characters dont need backstorys, they need personalitys

Nexus · May 20, 2015, 11:30:39 PM

Quote from: Gabriel2;832488Backstory should inform and support personality.

Agreed. For me, some form of backstory is needed to have a personality that feels coherent and, for lack of a better word, real. It doesn't have to be a novel but some understand of where the character came from before the opening credits (so to speak) helps for me. As a gm I like backstories. They help tie the characters into the setting and premise, give me some clue what the players might find interesting and engrossing while allowing to them contribute to the creative process of generating the setting by adding their own personal bits of history, plot hooks, npcs and general stuff.

mAcular Chaotic · May 20, 2015, 11:48:03 PM

I've seen more players succeeding with a small backstory than a long one.

What always happens when someone gives me like a 20 page backstory is that they get overly attached to it and the character itself becomes calcified, too defined already to bend enough to fit with the whims of the party.

You need wiggle room when you play to end up justifying your character going on whatever quests turn up. But you can't do that if 100% of that room is already set in stone.

Daztur · May 21, 2015, 12:21:46 AM

Quote from: Michael Gray;832492I would say that, most times, they don't even need a personality. They just need to ACT (and not in the theatrical sense). Personality can be filled in at the table

I'll sign on to this. To make an interesting character think of a few stock situations for the sort of campaign this character is going to be in and brainstorm what that character would do in those situations. If you can come up with interesting answers to those questions you're good to go if you can't you need to brainstorm a bit more.

Also staying open to having your character's quirks and personality be shaped by what happens at the table is really important as having their actions be based on stuff that happened at the table feels a lot more real than having their actions be based off of stuff you made up before the gave ever started.

For example one of my dwarf character's goofy affectations was a giant golden cow bell he wore because TWICE he was on guard duty and got jumped by ghouls and knocked out so he vowed to get a cowbell big enough that him being knocked out would always alert the party in the future and we wore the damn thing everywhere.

tuypo1 · May 21, 2015, 12:37:16 AM

oh wow i was not expecting this much of a response i will make sure to take some time to write up a proper full length statment.

GeekEclectic · May 21, 2015, 01:11:32 AM

I think it's obvious that how the character is played and presented at the table -- what I take to be what the OP meant by personality -- is more important than any backstory.

That said, as long as it's not too extensive, I actually do prefer, when I GM, for the players to have at least some backstory elements established. My go-to when I ask for it are the following, though I will modify the list if any of the questions aren't relevant to the current game/setting/genre. But more often than not, this list serves me well.

1. Family and home life. Not the entire family tree, of course. Just a few relatives of particular importance to the character, if they're on good terms with those relatives, and if not, why not.
2. A couple debts/obligations/ambitions outside of the PCs. This may or may not intersect with #1.
3. How you relate to some of the other PCs. Not all of the details, and not all of the PCs(unless it's a very small group), but at least something that ties you to 1 or 2 of the other PCs. And if it's a party-focused game, I usually want to know why you're working together. If the players haven't worked this out before the first session, I'll generally spend a few minutes on getting them to do so together.

But as I said, the list isn't perfect for every game/setting/genre, but in general it serves me well. The last part of #3, for example(and perhaps the entire thing, depending), wouldn't be useful in a game where the party is brought together by a third party at the beginning of the adventure. I wouldn't run such a game, but I've played in that sort before, so I know my list has limits and exceptions.

Quote from: Michael Gray;832492I would say that, most times, they don't even need a personality. They just need to ACT

I agree with some reservations. Action is certainly more important that just about anything else, but I don't think it trumps personality so much as to make the latter unnecessary. I can only take so much of a blank or super passive character before I have to let someone know that I don't think they mesh with me.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;832594What always happens when someone gives me like a 20 page backstory is that they get overly attached to it and the character itself becomes calcified, too defined already to bend enough to fit with the whims of the party.

Amen. I actually have a gaming friend who has a couple of go-to characters with extensive backgrounds already written up, which leads to certain kinds of inflexibility, definitely. It doesn't always come up, but when it does it can be a little frustrating.

mAcular Chaotic · May 21, 2015, 01:42:50 AM

Quote from: GeekEclectic;832601Amen. I actually have a gaming friend who has a couple of go-to characters with extensive backgrounds already written up, which leads to certain kinds of inflexibility, definitely. It doesn't always come up, but when it does it can be a little frustrating.

