade, by 1984 was running AD&D games less than a year after picking up the basic set. That was the introductory game for kiddies you see. "Real Men" played AD&D. Never even touched another BECMI product until picking up the Rules Cyclopedia as a curiosity in '95 (was heavily into running 2nd Edition AD&D at the time).

So when the OSR movement picked up steam the last decade plus, was a bit confused as to why B/X became a "thing". Don't get me wrong, love B/X for its charm and simplicity, but I did not believe that all the gamers that grew up as I did were suddenly seeing B/X as the penultimate system of choice for OSR. Has to be nostalgia tainted with rose colored lenses. Still I like so many of the OSR products being released that I now have an entire bookshelf filled with OSR books of various stripes, mostly B/X clones of some type, several 1ed inspired games, and even great non-D&D OSR games such as MERP based Against the Darkmaster. Mainly these are owned for nostalgia purposes, have yet to get an OSR campaign up and running (so many other great modern RPGs I wish to get on the table as well).

Not hard to see why this is occurring though. Many Gen X gamers have a soft spot for the Mentzer set, just as many other Gen X'ers and boomers have fond memories of the older Holmes & Moldvay editions. I believe most of us may have got our start in the game with one of those sets then eventually moved into AD&D. SO now with so many of us having disposable incomes, combined with the fact that "modern" D&D (and TTRPGs in general) have taken such an extreme direction away from what we fondly remember, it is easy to see why OSR has exploded in general. Now we are seeing the downstream effect of hipsters and hangers-on, people who did not grow up with these rules jumping on the bandwagon (such as Shadowdark), which is usually a sign a movement has reached its nadir.

Good points.  It was pretty much the same where I grew up, in the suburbs of Cleveland, Ohio.  Got the Moldvay magenta box for Christmas in 1981.  Rolled up our first characters and started playing on New Year's Eve.  Within a couple months got the Cook expert set.  By late spring or early summer of 1982 we had the Monster Manual.  PHB, FF, and DMG followed that summer.  We played pretty much a hybrid of B/X & AD&D, though we thought we were playing AD&D.  However, when the Companion set dropped (I never owned the Mentzer B/X sets), I had one friend who was really into domain play and favored BEC (at that time), though he also played AD&D.  From that point I played both, but usually with different people.  This lasted about 5 years, but when the Gazetteers started coming out, I went back to BECMI (ca. 1988-93), with a bit of AD&D.  I never bought the 2nd edition rulebooks, though I picked up some of the monster supplements in the 1990s.  But in grad school (1990s) we mostly played MERP because we were all big Tolkien fans and didn't much like 2e.  I tried later editions of what they call D&D, but never liked any of them.  After playing other games and older versions of D&D sporadically, I discovered the OSR in 2016.  And it's always been strange to me that B/X clones and derivatives seem to dominate as it was definitely not the most popular game around me back in the day.  I assume, it's simply easier to learn, model, and build from.  I know from long experience that it's easier to run than AD&D, assuming you don't bring in all the options from the RC which make BECMI arguably the more complex game.  This is also why we likely have just the one dedicated BECMI/RC clone.