While I think it's too early to burn Sean Patrick Fannon at the stake, it sounds like he's fucked.  That's because he was doing fucked up shit repeatedly.  When more accusers come forward (and I'll bet you $1 that they will), denial time will go into damage control... which will eventually spiral into a godawful dumpster fire.

Yeah, Sean Patrick Fannon has had plenty of shitting things to say about me, Alpha Blue, and other stuff I care deeply about.  I am biased.  And I'm cautiously waiting, an individual amidst the mob, with matches in hand and flask of gasoline at my hip.

VS

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1036918No.  It does not.  It just means that multiple people are making accusations.  Until undeniable proof is shown, than that's all they are: Accusations.

I disagree. All JeremyR said was it becomes "more credible" when you have multiple sources saying the same thing. Not aht its undeniable proof, just more credible.

And he's right. On a scale of a credibility line that runs from "as not credible as possible" to "absolute proof",  multiple people saying the same thing about the same person moves you closer to the "absolute proof" end of that line and further from the "not credible at all" end.

Of course it's "accusations", but you use that word as if it means "just people saying stuff". It's not just "saying stuff", it's specific stuff, all about the same person, which is consistent with a pattern and practice of behavior over time. So it's not "absolute proof" of that behavior, but it's more than just "saying stuff". It's worth investigating to figure out if it's true, don't you agree?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1036924Linkage! Or cut and paste.

Link

Quote from: Mistwell;1037128I disagree. All JeremyR said was it becomes "more credible" when you have multiple sources saying the same thing. Not aht its undeniable proof, just more credible.

'Credible'?  Did they contact the police?  Was there an investigation done?  Because if not, then no, it's not credible, it's just a bunch of people screaming into the wind, UNTIL proof is released.  I believe in Due Process and Innocent, Until Proven Guilty, the two biggest processes that underpin the United States Justice system.  Maybe in your nation it's not that way, but over here in North America, it's supposed to be.

I'm personally interested in how this would go down if all the involved parties had to resolve this matter in meat space. Given what I've seen, I can't imagine a room with that much ugly in it.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1037135'Credible'?

Yes. More credible. Did I stutter?

Credible means, "able to be believed; convincing." Yes, when multiple people report the same thing, the accusation becomes MORE able to be believed and more convincing.

You understand the difference between "This is more convincing than before" and "This is proven to be truth", right?

What exactly is your objection to saying something is more credible if multiple witnesses report similar behavior over a period of time?

QuoteDid they contact the police?  Was there an investigation done?

Neither is required to make something "more credible". You appear to be absolutely convinced the words "more credible" mean "proven to be true". The more you continue to make an argument that the words "more credible" mean that, the less credible your position becomes. You understand now what I mean by less credible, right? It doesn't mean you're proven wrong, it means you become less believable over time as you appear to not understand the words you're arguing about

QuoteBecause if not, then no, it's not credible, it's just a bunch of people screaming into the wind, UNTIL proof is released.

"Credible" is not a black or white issue. It's not an on/off button. "Proven" is like that. "False" is like that. But "more credible" is a spectrum, not a black and white judgement. A scientist who specializes in cancer medicine is more credible on speaking about cancer treatments than a person who is neither a scientist nor a specialist in cancer medicines. That doesn't make the scientist "proven to be correct" it makes them MORE CREDIBLE on the topic. Are you getting it? Is this thing on?

QuoteI believe in Due Process and Innocent, Until Proven Guilty

So do I. If this comes to trial, I sure hope the jury and judge do as well.  Particularly since I'm an attorney.  However, as this is merely a discussion of opinions by laymen, we can talk about what we find to me more or less convincing as we're not a court of law and not bound by such requirements. We're not the justice system.  And even if we were, this is more a civil matter rather than a criminal one, in which case the entire standard is "51% sure". IE you make judgements about how convincing people are and you do not require "absolute proof" of fault.

So settle down Francis. We can discuss if we think something is more or less credible without a law book or absolute proof.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1037135'Credible'?  Did they contact the police?  Was there an investigation done?  Because if not, then no, it's not credible, it's just a bunch of people screaming into the wind, UNTIL proof is released.  I believe in Due Process and Innocent, Until Proven Guilty, the two biggest processes that underpin the United States Justice system.  Maybe in your nation it's not that way, but over here in North America, it's supposed to be.

Sexual harrassment is not a crime in the U.S. yet (thankfully) See also: First amendment. Apparently you can still tell a girl she is hot whether she asked or not but that does appear to be where society is headed as a whole.

As long as he did not touch anyone inappropriately and everyone was of age, he just acted like a Jack Ass. Do the police need to investigate every jack ass in the country?

Your under reaction is almost as bad as the SJW over reaction.

I think a slime ball got caught hitting on chicks (while apparently engaged to another lady, and spreading images of her lady parts by his own slimy admission) by another slime ball "acting" as a journalist in a world where slime balls of all types think they can tell everyone what to say and think.

It's not the crime of the century until they make free speech illegal. Give it a few years then you can call the cops.

Quote from: VengerSatanis;1037108Yeah, Sean Patrick Fannon has had plenty of shitting things to say about me, Alpha Blue, and other stuff I care deeply about.  I am biased.  

Explain. Link. Detail.

Quote from: VengerSatanis;1037108And I'm cautiously waiting, an individual amidst the mob, with matches in hand and flask of gasoline at my hip.

Some wizard you are!