I have one player who loves writing backstory. He roleplays in good faith, but he ends up getting caught on "my character wouldn't do that" legitimately because he fleshed out so much of the character and he just ends up not fitting with what the party's goals are. Even though he WANTS to go with the party, he can't figure out a way to justify it. So he has this problem every time, and his character always dies in like the first fight or leaves the party because he can't get his character to associate with the group.

Ravenswing · May 21, 2015, 06:35:47 PM

I've a standard rant about backstories, but I can summarize.

For my part, I love them. From a new player, it tells me that he or she is likely to be a strong roleplayer, certain to view the character as more than a piece on a chessboard. They provide plothooks, they provide motivations, they make it easier to introduce NPCs, they're good for getting past the awkward "Why in the heck do these people want to adventure together?" They aid me in helping the players create their characters - standards like "I'm an ex-gladiator who bought his freedom" and "The king ordered the murder of my parents" suggest skill sets, advantages and disadvantages obvious to many.

What's that you say, what happens in play is more important? I agree. But of how many of us can't that be said, in real life? That we're changed by our experiences doesn't mean our pasts don't matter. If we were to sit down at a coffee house and get to know one another, how many of you would respond with "What I've done, what I've seen, what's happened to me, who I am; none of that matters worth a damn. All any of you need to know about me is what you observe from this moment forward."

To which I'd likely respond with an "Ooookay" and back slooowly towards the exit, hoping that the next new person I met wasn't quite so much of a whackjob.

Ravenswing · May 21, 2015, 06:41:17 PM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;832604I have one player who loves writing backstory. He roleplays in good faith, but he ends up getting caught on "my character wouldn't do that" legitimately because he fleshed out so much of the character and he just ends up not fitting with what the party's goals are. Even though he WANTS to go with the party, he can't figure out a way to justify it. So he has this problem every time, and his character always dies in like the first fight or leaves the party because he can't get his character to associate with the group.

Okay, but so what?

I don't mean to pick on you, since this is one of several "Some gamer I know did backstories wrong so that means the concept sucks" posts. But seriously: just because there are morons who react to every stimuli around a table by swinging a sword doesn't mean that combat is screwed up. Just because someone you know plays mages "wrong" doesn't mean we shouldn't have magic systems. Just because there's that tool who always wants to play a LSN doesn't require a blanket ban on cross-gender characters.

And so on. We should all be grown up enough to recognize that there's a difference between a concept and a concept done badly.

snooggums · May 21, 2015, 06:49:07 PM

Quote from: Gabriel2;832488Backstory should inform and support personality.

That was always my understanding of why characters had backstories.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;832497What was that Gygax quote again?
"Backstory? The first three levels are your backstory."

This makes sense when characters have a high mortality rate for the first few levels, so the first few games will be played before a player decides to be invested in the character. Games where characters are competent from level 1 do benefit from having some idea of personality from the start, if the group cares about that kind of thing.

Bren · May 21, 2015, 07:54:10 PM

PC orphans with no family, no friends, no home, and no past don’t thrill me. Neither does reading pages of fiction.

I would like players to know a bit about where their PC comes from and how their PC connects to the other PCs. Usually that can be done in at most a few sentences. One format that works for me is a paragraph or two of text that bolds or underlines the significant people, places, or events in the PC’s backstory so that I can quickly key in on what is supposed to be important.

It shouldn’t need to be said, but it does. The character’s backstory should fit with their current capability. You aren’t writing bad fan fiction so don’t make your PC the hero of Thunder Pass if his stats don’t support him being a hero. The expectation is that better or more interesting days are ahead for the PCs, not that their greatest actions were all in their past before play even started.

Spoiler

Backstory: Gaston Thibeault was born in Amiens, Picardy in 1592, Gaston is the only son of a cloth merchant Hugo Thibeault. His mother was killed during the Spanish capture of Amiens in 1597. After this his father moved Gaston and his sister Marie to Paris. In 1607 Gaston ran away to find fortune and glory as a soldier. He joined the Picardy Musketeers (one of the Regiments that retook Amiens) where he met Jehan Legrand, a fellow Picard. After the death of the old King, the Picardy Musketeers were demobilized and Gaston headed to Italy to become a mercenary where he gained his love of poetry and first learned the Italian dueling style, from Maestro Giovanni Cantigliare.

