Dude, no one really cares if you feel like you have to have the most powerful character.

I just finished the Next Vault of the Dragonlich session at my FLGS.  I played a dwarf paladin who sacrificed himself so the rest of the party had enough of a head start to leave after getting the staff.

I would have had a pretty good time, except for "that guy".  You know who he is.  He's been around since day 1, regardless of edition.  He's the guy who sits as far away from the DM and keeps pushing just how much he can get away with, cheating wise.  With Next, and most people not as familiar with the most recent playtest package, it's like heaven for "that guy".  I was a player, so I didn't feel like it was my place to keep calling out his BS.  After the first couple times, I figured I'd let the DM do it if he felt so inclined.

Here's the stuff "that guy" would do.  He's the type of guy who absolutely had to make sure his character was the most powerful, and that his character had to be not only involved, but leading the way in everything, from combat to interaction to exploration.  "That guy" never realizes that it's a social game, and everyone else isn't there to cater to his fun.

Anyway, he was an elf 4th level ranger.  His own character, not a pre gen like the rest of us (flag #1).  First attempts at manipulation and cheating:

* tried to use cure wounds as a ranged spell (it's touch)
* said that magic items automatically return to you when thrown
* never rolled below an 18 for anything, but no one saw his dice at first
* said he had the spring attack feat and longstrider spell, telling everyone it allowed him to double his movement (it doesn't.  each only adds 10 feet).  So he would basically move in, attack, and move out of range every round.

Then, when people no longer noticed those, he started to
* add a d8 and a d6 to all of his d20 rolls for god knows what reason.  He didn't have any ability that allows that
* always rolled with advantage and skill dice on a half dozen skills (it's impossible for him to have skills in spot, listen, arcana, persuade, and a few others)
* somehow had the hide in shadows feat, open locks feat, disarm traps feat, spring attack feat, and weapon mastery feat---all as a 4th level ranger
* used his favored enemy skills on both giants and dragons


And a bunch more.  Anyway, this type of guy drains the fun from the whole group.  Normally I'd expect the DM to address this, but he was really busy, and none of us gamed with each other before, and it was for only a 3 hour session.  He clearly was just making up rules as he went along to give him extra bonuses.

But man, these people really suck, and it makes me glad for the group I have.  No, his cheating wasn't detrimental towards my character at all, but it really saps the fun when you have "that guy" at the table.  I'd almost prefer catpiss man

Yeah. For a 3-hour game I would just not care. It's kind of pathetic, when you think about it. I'd pity him silently, in fact.

In some past games I played in with a similar "that guy", the DM ended up announcing "that guy" didn't have to roll any dice anymore.  Everything was an automatic glowing success.

Kinda funny watching such players, playing in "god mode".

 :popcorn:

Much tougher to handle as a player, especially amongst strangers. I would probably have tried a light hearted call out or disguised it as a question. "How come you get to add dice to your attack roll?"

But yeah it's the DMs job not the I would blame them this case because everyone was unfamiliar with he rules.

Like with poker the best advice for dealing with cheaters is not to play with them.

I just can't fathom why a person would cheat in an RPG.

He wants attention. Ignore him from now on.

Quote from: beejazz;662764I just can't fathom why a person would cheat in an RPG.

Yeah, that's baffling for me too.  It's not like it's just one roll here and there.  It was literally in every aspect of the game.  I can't figure out why a guy in his 40s still feels the need to be the special snowflake and prove to the other players that his character is just sooooo awesome!  There were at least a half dozen times when he would comment about that too.  

"My ranger is awesome, isn't he!"
"Thank God my ranger is here."


The guy across from me and I would just roll our eyes.  I mentioned how my paladin sacrificed himself for the rest of the group at the end?  To be honest, it was less of me being noble, and more of, "Ok dude, obviously your ego needs to be the hero here, knock yourself out."

Quote from: Sacrosanct;662770I can't figure out why a guy in his 40s still feels the need to be the special snowflake and prove to the other players that his character is just sooooo awesome!  There were at least a half dozen times when he would comment about that too.  

"My ranger is awesome, isn't he!"
"Thank God my ranger is here."

Wonder if this guy also likes to play video games in "god mode" and/or using cheat codes.

This sort of person, at my game table, gets one warning. Repeat offenders don't get invited for the following session.

Quote from: ggroy;662773Wonder if this guy also likes to play video games in "god mode" and/or using cheat codes.

Only if there were other people there for him to show how awesome he was.  Seriously, I got that total vibe from him.  Luckily, it was a blind group, and only 3 hours.  If I have my way, I won't game with him ever again.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;662776Only if there were other people there for him to show how awesome he was.  Seriously, I got that total vibe from him.  Luckily, it was a blind group, and only 3 hours.  If I have my way, I won't game with him ever again.

If this type of person wasn't a gamer, how do you think his personality would manifest in other parts of his life?

I play with someone who cheats on their dice. The GM will make some sort of "perhaps it's going to be time to roll dice in a few seconds" comment, they'll chuck whatever dice are appropriate for the game, and either keep them for the actual check (When they find out what it is) or will say something like "Now I know what I'm actually rolling for".

It pisses me the fuck off, because it's so resolutely from a "I must succeed all the time!" mentality, and nobody calls them on it (And, admittedly, that "nobody" includes me) due to the session-destroying strop it would cause.

Now, I usually like playing with this player because they're usually quite good fun, but I've got a list of things that will cause a session-killing strop (And can all actually be boiled down to "not getting to be the dazzlingly successful center of attention"). We shouldn't be there to "win", we should be there to "play", and if we win, great, if not, also great, just a bit less so. Gives us a reason to come back next time.

Er, rant over. People who cheat at dice are bad people. That is all.

I've played with a guy who covers his dice when he rolls and does a damn good job of killing everything and being awesome at everything. When I DM, I chide him about being shy with his dice. I've also gone to great lengths to praise and reward the players who fail. We've got one guy who is really active and always trying to do stuff that will entertain everyone at the table. He fails. A lot. And I make sure he gets plenty of attention from me and NPCs and the other players. This seems to have made the cheater a little less successful, which I try to reward. He has started to fail more often and even seems to be playing mostly honest when other guys GM, too.

But I spent a long time agonizing over how to deal with this problem short of just calling him out for it.

He still, however, tries his damnedest to break every game we play, trying to make an uber character. He even talks with pride about breaking other games and finding different ways to further break games. I have no idea how to fix that problem, because as opposed to cheating, which I understand (makes him successful), I just can't wrap my head around wanting to break games.

I find that the further away a player is from the DM the better his rolls tend to be.  That's why I make sure everyone rolls in view of me when I DM.  For some people the temptation is just too great.

Quote from: Kaz;662786He even talks with pride about breaking other games and finding different ways to further break games.

I just can't wrap my head around wanting to break games.

For some people, it is a personal challenge.

In some niches unrelated to rpg games, I look for ways to circumvent or completely break a system.  Mostly an intellectual challenge.