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1037135I believe in Due Process and Innocent, Until Proven Guilty, the two biggest processes that underpin the United States Justice system

SPF did not break any laws. There isn't any assault here. It's not even harassment by legal definition. The allegations amount to "dude without game may have creeped on some women" and he claims that some of the women sought out his attention. Even if every accusation is true, there is nothing illegal here. Thus, the Mob has nowhere to go for revenge other than the Court of Public Opinion where there is no Due Process and its all destruction of reputation by innuendo and lies.

The only recourse against the Mob would be SPF going on a legal offensive. But his Farcebook post is wimp noise so expect more wimpering.

Quote from: Mistwell;1037137Yes. More credible. Did I stutter?

Credible means, "able to be believed; convincing." Yes, when multiple people report the same thing, the accusation becomes MORE able to be believed and more convincing.

But they weren't reporting the same thing. SPF is being accused of three different things:

• Sharing explicit photos featuring himself and another woman, with the continued suggestion that the woman participate.
• Pressuring a woman for hugs after she said no.
• Leering at a woman's cleavage, making lewd comments, including suggestive sounds.

Unless by "the same thing" you mean something about his character (e.g. "being a sexist jerk") rather than actual acts.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1037135'Credible'?  Did they contact the police?  Was there an investigation done?  Because if not, then no, it's not credible, it's just a bunch of people screaming into the wind, UNTIL proof is released.  I believe in Due Process and Innocent, Until Proven Guilty, the two biggest processes that underpin the United States Justice system.  Maybe in your nation it's not that way, but over here in North America, it's supposed to be.

Even in the U.S., there are a ton of things that are never determined in a court of law that nevertheless have an effect on people's careers. Here on this board we've had a bunch of threads with accusations of people mishandling Kickstarter money, for example - without any criminal conviction.

I believe in innocent until proven guilty as far as criminal penalties go. However, there are things that are not criminal behavior that will influence my purchases - like screwing over their employees or Kickstarter backers, for example, delivering shoddy product or late product, etc. I don't care much about an author's politics (within reasonable bounds), but if they are an extraordinary asshole and/or unprofessional, then that can influence me. I think of the private message tirade that Frank Mentzer supposedly gave on Dragonsfoot, for example. (ref)  I didn't look that much into it, but if I was thinking of purchasing from him, that might have influenced me.

Quote from: Aglondir;1037166But they weren't reporting the same thing. SPF is being accused of three different things:

• Sharing explicit photos featuring himself and another woman, with the continued suggestion that the woman participate.
• Pressuring a woman for hugs after she said no.
• Leering at a woman's cleavage, making lewd comments, including suggestive sounds.

Unless by "the same thing" you mean something about his character (e.g. "being a sexist jerk") rather than actual acts.

I mean (as I said in the part you cut) a pattern and practice of roughly similar behavior towards women at conventions or convention-like events. Which...I think you understood.  The combined reports are more compelling than each report taken in isolation.  They provide a more meaningful context.

I again question why a MAN had to write the hit piece when WOMEN had these concerns.

What happened to our grand age of female empowerment?

Quote from: jhkim;1037171Here on this board we've had a bunch of threads with accusations of people mishandling Kickstarter money, for example - without any criminal conviction.

Financial fraud are generally civil actions, not criminal. The Federal Trade Commission did launch and settle a lawsuit against a KS creator.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/06/crowdfunding-project-creator-settles-ftc-charges-deception

Also, in the case of KS, the accusations are pretty solid. Did you pledge? Did you get what you pledged for? If not, was the creator transparent about where the money went? I smell bullshit in the FanCon KS because $350k allegedly vanished and backers had to learn about the KS failure via their hotel cancellations. Palladium's Robotech KS is not fraud, its just horrible mismanagement and bad communication.

Quote from: jhkim;1037171I believe in innocent until proven guilty as far as criminal penalties go. However, there are things that are not criminal behavior that will influence my purchases

That is understandable. We vote with our wallets and we validate with our purchases. However, there are plenty of Hollywoodites I find abhorrent, but I either separate Creator from Created or I don't go to movies anymore. And yes, I am aware that my dollars support their continued abhorrent behavior.

Let's say SPF is a creepy dude. Does that mean all Pinnacle product or Savage Rifts product deserve boycotting? Must Pinnacle fire SPF for his actions outside of work? And what if SPF is telling the truth that his perving was consensual until he choose to not continue the dalliance?

Also, isn't all this panic over guys trying to hook up rather Victorian and puritanical?

So this is nothing more than a bullying campaign again, because the guy in question is not considered socially acceptable.  And people say High School is over.

Sean Patrick Fannon wrote "#MeToo is important – vital, as far as I am concerned – to our evolution as a species."

I'm pretty sure that is NOT how evolution works Mr. Fannon.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1037189Let's say SPF is a creepy dude. Does that mean all Pinnacle product or Savage Rifts product deserve boycotting?

It's already started. The Purple Paladins aren't happy with the "Not good enough" reponse by Pinnacle:

Quote from: Pinnacle COOGiven Sean's many projects for Evil Beagle and the need to respond appropriately to allegations of harassment made on ENWorld, Sean has stepped down as Savage Rifts® Brand Manager. He will continue to edit the rules sections he's been so integral to and the rest of the team is carrying on and consulting with Sean as needed.

Sean has been a personal friend of ours for a long time and we hope for positive and useful progress for all involved.

https://www.pegforum.com/forum/main-forum/9095-savage-rifts%C2%AE-changes-in-duties