In 1618 he joined the 2,000 men sent by the Duke of Savoy under Ernst von Manfeld to aid the Bohemians – to victory at the Siege of Pilsen and to defeat at the Battle of Zablati (Sablat). Gaston continued to serve the Bohemians after von Mansfeld’s departure – to victory at Wisternitz and to disastrous defeat at White Mountain against the Spanish-Imperial forces led by the Count of Tilly. Gaston’s main gauche is actually a vizcaina taken from the body of a Spanish Don that he killed during the battle. After White Mountain, Gaston returned to France and rejoined his regiment where he was reunited with his old friend Legrand. Together they fought for the young Louis XIII in the First Huguenot Rebellion where, as a sergeant-in the Picardy Musketeers, Gaston took a brave young cadet, Lucien DeBourges (a PC), under his wing. While briefly under the Duc d’Elbeuf’s command, Gaston met Honorat de Bueil, seigneur de Racan and found that he and de Racan shared a love of poetry. Now back in Paris, Gaston works as a sword for hire, continues his study of the Italian or Florentine style at a dueling salle, Fraternity Sainte-Didier, under the tutelage of Maitre St. Pierre, and, in his spare time, he writes poetry – Gaston thinks of himself as a warrior-poet.

Personality: His years as a soldier throughout Europe have made Gaston somewhat cynical and hard-bitten though he still cannot resist either a pretty face or the siren call of glory. In combat, Gaston is an unshakeable, tenacious soldier. Despite his common birth, he aspires to one day become an officer and to lead men in battle. Gaston is arrogant – looking down on those cowards and popinjays have not been soldiers as well as on those unfortunates who were not blessed by God to have been born French. Gaston has a prickly sense of honor and is possessed of a fierce temper – which often causes him trouble. He can be said to be neither too honest nor too religious though his loyalty to his friends and comrades is unquestioned.

GamingGrl · May 21, 2015, 09:41:58 PM

I think that sometimes a back story can help a player develop their character's personality better but I agree that personality is more important than a back story.

Xavier Onassiss · May 21, 2015, 09:53:09 PM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;832604I have one player who loves writing backstory. He roleplays in good faith, but he ends up getting caught on "my character wouldn't do that" legitimately because he fleshed out so much of the character and he just ends up not fitting with what the party's goals are. Even though he WANTS to go with the party, he can't figure out a way to justify it. So he has this problem every time, and his character always dies in like the first fight or leaves the party because he can't get his character to associate with the group.

I had a former player who did the "my character wouldn't do that" thing all the damn time, and his character didn't really have a backstory.

And on the flip side, I've had players who wrote long-ish backstories who never caused issues like that.

In my experience this is more of a player problem than a backstory problem.

Bren · May 21, 2015, 11:57:04 PM

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;832767In my experience this is more of a player problem than a backstory problem.

And the excuse might be backstory or alignment.

mAcular Chaotic · May 22, 2015, 01:25:09 AM

Quote from: Ravenswing;832728Okay, but so what?

I don't mean to pick on you, since this is one of several "Some gamer I know did backstories wrong so that means the concept sucks" posts. But seriously: just because there are morons who react to every stimuli around a table by swinging a sword doesn't mean that combat is screwed up. Just because someone you know plays mages "wrong" doesn't mean we shouldn't have magic systems. Just because there's that tool who always wants to play a LSN doesn't require a blanket ban on cross-gender characters.

And so on. We should all be grown up enough to recognize that there's a difference between a concept and a concept done badly.

I never said the concept sucked. My anecodate was to point out some traps you could fall into when writing your backstory so you could avoid them.

Ravenswing · May 22, 2015, 02:07:12 AM

Quote from: Bren;832781And the excuse might be backstory or alignment.

Hell, the number of times a player's been troublesome with "My character wouldn't do that" because of alignment has to outnumber the times it's happened because of a backstory about a thousand to one.